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Da Boss wrote:I'm hoping the Plague and the Bugs really blow me out of the water.


I get the nagging feeling that the Plague is going to be something like a Corp soldier with a zombie head

 
   
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I know what you mean. I'm dreading seeing the two man ghoul sprue (which is great for KoW, don't get me wrong) with guns instead of cleavers.



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Da Boss wrote:Veer-myn: Well, I dislike the concept, the minis do nothing for me, and I don't see it going anywhere exciting. Space rats. On ships. Why is this an army? Where's the galactic space opera drama with...space rats? I can hardly see a colony going "OH NO, SPACE RATS!". No. Definitely loss.

I agree with this. At least the Orx only look like Space Hobos. Rats becoming anthromorphic rats just means they've got less places to hide, which means you've just removed the one trait most likely to save them from extinction.

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Hang on, they keep calling them space mice the 8th race, are we skipping a few in between or did Mantic lie about their math test results?

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BrookM wrote:Hang on, they keep calling them space mice the 8th race, are we skipping a few in between or did Mantic lie about their math test results?

It's marketing BS. They were going on like one of their races was a super-special secret to build up hype. Then they turned out to be fething ratmen.

There are seven other factions, but the Eighth Race jumped the queue.

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Da Boss wrote: Space rats. On ships. Why is this an army?

Because it is a rejected GW project of the early 90s: Hrud were commonly imagined as Space Rats. Like Chaos Dwarfs, Squats, Lost and the Damned, Space Hulk, Gorkamorka and soon Bloodbowl, Mantic slavishly follows all neglected GW projects of that time, until they decide to make their first original concept. It is a wonder that they haven't released Greatcoats, Zoats and AdMech yet, but probably that's races 9-11

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/18 22:45:32


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If this thread demonstrates one thing, it's that everyone seems to have a different stick that they want to beat Mantic with. To take Da Boss's hypothetical, what if Mantic had released a new AI race of intelligent robots? The forums would be awash with cries of 'Necron rip offs lol'. At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced. What more can they do? They have to tread a fine line between originality yet while still appealing to customers of the elephant in the room.

To be honest, if they had come out with 8 entirely new and original races, this thread would be full of people applauding them for originality and daring whilst at the same time not buying any product.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/18 22:47:28


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filbert wrote:If this thread demonstrates one thing, it's that everyone seems to have a different stick that they want to beat Mantic with.

It's kind of like the story of the blind men and the elephant. Just because someone only attacks one decision at a time does not mean that the total argument is incoherent.

To take Da Boss's hypothetical, what if Mantic had released a new AI race of intelligent robots? The forums would be awash with cries of 'Necron rip offs lol'.

There's AI and then there's AI. If they made a race of omnicidal, humanoid robots, then yes, they'd be called Necron ripoffs (and rightly so). But nobody would call the Tachikoma a Necron ripoff, and that's just one example of a non-Necron-like AI.

At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced. What more can they do? They have to tread a fine line between originality yet while still appealing to customers of the elephant in the room.

There are more ways than one that their models could be like GW models, and they've got an irritating habit of picking precisely the wrong ones.

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Filbert, I see where you're coming from, but I guess I can't express my view on the Veermyn in any way other than the way I have. I think they are incredibly lame.

I think that is the issue most people have with them - not that they're GW rip offs, I don't have an issue with that. I recommend mantic products to new players (and especially kids that I know don't play in GW stores) regularly, because they are great value for money. I really want Mantic to succeed and still be around 5 years from now.

I just think they make some dumb decisions sometimes and it makes me worried that they're going to flop.



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filbert wrote: At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced.

Squats, Gorkamorka themed Orks, Elysian Guard, Hrud, a Space Hulk and a Nurgle and bug race announced. Guess I missed the 50% not direct analogies

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To be fair, he said "currently" produced in both warpath and 40k

Although afterwards it'll be less than 50%

 
   
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Kroothawk wrote:
filbert wrote: At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced.

Squats, Gorkamorka themed Orks, Elysian Guard, Hrud, a Space Hulk and a Nurgle and bug race announced. Guess I missed the 50% not direct analogies


I read that and got a angry feeling of "who's this blind guy", they i saw it was you and laughed...

One day mantic will do a human army composed of soldiers in breatplate and chainmal holding halberds, kroot will come here and say "that is obvious a GW hip off, we all know GW inventend foot soldiers in breat plate holding halberds..."

If you take a look at 40k, what GW left for other companies to use? Serious, aparently they alredy used everything sci-fi have to offer... If even an army of half cyborg zombies will be called "nurgle" (I call it BORG, but im a trekkie).

If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
My take on Demiurgs (enjoy the reading):
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The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If you take a look at 40k, what GW left for other companies to use?

Here's an easy one: stick the humans in the Tau slot, with hovertanks, exo-suits, UAVs and battle rifles. They'd still sell to Guard players, but also sell to people wanting a counts-as Tau army. Give them female infantry as a plastic kit, and you've also got the players annoyed at GW's treatment of the Sisters of Battle.

That's one army that appeals to three times as many players, and is fully compatible with 40k without being a straight copy.

If even an army of half cyborg zombies will be called "nurgle" (I call it BORG, but im a trekkie).

Technological necromancy is Adeptus Mechanicus, not Nurgle. Get your facts straight.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/19 02:48:51


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AlexHolker wrote:
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If you take a look at 40k, what GW left for other companies to use?

Here's an easy one: stick the humans in the Tau slot, with hovertanks, exo-suits, UAVs and battle rifles. They'd still sell to Guard players, but also sell to people wanting a counts-as Tau army. Give them female infantry as a plastic kit, and you've also got the players annoyed at GW's treatment of the Sisters of Battle.

That's one army that appeals to three times as many players, and is fully compatible with 40k without being a straight copy.

If even an army of half cyborg zombies will be called "nurgle" (I call it BORG, but im a trekkie).

Technological necromancy is Adeptus Mechanicus, not Nurgle. Get your facts straight.


lol, thanks

Mantic just made half that (Corporation can be used as Tau...) And they will probably do the exo suits in the future (there will be some type of "space marines" in exosuits).

Thanks for the ideia, i think now i have some reason to spend money on corporation

If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
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I can`t think of any other manufacturer making space rats, so they are in fact filling an untapped demand.

Whether or not they`re `ripping off`an unusedéd and unconfirmed concept that another manufacturer may or may not have developed a decade ago is irrelevant. Not to mention that every concept GW has ever had was ripped off from somebody else.

And if you`re disappointed because you bought into some sort of self-generated hype bout this new race being a completely original, mindblowing new direction for science fiction, well, then, you`re just a tool.
   
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Kroothawk wrote:
filbert wrote: At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced.

Squats, Gorkamorka themed Orks, Elysian Guard, Hrud, a Space Hulk and a Nurgle and bug race announced. Guess I missed the 50% not direct analogies


How is this any different then all the other parasite companies (Chapterhouse, etc.) riding GW 's IP and shilling there stuff here on Dakka regularly?

Lets not pretend this is new or in any way shocking...




 
   
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CT GAMER wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
filbert wrote: At least with 50% of their Warpath range so far, they don't have any direct GW 40K analogy currently produced.

Squats, Gorkamorka themed Orks, Elysian Guard, Hrud, a Space Hulk and a Nurgle and bug race announced. Guess I missed the 50% not direct analogies


How is this any different then all the other parasite companies (Chapterhouse, etc.) riding GW 's IP and shilling there stuff here on Dakka regularly?

Lets not pretend this is new or in any way shocking...


You used a two big scary concepts here, and wrongly... First, they are not parasites, second, they are not riding GWs Ip...

Chapter House dont act as parasites, at least i never heard of GW asking them to remove anything from their site... And the last time, not even GW knew to point how they had infringed they IP. It is not their fault if GW make books and let some models undone... They just see a market possibilitie and act on it. Is Gogle a parasite on Microsoft?

And yeas, Mantic act in a VERY diferent way, their products are intended to be alternatives to GW, but they never have been copies, and never had infringed GW IP. Orcs, Dwarfs, and Ratmans are a very commonplace in fantasy, maybe we dont see much fantasy on space those days.

Im not a GW Hater anymore, but guys, sometimes you act as GW blinded...

If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
My take on Demiurgs (enjoy the reading):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537654.page
Please, if you think im wrong, correct me (i will try to take it constructively). 
   
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Fetterkey wrote:
Chaplain Pallantide wrote:@Polonius: Never mind Fetterkey, he's a GW fanboy to the max, so anything that comes near the greatness that is GW, he knocks...


That's not the case. I like a lot of things GW does, but there are things about other manufacturers that I like too. I'm a big fan of Darkson Designs' AE-WWII line, for instance. Dystopian Wars isn't my cup of tea, but I think they've pulled off what they do quite well. I would like to try out Infinity, but nobody really plays it in my area. The key thing that all those other systems have that Mantic's systems don't is that they are credible as standalone systems. Mantic quite frankly isn't. Their "Corporation" troopers are probably their strongest independent line, but even still the GW influence is obvious.

When I see a Mantic model I think "ah, some not-Skaven or not-Squats or not-Orks." I don't even know the real names of the Mantic lines-- I think the not-squats are "Forgefathers" but I'm blanking on the others. To me, that's a major problem. I really enjoy the narrative elements of the hobby, and when I don't even think of the models as representing what they're supposed to, there's no way I'm going to get into the game. In order for Mantic to get my money as an actual competitor to 40k, they would have to do substantially better than GW on at least one of the following:

1) Models
2) Rules
3) Fluff

Their models are worse, albeit cheap, their rules are worse, and their fluff is more or less nonexistent.

I don't necessarily blame them-- it's really hard to compete with a big, established "elephant in the room" like GW, which is why most of the companies that offer alternative games choose markedly different settings, like the pulp/Hellboy feel of AE-WWII, the "steampunk Epic" of Dystopian Wars, or the cyberpunk skirmish of Infinity. I'm just saying that Mantic has done nothing to demonstrate that they're anything other than a GW knockoff company.

When you get right down to it, if GW went out of business, Mantic would too.

That is sort of the case.

The case being you felt GW have any originality in what you consider Mantics to be knock off of.
For the rest of us that knows GW knocks off generic fantasy / sci fi line, and Mantic does the same,
you would stop comparing the 2....

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CT GAMER wrote:How is this any different then all the other parasite companies (Chapterhouse, etc.) riding GW 's IP and shilling there stuff here on Dakka regularly?

I don't hate what Mantic does out of loyalty to GW, quite the opposite. I've been waiting for ten years for GW to make an army I want to buy, and by choosing to follow in GW's rut Mantic ensures that they won't make that wait any shorter.

Chapterhouse simply isn't a player at that level, so nothing they do can disappoint me.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Mantic just made half that (Corporation can be used as Tau...)

Only the same way Guard can be used as Tau. I'm talking about making a deliberate effort to make their humans be more than an Imperial Guard expy.

And they will probably do the exo suits in the future (there will be some type of "space marines" in exosuits).

That's not what I mean by exosuits. I mean things like Landmates, not just power armour.

Thanks for the ideia, i think now i have some reason to spend money on corporation

You're just saying that to annoy me, aren't you?

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The Dwarf Wolf wrote:If you take a look at 40k, what GW left for other companies to use? Serious, aparently they alredy used everything sci-fi have to offer... If even an army of half cyborg zombies will be called "nurgle" (I call it BORG, but im a trekkie).


We dont need to look at GW to know whats cool.

When I first heard of Mantic making "Corporation" I immediately thought YES ONI CORPS!


and people LOVE these


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Da Boss wrote:I just think they make some dumb decisions sometimes and it makes me worried that they're going to flop.


Not much risk of that happening, they have utterly miniscule overheads, and outsource as much as they can. All of the art/sculpting/design/non-metal casting is done out of house. I can't see Ronnie as a CEO making the crazy decisions that Rackham did, either.. that was a textbook example of how to take something brilliant and ruin absolutely every good thing about it.

It's a very lean operation with less than a dozen employees. Slightly larger than a garage company, but not by a great amount.

It's some pretty impressive marketing (and production skill) on their part that they've managed to become considered as GW's main direct competition despite the fact that they are about a thousand times smaller.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/02/19 07:54:14


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Love the ratmen.

Wish there was a ruleset that appealed to me to use them with!

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Edit: No wait, fifteen hundred.


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scarletsquig wrote:It's some pretty impressive marketing (and production skill) on their part that they've managed to become considered as GW's main direct competition despite the fact that they are about a thousand times smaller.


I think everyone thinks Privateer is GW's direct competition. Mantic isn't even the most well-known GW knockoff seller...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:The case being you felt GW have any originality in what you consider Mantics to be knock off of.
For the rest of us that knows GW knocks off generic fantasy / sci fi line, and Mantic does the same,
you would stop comparing the 2....


Oh, come off it-- Mantic's products are clearly based on GW concepts. GW's Skaven, for instance, are arcanepunky rat-men with a tattered and generally nonuniform appearance. Mantic's new not-Skaven are exactly the same, despite being in a totally different setting. Similarly, Mantic's Corporation guys have weapons that are basically lifted directly from GW. Hell, Mantic even says (sometimes) that they're "The Alternative Miniatures Company--" the alternative, of course, to GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/19 08:47:24


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Fetterkey wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:It's some pretty impressive marketing (and production skill) on their part that they've managed to become considered as GW's main direct competition despite the fact that they are about a thousand times smaller.


I think everyone thinks Privateer is GW's direct competition. Mantic isn't even the most well-known GW knockoff seller...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LunaHound wrote:The case being you felt GW have any originality in what you consider Mantics to be knock off of.
For the rest of us that knows GW knocks off generic fantasy / sci fi line, and Mantic does the same,
you would stop comparing the 2....


Oh, come off it-- Mantic's products are clearly based on GW concepts. GW's Skaven, for instance, are arcanepunky rat-men with a tattered and generally nonuniform appearance. Mantic's new not-Skaven are exactly the same, despite being in a totally different setting. Similarly, Mantic's Corporation guys have weapons that are basically lifted directly from GW. Hell, Mantic even says (sometimes) that they're "The Alternative Miniatures Company--" the alternative, of course, to GW.



?? Really so GW came up with the design for rat-men? They totally and utterly developed the concept and nurtured it to maturity all by them selves?

EVERYTHING GW has made had been a knock off of some archtype out there with some interesting splicing and weaving on their part.

Space Marines- SST MI/ Dune shadukar (who btw where organized in Legions)
'Nids- have you seen the alien/ aliens movies?
Guard- WWII infintry IN SPACE!!!!
Eldar- Elves...IN SPACE!!!
Orks, Orc's in space

See where I am going with this? There are only so many different ways to make a human in blah, it's to late to argue with people who already have their minds made up. Hate on Mantic all you like, I can't wait until GW is rotting in hell. Hopefully someone picks up the 40k IP and does something good with it, they can't do any worse then GW has done in the last 7-10 years.

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FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:?? Really so GW came up with the design for rat-men? They totally and utterly developed the concept and nurtured it to maturity all by them selves?


Nope, certainly not. However, their "flavor" of ratmen looks exactly like Mantic's "flavor" of ratmen, and given Mantic's track record it seems pretty clear where Mantic got their idea.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:EVERYTHING GW has made had been a knock off of some archtype out there with some interesting splicing and weaving on their part.


Sure, that's definitely the case. Mantic, on the other hand, has been making knockoffs of GW without any interesting splicing and weaving.

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Not interesting to you Fetterkey, but the general point of this thread is for posting news and rumour about Mantic for people who are interested in reading about it.

I think if anything this thread indicates that we need some kind of Mantic sub-section on this forum, just the same comments that have been going backwards and forwards not only the last 3 pages, but throughout the previous 50.

Anyway, in effort to try and keep something of this thread on topic, some Corporation minis from Golem studios from their facebook page











 
   
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These soldiers need to go to gym to fortify those thighs.

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I do have one complaint based on that last lot of pics: Why is nobody in Corporation ever looking to their right? Have they worked out a way to get around spaceships without taking right hand corridors?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Completely agree, they haven't made the best of choices if the intent was to actually make rip-off 40k models. You could extend this to the IoB clanrats too. Add some guns to those and you have much cheaper Veer-Myn than what Mantic is making."

It struck me when reading this, that maybe their "poor choices in trying rip off GW" might indicate that they aren't trying to be a GW rip-off?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/19 12:53:09


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garrapignado wrote:These soldiers need to go to gym to fortify those thighs.


That and why are they all firing from the hip? But the super skinny thighs really bug me.
   
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Pretty good paintwork there. Why do all the regular guns look like they are bent out of shape? Each one seems to be curving upwards, hopefully that is fixeable with a bit of adjusting.

   
 
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