Titan Forge- Lords of Fury Kickstarter- (Not) Marines vs (Not) Daemons

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**RiTides**

Stormwall wrote:
So I just got some hobby money from a friend as a late Christmas gift. I now have no excuse, and I am locked in with a 37$ pledge. (Which I think Mlaw/TFG on the KS comments explained is a Claymore and some Marines.)

I guess it is just a waiting game now to see if the Dropship is unlocked. I also feel awful for the snarkiness last night, just adopted a twenty four pound ball of fur in the form a cat who kept me up till 5:59 this morning. It's not a good excuse for being salty on Dakka though, so I apologize to you all as I was in the wrong.

No worries, and that sounds like a handful

I didn't realize the Claymore had sponsons - man that is sweet looking!

**MLaw**

I don't think it does.. it just says share their status.. I just threw it up on my timeline.. but a friend's wall would probably work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the snark/salt..
I'm a vet and a college grad with 2 kids.. lol I've got pretty thick skin. I haven't really gotten worked up here despite how it may seem.. I'm mostly just being overly helpful and I think it's rubbing people wrong. I started lifting again and have waaaay too much energy here lately. Last night it translated into me cooking a 3 course meal and making my wife an Espresso.. and.. cheesecake.. so yeah.. it's all good man.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unfortunately, I just heard back from TF and you guys are correct. The $35 on the $500 tier is only for USD backing.. for points it's just the points listed, plus the other benefits. So there's no advantage for $$ vs points..

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Typically you have to share on your timeline (with your permissions set to public)

otherwise the company setting the contest don't get notified you've done it

**stanman**

They really need to revamp their main page, the dollar amounts mixed with points packages wtf?? it's confusing as feth and unless I know what I'm pledging for without having to do complex math and read detailed fine print it's not getting my support. They really need somebody official to figure out how to post clearly in English and organize their page, the longer it takes them to clean things up the less support they are going to get. I get that English may not be their forte but this isn't their first dance on KS and they should have this stuff down by now.

Also MLaw your rabidness is not helping anything... You're actively keeping me away from supporting this.

Edited by RiTides - Rule #1

**MLaw**

So, we just unlocked the airship and TF posted this in the comments section

Tommorow we will focus on aircraft (mainly cargo pod) so we should have some new pictures to show you.
Also we want to keep its price around 55-60$. Making to much options for him would make it impossible so we have an idea - We will make a basic kit for it. It will have all needed parts to assemble it (with some guns, those 6 side thrusters etc) but we will also make some upgrade sets that will include parts like for example:
- alternative wings with rotors
- alternative tail end with rotors that will replace back thrusters
- missile launchers that will replace front thrusters
- standard jet engines to hook under wings on at the edges of them
and if print would not be to expensive something to replace cargo pod but we will not know it will be possible before the end of this campaign.

For as big as that airship is, I think $50-$60 is reasonable. I know that's close to Puppetswar's retail for their Dragonfly but I'm okay with the price tag. I'd rather TF be conservative with the reduction on that rather than charge too little and not be able to deliver at all.
I also think their idea for the variations is something that would really make for a lot of fantastic combinations and conversions.

And.. it even means people who want the rotor wings can get them!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's some stretch goals..

**Dark Severance**

I have to admit I keep flip flopping. The conversations in my head go something like this.

"Oh I like how a couple of those figures look." - Raises pledge.
"I don't heavily play WH40K anymore and don't really have anything to play with them" - Lowers pledge.
"They sure would be really great to paint" - Raises pledge.
"I already have a bunch of miniatures in a queue waiting to be painted, do I really need more?" - Lowers pledge.
"I really like the tanks and APC" - Raises pledge.
"We should throw in some marines, they could be great Halo troopers or something. I mean they are scifi and shiny!" - Raises pledge.
"Since I raised my pledge I might as well get the best bang for the dollar." - Raises pledge.
"I really should get the bare minimum, I could always get more later." - Lowers pledge.
"Yeah but what if I can't get as good as a deal, that has happened before on quite a few KS". - Raises pledge.
"Damn it, there are too many KS going on. I'm trying to cut down and so many choices." - Lowers pledge.
"I really like that airship. Maybe I should just get the minimum, APC, Tank and Airship." - Raises pledge.

Yep... that is about how it happens. To be fair I haven't actually raised or lowered my pledge, that many times... it tends to hover at the same price point. I have a spreadsheet where I make calculations on the KS (I have a monthly budget) so I can tally the final pledge amount. Before it closes I'll make the final count but if I did raise/lower that many times, I'd probably drive a KS Creator crazy. ^_^

Edit: DAMN IT! Please don't unlock the Terra Assasin (<--- is a sucker for female scifi troopers). Although her torso looks a bit weird. I know its not completed and probably because of how she's turned, but it feels like she has no neck with how high her breastplate is. Time to add more to my internal conversions in my head.

**MLaw**

DS, I mentioned that breast plate to TF. The sculptor is going to look at it today.

There's a vote for head designs if you didn't see it.

**Hulksmash**

Been keeping up with the comments. Hope they open up the Lust Daemons as a bundle. I think that really would be a booster. A great last 48 hour addition.

There is basically nothing "awesome" that's going to generate a decent amount of extra cash on the way. It's minor upgrades or discounts or a single model unit.

Guess we'll see.

**MLaw**

They were slated as a $40k stretch.. the huge slowdown and the unexpected addition of the dropship shifted things around. I don't know if they're going to shift them to sooner. Talking to TF I got a sense that they budgeted this stuff out and moving them lower might cause the project to skew on it's costs. That's why a lot of the SG's in between are not major. I do think they're kinda cool.. but like you, I don't have much use for the Sgt.. I'm running Guardians.. he would look a bit out of place. I do kinda like the sniper though. The scenic bases are cool if you don't already have something to use.

I thought for sure the extra % would pique your interest :/

**Hulksmash**

Extra % would pique my interest. My point is I don't think they are going to hit even that based on the current performance and that the lust daemons might be enough to push to the discounted % which then might push to where they were originally going to go with it.

**MLaw**

We're kinda close to hitting the next SG.. so unless there's another ..like 37.5 or something I would expect the Lust Minions to be up when we ding that bell. A lot of people are more excited than us about that sniper too.. and the 48 hour reminder e-mail will go out in a few hours.
I think it's doable to hit the 40k.. but it'd be down to the wire and I'm being extremely optimistic with that. I have a guess as to where we're more likely to end up but I'll stay positive for now.

**Alpharius**

If I only want a dropship, what level do I have to/should I pledge at?

**Hulksmash**

$50 pledge level and then add $10 for the difference and if you just want that take the 50% off shipping. So make sure you add half of the shipping. So like $70 at the $50 level

**RiTides**

Have they set the price of the dropship? It says "$55 - $60" on the graphic.

So, you'd pledge for that price and select the Lvl 1 pledge. Shipping would be $15, or $7.50 if you take half of it as your "freebie" (otherwise you could get 5 free marines if you pay the full shipping cost).

**Hulksmash**

They haven't set it yet. I'd probably just put in enough myself to the $55 amount and if needed they can collect the other $5 from me later

**Alpharius**

Hulksmash wrote:
They haven't set it yet. I'd probably just put in enough myself to the $55 amount and if needed they can collect the other $5 from me later

Sounds like a plan!

Thanks guys!

**MLaw**

TF mentioned that he's concerned with trying to keep the cost down so I think he's going to shoot for $55 but from what he said, I got the impression they're doing the math on printing it.. or he's waiting for an actual print to finish of the prototype since the volume for the base kit shouldn't change too much.
That's a wild guess on my part. Please don't take it out of context or as some kind official word from them..

He liked one of the tail designs I did but he said it would be too bulky and could cause issues with pricing. He did mention that they would release alternate body kits separately for people who wanted them (I mentioned it earlier in greater detail). I believe he said that would be later though.

I popped some engine pod designs into the comments section if you guys want to take a look.

**skullking**

Did we ever get a clear answer on why they have been so negligent on fulfilling some people's orders on the metal beards kickstarter?

I saw something mentioned earlier in this thread about there being an issue with all the weapon options some of the troops had, but I didn't hear any specifics as to which figures, or why?

@Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!

These new models look great, but why haven't they set something up so you can purchase from their back catalogue as well. To be able to add some undead orks, demons, or other items at a slight discount, such as Mierce does with their KS, couldn't hurt.

**Hulksmash**

@Skullking

I contacted them on the newer kickstarter. They forwarded me to their customer service at support@titan-forge.com and they had sent the stuff out 5 days later.

**MLaw**

Woo, another update.. I was not interested in the squad leaders as a Guardian thing but man.. I am persuaded now!

and the sniper got more work done and a pricepoint.

**deadairis**

skullking wrote:
Did we ever get a clear answer on why they have been so negligent on fulfilling some people's orders on the metal beards kickstarter?

I saw something mentioned earlier in this thread about there being an issue with all the weapon options some of the troops had, but I didn't hear any specifics as to which figures, or why?

@Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!

These new models look great, but why haven't they set something up so you can purchase from their back catalogue as well. To be able to add some undead orks, demons, or other items at a slight discount, such as Mierce does with their KS, couldn't hurt.

Sure did get an answer, which was "we made mistakes."

Which would be way more acceptable if they were actively trying to fix them, rather than requiring their pledgers to ride them on it. Looking at the discounts of my kickstarted Metal Beards vs their (very high) retail pricing but adding in the KS delay while they had those funds, the amount of time my time hounding them to get missing bits, and their dismissal of their mistakes on the last campaign as "we know we made mistakes" without any real action on it? Cost me more to pledge.

**MLaw**

What did they not fix? Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you got your products. Is there something else they have not fixed?

**Polonius**

MLaw wrote:
What did they not fix? Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you got your products. Is there something else they have not fixed?

I think the concern is that the incredibly delayed fulfillment and complete lack of communciation was a systemic problem with Titan Forge, and not a one time, "Oops, we didn't know that we were supposed to deliver product" type of mistake.

So, while they've "fixed" the individual problems, coincidentally at the exact time they started asking the gaming community for more money, there is a larger problem that we're not sure has been fixed.

Generally, product only fails to deliver if there is complete incompetent in fulfillment, meaning that not all orders are tracked well; or if the company simply cannot fulfill the orders due to low liquidity. Or, as is common with garage shops, both.

**MLaw**

This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.

However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.

**Polonius**

MLaw wrote:
This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.

However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.

I wouldn't say that this concersation has been had over and over. I think there were a few oblique references to the actual article, but I've been following the thread and I didn't remember it, so forgive me if I don't think the topic was beaten to death.

Anyway, here's the question from BOW and the resonse from Titan Forge:

Spoiler:

BoW: Some of your previous campaigns have had some significant issues with them, namely some delays for the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns. Why have there been delays here?

2014 was a tough period for us. Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless.

The delay in Metal Beards and the fact that some of the orders weren’t completed up to now had four causes. Firstly, it was the first project done completely in 3D and at the time we didn’t realise the amount of work needed to prepare such a number of models for printing was so big. Secondly, the amount of parts was overkill. A unit of 12 dwarves consisted of 108 parts, most of them small and easily broken and the amount of rejects was much more than we anticipated. The third cause was independent of us. A company that was supposed to print a big amount of the models for us wasn’t able to supply us with prints of adequate quality – we ended up having to look for another place to print them at. The last cause was changing the person responsible for shipment, which led to a mess up with the paperwork and in turn some orders got overlooked.

Armymals had two problems. The first one – no one person responsible for contacting the backers. This caused a lot of questions to stay unanswered for a long time, the tensions among backers rose and we completely understand this. Even though we learned our lesson during the Metal Beards campaign and the production process was completely airtight, something else failed in the Armymals campaign – shipping. Here the fault lies with our lack of experience and too much trust. When we were planning the Kickstarter we asked numerous shipping companies to calculate the cost of worldwide shipping. A German company proposed the best terms – not only were they the cheapest, they would also pack the sets for backers on their own. Thanks to that we wouldn’t have had to wait for all the orders from the pledge manager and we would just send the games and add-ons to Germany.

Unfortunately we were misinformed by that company and when the games and shipping addresses reached them we were presented with an invoice that showed completely different prices, up to 3 times larger than agreed upon. We were informed that there has been an error in the calculations and all they could offer was a 10% discount. We tried to reach an agreement, but we only lost out on time and were forced to use other, slower shipping methods. The additional costs and delays caused by this were massive.

To extract the key, and most worrying part: "Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless." Note the use of passive voice: "things got overlooked and some where postpone." It's a classic "mistakes were made." Who overlooked them? Who postponed them? The same people running this campaign?

Otherwise, this basically boils down to "we didn't know what we were doing. We swear we have it together this time."

So, I suppose it does boil down to me not believing that they've really fixed anything. They've run two kickstarters, and both had incredible delays. Further, they had terrible communication, which is entirely in their own means to fix.

**RiTides**

skullking wrote:
@Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!

MLaw, this would be an example of something they have not fixed yet! This is an argument you're not going to win - better to grant that they had (and still have unresolved!) severe issues with the last campaign.

Skullking, part of the way Hulk was able to get his stuff, I think, is by selecting non-troops models. The troops are what gave them fits - they were new to 3d modelling and the troops were made in way too many parts (over 100 per set). They've simplified that for this campaign, so should be able to handle it much better. But even the artillery pieces I got at retail for the metal beards were in a Ton of parts!

So, consider messaging them on the new campaign (perhaps as a PM and in the comments) and selecting items they are still currently selling on their webstore, and you will be much more likely to get your stuff. I received my pledge just fine from the last campaign, likely because I had simple selections (just heroes)... the troops were the real backbreaker for them, and should be avoided if you want to get stuff anytime soon, imo!

**Hulksmash**

What RiTides said. I ordered a bunch of stuff that was already available at retail. I wanted a few units but also actually wanted something for the money I put in so I just went with the blimps because I might be able to use them with my squat army as Storm Talons.

**warboss**

Dear God... another KS using the "force majeure" response...

**MLaw**

Ah, I haven't had my coffee yet and didn't see that in Skullking's post. I asked them what is up with that.. because I agree that's a lot of money to just not get an answer on. Hopefully he contacts them again and gets it sorted out.

**RiTides**

Agreed, and I've done similarly on other campaigns that hit snags - things don't always go perfectly, and if it's possible to swap to things they have actually been able to produce, that's a good way to go, imo.