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People who complain about complaining complainers is my complaint.



amidoingitright?

 Desubot wrote:
People who complain about complaining complainers is my complaint.



amidoingitright?

People who complain about people complaining about hte people who complain about the complaining complainers who complain about complaining.


Now its right.

However, the people who complain about the above are OK.

pm713 wrote:
People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone..

At my FLGS there is one or two guys who plays several games a week and they always join the beginner-tourneys. Almost every time they end in top 3. I find this annoying because I´m absolutely that player who doesn´t have that total knowledge about every single rule in the BRB or all the dexes except the one I play myself.
How entertaining is it to start play a tourney when you know that you wont have a chance to win?

VanHallan wrote:
Then you would say painting isn't a priority for me. Not that you don't have time. Saying you don't have time to paint means that given enough time, you would paint. These people would not paint regardless of how much time it took. They don't like it, they don't want to get good at it, and they for some reason think the game is enough fun to justify spending money on, but time? not so much. I'd much rather spend more time on something than money.

And so we're back at the golf analogy. What kind of golfer do you want to play with? The one that spends 2k every couple years on new clubs, or the one that spends a few hundred every month on lessons to get better at the game?

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer to it but if your goal is to just go out drink beers and whack a ball around for the hell of it, stay way from the guy taking the game(hobby) seriously and go show off with the guy with new flashy clubs every so often.

The golf course is big enough for the both of us, i think.

100% legit question:
Have ever in your life been tested for or diagnosed with autism or similar?
As a psycholigist, I am highly curious.

Also I think I've got an answer for the guy with the 'why the hate on competitive players" thread.

No autism here. 100% legit question- why? you can pm it to me if that's easier I'm sure I've posted enough in this thread.

For the last time, its not a PERSONAL thing against anybody who CHOOSES not to paint. Its a simple matter of poor reasoning.

It is not the case that people "don't have time" to do something like paint models. It is a matter of how that time is spent. If you spend x hours per week on the hobby, there is no reason you couldn't spend a portion of X painting.

If you have time to do this hobby, you have time to paint. I just recently started playing. I never said "I don't have time to play." I was choosing to paint so I could eventually play a painted army.

If people dont want to paint, that's their army and their choice. but the "i dont have time" excuse does not, will not, and can not hold water.

The opportunity cost is too high. and that's all l it is. Anybody who wants to keep bullshitting on about it can be my guest. You can even believe it.

And you continue to miss the point in favor of ego. Lovely.

I would suggest it is you who misses the point. If you have time to post on dakka, that time could be spent painting. simple fact. Not saying you have to, but you could. Its possible. Figure it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You insist on making a point that I'm not interested in and not arguing against.

Jesus Christ.

Another decent thread that has been ruined by paint elitists.

There are millions of wargamers.
They are all different people.
They choose to play the game in different ways.

Get the flying feth over it.

Seriously guys, it ain't funny.

I was done with this thread 2 days ago. Come to find out people ask me questions I might as well answer them.

By the way, how many people's avatars on here are models that aren't painted? 100% legit question.

 reiner wrote:
Food and drink near models or playing areas drives me nuts. I'm not entirely sure what people are thinking putting a sweaty drink down on a table.

I won't even bring food or drink into a shop. I've always thought it a bit rude to others, even when it's allowed, whether by cleanliness or smell.


EDIT: Saw AlexRae's comment after I posted. Yes, please roll scatter dice near the target zone. It cuts a lot of confusion out of figuring the angle, and keeps everyone honest.

Our shop has trashcans for this reason, but its always been kind of an unspoken rule to eat away from the table or at least eat on a side table, not directly over the game board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VanHallan wrote:
I was done with this thread 2 days ago. Come to find out people ask me questions I might as well answer them.

By the way, how many people's avatars on here are models that aren't painted? 100% legit question.

How many people's avatars are things that aren't 40k models or even 40k related?

What annoys me most is when someone works their hardest to find 'loop holes' in rules to exploit something even when it's obvious it's not meant to happen.

To the OP...
You mean besides going online and being TFG online bully loudly and obnoxiously acting like a know it all and flaming and trolling at anyone who disagrees with them in any way shape or form? And when agreed with make up something to argue over just for the "sport".We have many like that here. lol

I'm assuming though that you mean in actual games however. The stuff done then is much less annoying. slow turns and cheating are what annoy me.

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The thing is I really hate painting. I mean really hate it, most likely as much as you hate playing against unpainted armies.

Its not that I am not putting any effort into the hobby, its that I get no satisfaction out of painting so why subject myself to something I dislike doing?

Not that you are wrong by any means, some people are lazy but some of us out there just plain hate it.

pm713 wrote:
People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

Meh I can deal with this, it's when you play them afterwards and win and they drop little shots about Tervigons and Tyrannofexes being cheesy (lol). It's like please... learn some humility, you just bragged about how epic your army was, should I have thrown the match to satisfy your ego?

 SHUPPET wrote:

pm713 wrote:
People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

Meh I can deal with this, it's when you play them afterwards and win and they drop little shots about Tervigons and Tyrannofexes being cheesy (lol). It's like please... learn some humility, you just bragged about how epic your army was, should I have thrown the match to satisfy your ego?

The very reason I dont brag or trashtalk. I even always do my best to downplay my army and when I do well, I am the one to say I got lucky. No one likes to hear a braggart.

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

Not what's being gotten at. You don't need to tell them that their grey plastic is good, you simply have to avoid being overbearing in regards to your painting and their lack of painting. Don't say anything if that's what it takes. Encourage them, sure, but that's it.

Everyone should receive the same level of respect. Doesn't matter if they're the local career criminal, the war veteran, scumbag drug dealing teenager or your mother. This is what comes off as elitist, the idea of them 'not deserving respect'. You can point out that it does look better, everyone here agrees that a well painted army increases enjoyment, but it's basic courtesy to avoid trashing someone.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

Not what's being gotten at. You don't need to tell them that their grey plastic is good, you simply have to avoid being overbearing in regards to your painting and their lack of painting. Don't say anything if that's what it takes. Encourage them, sure, but that's it.

Everyone should receive the same level of respect. Doesn't matter if they're the local career criminal, the war veteran, scumbag drug dealing teenager or your mother. This is what comes off as elitist, the idea of them 'not deserving respect'. You can point out that it does look better, everyone here agrees that a well painted army increases enjoyment, but it's basic courtesy to avoid trashing someone.

I'm sorry, but I don't think a career criminal or drug dealer deserves the same level of respect as my mother does. If that's elitist of me, well then I'm proud to be an elitist.

Also, where did I say anything about trashing people? The thread's about "the most annoying things players do". It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

This doesn't mean I trash people, hate them or think they're inferior human beings. I just think their armies are ugly and that they could easily make them look better by putting in some effort. I also think it's silly to be offended by the fact that dedication and talent garners more respect than the lack of said qualitites.

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

 Dannyrulx wrote:
Jesus Christ.

Another decent thread that has been ruined by paint elitists.

There are millions of wargamers.
They are all different people.
They choose to play the game in different ways.

Get the flying feth over it.

Seriously guys, it ain't funny.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

Well I've been called an insulting, elitist jackass on this very forum just for voicing the opinion that I prefer painted armies and dislike unpainted ones - in my book that's pretty over-sensitive and equals whining.

As for "doing it wrong": no, they're not doing it wrong. They're "doing it" in a way that gives me, as their opponent and playing partner, less pleasure from gaming. That's why I care about it, because it affects my gaming experience. If it didn't ,I couldn't care less about how people chose to spend their free time. But this is a social hobby and what you do and don't do affect other people's enjoyment.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steelmage99 wrote:

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

Ok, so I'm sorry if I offended all the people out there who think grey plastic is beautiful. Your taste is as good as mine, there are no objective aesthetical values at all. Happy?

I guess we could just as well play with bits of cardboard then. Or even display them as pieces of art. After all, who are we to say cardboard isn't beautiful?


Anyway, I'm not derailing this thread any further. If someone wants to keep battling, send a PM

Acephale wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

Ok, so I'm sorry if I offended all the people out there who think grey plastic is beautiful.

So everybody that doesn't agree with you that grey plastic is ugly, thinks that grey plastic is beautiful?
Don't be stupid.
First of all, I can reject your statement ("Grey plastic is ugly") without subscribing to the opposite statement ("Grey plastic is beautiful"). I can even reject your statement without subscribing to the negation of your statement ("Grey plastic is not ugly").
Second, those aren't the two only options. Grey plastic can be seen as neutral.
Grey plastic can even be beneficial compared to painted plastic depending on the "paint-job" applied to the army.

Your taste is as good as mine, there are no objective aesthetical values at all. Happy?

Yes, please.

I guess we could just as well play with bits of cardboard then. Or even display them as pieces of art. After all, who are we to say cardboard isn't beautiful?

An "argument" making use of the Slippery Slope Fallacy isn't really impressive.


I simply pointed out a painfully obvious issue in your statements.
It is not a "fact" that grey plastic is ugly, and it is not a "fact" that painted armies (even only some primer and base-coat) looks better.
It is your opinion and shouldn't be misrepresented.

We can post a lot of factual statements, that we all know is really our opinions.
That is not what you did. You explicitly stated that your opinions were facts....and I called you out on it.

Why did I do that? Because to me it is one of the most annoying things some players do.

 Boyofdestiny205 wrote:

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The thing is I really hate painting. I mean really hate it, most likely as much as you hate playing against unpainted armies.

Its not that I am not putting any effort into the hobby, its that I get no satisfaction out of painting so why subject myself to something I dislike doing?

Not that you are wrong by any means, some people are lazy but some of us out there just plain hate it.

And I get that, I wasn't a huge fan of painting until about a year ago when I sat down with a new army and thought "well if they're gonna be painted, I should really try this time" and developed better painting skills. I still struggle to motivate myself with bigger models or large blobs of infantry but taking it a little at a time has helped me enjoy painting and I can see that my opponents appreciate seeing more painted every week. Even if it's another colour base coat added to a trukk.

I think painting is implicit in the hobby. Obviously others don't, this doesn't need to be gone over again. This is a thread about opinions related to 40k, I've stated mine and those that disagree can move on. "I don't like painting" is fine, "I don't have time" is lazy. This has also been gone over. Stop yourself now.

I would never not play an unpainted army but I would encourage those with unpainted minis to get a primer on there or a base coat. 3 colours makes a world of difference, aesthetically. Ultimately it's up to you how you enjoy your models, but I think putting some effort into the look of your minis carries with it an air of sportsmanship in terms of respecting your potential opponents time spent having to look at your models for extended periods of time.

 Acephale wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

Well I've been called an insulting, elitist jackass on this very forum just for voicing the opinion that I prefer painted armies and dislike unpainted ones - in my book that's pretty over-sensitive and equals whining.

As for "doing it wrong": no, they're not doing it wrong. They're "doing it" in a way that gives me, as their opponent and playing partner, less pleasure from gaming. That's why I care about it, because it affects my gaming experience. If it didn't ,I couldn't care less about how people chose to spend their free time. But this is a social hobby and what you do and don't do affect other people's enjoyment.

The people who I've sen in these threads being called an insulting elitist jackass are those who are claiming that they are better because they paint, and look down on others for not doing so. Not necessarily in those words of course.

If playing against unpainted models bothers you so much, why play against them? No one is forcing you to.

Where are the mods.... 3 pages of paint natter

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
Where are the mods.... 3 pages of paint natter

It's called Alert Mod button. You can also PM the mods. Also, neener neener, painting arguments!

I hate fortification. It leads to a very unbalanced game. I was in a 1750 game where the guy brought a Void Missal battery... needless to say I could only kill a total of 17 models, it was a Tau player

Back seat gamers, the ones who watch and commentate and yet have nothing to do with the game itself. They'll second guess both players, offer insight into their opinion of everything, get involved in rules queries. I'm sure we've all encountered at least one like this.

Also the scatter dice thing. As close to the point of impact as possible, it's amazing how this doesn't occur to so many people.

MarsNZ wrote:
Back seat gamers, the ones who watch and commentate and yet have nothing to do with the game itself. They'll second guess both players, offer insight into their opinion of everything, get involved in rules queries. I'm sure we've all encountered at least one like this.

OMG yes. I had this one guy that kept taunting my 500 pt Tyranid force against my friend's 500 pt Tau for saying something was going to die every turn (he had a deathstar unit). I won that game, with the possibility to table him, had my friend not conceded.

Another thing that really irks me are those players that complain about everyone and everything saying 'that's ing stupid' or 'you got lucky' or 'you tailored your list against mine' or *insert excuse* and yet do absolutely nothing to improve, making the same little mistakes that snowball into the loss.

And those people that bring the absolute cheese when building lists. When they lose, they scream their head and accuse you of cheating.

I've got a lot of people in my club who I will never play against, either having played or watched them play.

Gah.