So if I can talk about my favorite subject (me) again...I'm the only one who thinks troops slot units that aren't plain old infantry should be scoring?

"Fire support squad alpha, abandon your cover, run for the fuel dump, and prepare to use your heavy weapon as a club in close combat."
"But sir, epsilon squad has been holding the objective for three turns!"
"Acknowledged, Alpha, but those greedy bastards chose to strap jump packs to their backs and prepare for the inevitable close combat situations that they would face by being mobile and thus prepared for war. Damn them all!"

Speaking of all assault weapons being auto-defensive weapons, are there any other than heavy flamers that are more than Str4? Eldar/Dark Eldar perhaps?

Wehrkind wrote:Speaking of all assault weapons being auto-defensive weapons, are there any other than heavy flamers that are more than Str4? Eldar/Dark Eldar perhaps?

Eldar Shuriken Cannon for one (Assault 3).

Big Shootas, Rokkit Launchas, Burst Cannon, Combi-Meltas, off the top of my head.

Dead Horse wrote:So if I can talk about my favorite subject (me) again...I'm the only one who thinks troops slot units that aren't plain old infantry should be scoring?

"Fire support squad alpha, abandon your cover, run for the fuel dump, and prepare to use your heavy weapon as a club in close combat."
"But sir, epsilon squad has been holding the objective for three turns!"
"Acknowledged, Alpha, but those greedy bastards chose to strap jump packs to their backs and prepare for the inevitable close combat situations that they would face by being mobile and thus prepared for war. Damn them all!"

5th edition codexes probably will be made with only foot-slogging infantry troops in the troops section.

Do we know if they are going to replace every codex with core book rules? Or are they going to use older books and update them (like last time)?

We know that the last few codecies they've released (Dark Angels, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, etc) were designed with the fifth edition in mind.

Nurglitch wrote:We know that the last few codecies they've released (Dark Angels, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, etc) were designed with the fifth edition in mind.

And how do we know that? We don't know that because its supposition. They may work better than many other pre eldar 4th ed codecies, but there is no evidence other than your assumption that they were "designed with the fifth edition in mind.".

From all of those codecies I have read, the only one that looks firmly made with 5th ed in mind is the deamon codex, only due to how it is worded with terms not found in 4th ed.

In another thread, Yak gave a pretty good explanation as to why he believes Orks were released with 5th edition in mind.

From: Link

"It's pretty darn clear the Ork codex is written for 5th edition. There are many clues; here are just a few:

1) Grots weren't given a screening rule since it is a basic rule in 5th.

2) The Trukk ramshackle rule doesn't incorporate entanglement since that rule is gone in 5th edition.

3) Ghazghkull's special rules reference getting a bonus attack when charging when in 4th models with slow & purposeful don't get that bonus. They do in 5th so that reference makes sense."

Kilkrazy wrote:5th edition codexes probably will be made with only foot-slogging infantry troops in the troops section.

But I can think of four troop slot units that aren't infantry and will be readily available for use at the beginning of 5th edition: eldar jetbikes, ravenwing bikes, be swift as the wind marine bikes, and blood angels assault marines. I know the marine bikes might disappear (though there are rumors that they'll still be an option), but the rest of them pay through the nose for their mobility and won't be able to truly benefit from it if this short-sighted & limiting rule comes into play.

I know there's far too much pissing and moaning about rumors and conjecture, but if the designers decided that the focus of 5th edition was on foot troops to the exclusion of all else, and then decided that the only way to bring this idea to fruition was to stealthily neuter some other technically viable options without having the guts to fix the real problems (old rules & codices), then maybe the people who just piss and moan all the time have a point.

It doesn't seem fair that some armies should have the option of buying super-fast objective grabbing units and others don't. Whatever the cost levels -- since GW never get points values fully balanced.

That's why we have a points system. Those are all more expensive than other troops so you pay for those abilities. It's a trade-off, speed for survivability.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Some lists have one or the other, or both. Some lists don't.

Some lists have MC's, some have AV14 vehicles, some have 2+ saves...

Saying that because one list has something and another doesn't makes it unfair is silly.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That statement is itself silly. Of course it is unfair if some lists have none of those.

Wait, it's unfair that Nids can't get vehicles and vanilla Marines can't get MCs? Really?

Hmm... Maybe we should go back to RT, when everybody had the same handful of weapons, whether they were Orks, Eldar, or Space Marines, or Guard.

jfrazell wrote:That statement is itself silly. Of course it is unfair if some lists have none of those.

Of course it isn't. The fact that one list does not get stuff that other lists get has no implicit unfairness.

Many Eldar lists do not incorporate MCs, AV14 or Sv2+ but what army has long been considered a top army? Unless you mean it is unfair that the lists that do not get any of the 3 things noted are top armies?

That's why we have a points system. Those are all more expensive than other troops so you pay for those abilities. It's a trade-off, speed for survivability.

We're talking about troops. Some lists do not have either survivable or fast units. If objectives are becoming a big part fo the game, its predjudices some lists in favor of others.

puree wrote:Many Eldar lists do not incorporate MCs, AV14 or Sv2+ but what army has long been considered a top army? Unless you mean it is unfair that the lists that do not get any of the 3 things noted are top armies?

Amusingly, Chaos has all three:
- MC Daemon Prince and Greater Daemon
- AV14 Land Raider
- Sv2+ Terminators and Obliterators.

Based on the above discussion, *clearly* CSM must be made of pure WIN!

Beats making them out of plastic...

jfrazell wrote:

That's why we have a points system. Those are all more expensive than other troops so you pay for those abilities. It's a trade-off, speed for survivability.

We're talking about troops. Some lists do not have either survivable or fast units. If objectives are becoming a big part fo the game, its predjudices some lists in favor of others.

What army doesn't have survivable or fast units? Some armies have more survivable or faster units but that has always been the case.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Guard are not particularly survivable or fast.

Well, they have numbers and they can take Chimeras or drop in.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I'm with Ozy. I think lists without fast or survivable units (guard) have lots and lots of cheap bodies to make up for the lack of quality.

And eldar which have guardians, which in small numbers may be really fragile but since they can take them in units of 20 shouldn't really be a problem. (Especially with a lock with them)

Ratbarf wrote:And eldar which have guardians, which in small numbers may be really fragile but since they can take them in units of 20 shouldn't really be a problem. (Especially with a lock with them)

Or diere avenges in wave serpents, or rangers which infiltrate onto the objective, or a 10 man unit of wraithguard which are nearly impossible to kill.
I don't think eldar are getting the short end of the stick.

Ultimately an army with 6 pt cannon fodder has plenty going for it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

puree wrote:Many Eldar lists do not incorporate MCs, AV14 or Sv2+ but what army has long been considered a top army? Unless you mean it is unfair that the lists that do not get any of the 3 things noted are top armies?

Amusingly, Chaos has all three:
- MC Daemon Prince and Greater Daemon
- AV14 Land Raider
- Sv2+ Terminators and Obliterators.

Based on the above discussion, *clearly* CSM must be made of pure WIN!

Chaos has been a top tier army in many or most grand tournaments for some years. That is under the old codex and 4th edition of course.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Ultimately an army with 6 pt cannon fodder has plenty going for it.

I agree, Orks ROCK!