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The $2000 cancellation was not due to this post, it was due to your actions. This is your fault, Battlegrounds. You can keep trying to twist the facts to make you the poor victim, but the fact of the matter is that YOU are not doing what your customers paid for. YOU are engaging in shady dealings with the 'credit' thing. YOU are refusing to give your customers what they want.

Guys, if I may politely suggest, I think everyone has made their play so to speak, anything further will only be pointless aggression due to repetition. This situation will ultimately be resolved outside of Dakka and for people coming into this thread, probably best not to put 6 pages of posts that sound a bit scary if you didn't read the full content of the initial pages?

I.e further stuff will be perceived as emotional attacking and since the facts kinda speak for themselves...

Just a suggestion, but I remember in Mandelbaum threads they got so long and so polarized that some coming in had an urge to stick up for who they saw as 'the underdog' and were unable to assimilate the bare facts due to the length of it... leading to cyclical repetition that obscured the purpose of the thread.

Hope that makes sense!

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Well, the texts quoted by twinner shows him asking for his test-tank back at least two times - regardless of the stage of the painting.

Is he mistaken? Do you have access to other communication?

Sadly, If I had to bet money, no pictures will appear of your missing tank and High Elves. They are gone or sold.
I feel for everyone that was ripped off. I hope you can put more pressure legally to make sure he does not do this to others.

And Battlegrounds... Curran is right. the cancellation is due to YOUR actions, as your actions brought this thread about. The fact you cannot or will not see that the cause of all of your problems is 100% your fault is baffling to me.

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There's your tank kevin

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
What are you talking about. I've said many times that it's my fault and we are behind. I also said I feel terrible about what's happened and I just want to fix this for everyone And that I want nothing more then to see they back on these gentlemens game tables

Okay, I am going to be devil's advocate and assuming the guy is doing his best.

First, appearing to argue with customers never really pays off.
Please give your messages much thought and spell check would be helpful.
Mentioning discussions with police...
Too late now... guilty by association is a phrase that springs to mind.
ANY interaction with the police is never good, successful or not.

Excellent, space wolves were returned but the elf force used to help pay for painted space wolves cannot, so you are owing for services not performed.
I suspect the person will not be willing to send an army for you to paint (as was said), so replacement of that elf army (at least new models) may be the only option.

If the tank is available for return, please do so: there is really nothing further to be gained with this customer at this point other than cutting your losses and begging forgiveness.

Now for cramped time for painting and being able to keep-up: research every trick you can on speed.
Using an airbrush? Best looking fast painting I have ever done, for mass block painting nothing beats it.
Failing that: pre-mix paint in the shake-cans can get that first coat down.
Anyway... it is all out there to help your business.

If I was painting for others, I would as I finish my work for the day arrange what is in front of me, arrange the bench lights as best I can and take a picture with my phone and send the email in one shot with a brief description of what was done. 5-10 minutes tops and you get a "connection" with your customer. As you are almost done THEN do the carefully taken pictures to make sure they are agreeable to them being sent back. Even allow small requests from the customer to gain in customer service / involvement / buy-in.

I would suggest taking up some part-time work, removing some financial stress will also make it easier having some cash to deal with your present difficulty.
Getting out and doing other things will give a better perspective than painting all day and being yelled at in forums.

This is a public relations disaster.
If I found myself in this mess, I would rename the business and start again, do business locally and get people to vouch for me and THEN go back to out of town/country work.

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 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
There's your tank kevin

Wonderful, now show the high elves please

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Bankruptcy does not protect you from personal liability of a non-incorporated company you were the owner of. And even if you were incorporated, it is still not complete protection. Seriously, look into it for your own sake. Not being funny, but all declaring bankruptcy is going to do is torpedo your credit for foreseeable future and you will still be left liable anyways. You would be shooting yourself in the foot, bigtime. It is not your customers who need to be scared of you declaring bankruptcy man, it's yourself. That is 100% honest advice with no hidden agenda there. Be careful dude before you pull that particular trigger.

twinner wrote:

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
There's your tank kevin

Wonderful, now show the high elves please

Twinner, can you tell if any work has been done on the Razorback? Is it any different paint-wise?

No Matt it's still up. It goes down sometimes.

Mbutlers high elves

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:



its not different.

OK. In a text from you to Twinner you allegedly said the following;

2/14, 6:09pm
Battlegrounds Wargaming - Painting & Modeling Studio
Yea I have clearly I said I've tried a few combinations of colors and nothing you have matches right
An airbrush goes on super thin so it leaves room to do a few coats
February 21

Any comments?

Steelmage99 wrote:

twinner wrote:

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
There's your tank kevin

Wonderful, now show the high elves please

Twinner, can you tell if any work has been done on the Razorback? Is it any different paint-wise?

It's the same as I sent it, even after being told three or four times there was work done and progress pictures were incoming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
Mbutlers high elves

I clear picture mate, showing the models. I can't even tell if those are elves, let alone butlers elves.

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A case of misplaced anger stemmed from frustration.

If the financial situation is bad enough to toy with the "B"-word another source of income is in order: what you have now appears to not keep the lights on.

MajorTom is correct that unless you incorporate any debt can be pursued from your own personal assets. I was doing work helping with data backup and recovery so incorporating was mandatory for survival if anything went bad. It is like how they have that "Limited Liability" company designations in the USA.

Take a breath, send back stuff as requested and continue to paint what commitments you have. The internet has a long memory so you may want to think on how to proceed knowing what has happened here can be searched by pretty much anyone.

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lol.... you really are convinced the entire system is in place to protect people who neglect their contracts and take money with no service delivered in a reasonable amount don't you?

Default contract terms unless otherwise explicitely stated are NET 30 in Canada. You have 30 days to deliver from when you said you would before it becomes actionable. Not only that, your assertion that so long as you email once a month you can just continue to not do anything, not refund, not do the work with no issue is also completely in error. Does that even make sense to you honestly? You just have to send 1 email and you have an unlimited deadline with no consent from your customer?

Come on man.

@Twinner, call the Ontario Consumer Protection Agency (CPA) and ask them about internet agreements. I think you will find so long as you have a written agreement in the form of internet communications that outlines the service, amount and expected delivery, and if that amount is over 50 dollars and the item is non-delivered for a certain amount of time, you will have an actionable case. 1-800-267-8097. Or you will find out you don't, whichever it may be, you will at least know your true options for proceeding.

Well you are now on the Blog as a warning to others.

When your clients (not you) let me know that you have fulfilled your responsibility to what you accepted their money/models for. I will update.

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
I can really careless. I was being nice before to show my sympathy. Like I said this business name means nothing. This business cost me nothing to start and another on will cost me nothing to start. I've explained to everyone in personal detail through email. There is nothing more I can say. So either take your models or be patient and let me paint to them.

Any and every business you start will always be under a shadow of doubt. Look back at Dakkas history. Scammers start new ventures all the time. The community keeps watch, and outs those new ventures ASAP.

If you are legit, your best bet is to stop arguing on a public forum, and instead start working to satisfy outstanding debts.

If you are not legit, your best bet is to crawl back under your rock, and do not continue to victimize people.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
lol.... you really are convinced the entire system is in place to protect people who neglect their contracts and take money with no service delivered in a reasonable amount don't you?

Default contract terms unless otherwise explicitely stated are NET 30 in Canada. You have 30 days to deliver from when you said you would before it becomes actionable. Not only that, your assertion that so long as you email once a month you can just continue to not do anything, not refund, not do the work with no issue is also completely in error. Does that even make sense to you honestly? You just have to send 1 email and you have an unlimited deadline with no consent from your customer?

Come on man.

@Twinner, call the Ontario Consumer Protection Agency (CPA) and ask them about internet agreements. I think you will find so long as you have a written agreement in the form of internet communications that outlines the service, amount and expected delivery, and if that amount is over 50 dollars and the item is non-delivered for a certain amount of time, you will have an actionable case. 1-800-267-8097. Or you will find out you don't, whichever it may be, you will at least know your true options for proceeding.

For my case it was not more then $50, but for my brothers case i will forward this information to him, if Sean makes no effort to refund for the elves, we will go forward on this.

<sigh> Try to help no matter how much of a stretch it may be.
So be it: the customers are in the right here.
Pay for services rendered, no service, no pay.
This is drawing out as bad as a kickstarter.
Good luck all!

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All we need is a bird and an undead mother.

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I think this is how he thinks bankruptcy works:



Aaaaand, problem solved!

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