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I'd bypass the Eldar and go straight to changing the base game itself.

gungo wrote:
The only change I feel needs for the elder cidex is wraithknights are undercosted by 100points. That's all

I would like GW to clarify the warp spiders rules seems unintended for them to jump around a dozen times a turn but that's not a change.

I would like a global change to str d. A roll of 2-5 still d3 no pen table, roll of 6 is 3 hull and pen table no invul save. 6plus d6 and pen table is just broken when you put a 500+ model on table and it's gone in a single hit. It's also better for future str d weapons such as when forgeworld updates all thier distortion wpns to str d.

While eldar codex has a ton of strong units the only unit that is shown to be disgustingly broken in competetive play is wraith knight spam.

This. Change to the d table is all that is really needed. Once the rest of the codex get their updates people will stop complaining that Eldar are op... (who am I kidding, eldar are and will always be the punching bags for SOME reason!)

 krodarklorr wrote:

jwr wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Indeed. I am beginning to think SM players may not be the worst...

Well Space Marine players are certainly bad. We just have to accept that they're the lesser of two evils.

This is where I finally have a sense of relief for spending an hour a night working on 1800 pts of fluffy and obscure IF successors in a CAD...

There was a hint of sarcasm in my post, and if you read above, you'll know that it mainly stems from all of the (vanilla) Space Marine players that I've seen.

Oh, I noticed. I also had to figure out what to do once I painted a Captain. Then he needed a command squad. They need to be in charge of something....a tac squad. Then a landspeeder. Then an ironclad dread. Then another squad. All the while, thinking, I want to make something original, that doesn't have a single painted model in the 3 dexes I have, but that actually has a little fluff in the BL. I suppose I'm going to have to actually play a game against some Eldar and find out what all the fuss is about.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Indeed. I am beginning to think SM players may not be the worst...

Well Space Marine players are certainly bad. We just have to accept that they're the lesser of two evils.

Why are you effectively labeling all marine players as whiny bitches?

And then effectively calling all eldar players power gamers?

Sounds to me like YOU have a chip on your shoulder. Wanna hug it out bud?

I mean, most SM players I've known complain about their book...a lot.

Well there's still core issues that aren't resolved. Specifically with all Terminator variants, Tactical Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders. These are core to the aesthetic of a Space Marine army, and my Tacticals always end up representing Sternguard (because Scouts and Bikers are just that much better) and I have no real use for anything else that was listed.
Everything else is pretty solid, but those things have missed the mark for a VERY long time.

I bought the new BA tactical boxes just to call them Sternguard.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

gungo wrote:
The only change I feel needs for the elder cidex is wraithknights are undercosted by 100points. That's all

I would like GW to clarify the warp spiders rules seems unintended for them to jump around a dozen times a turn but that's not a change.

I would like a global change to str d. A roll of 2-5 still d3 no pen table, roll of 6 is 3 hull and pen table no invul save. 6plus d6 and pen table is just broken when you put a 500+ model on table and it's gone in a single hit. It's also better for future str d weapons such as when forgeworld updates all thier distortion wpns to str d.

While eldar codex has a ton of strong units the only unit that is shown to be disgustingly broken in competetive play is wraith knight spam.

This. Change to the d table is all that is really needed. Once the rest of the codex get their updates people will stop complaining that Eldar are op... (who am I kidding, eldar are and will always be the punching bags for SOME reason!)

Sarcasm? I really hope so.

Eldar have been a punching bag over the years for legitimate reasons.

Martel732 wrote:
Eldar have been a punching bag over the years for legitimate reasons.

If what people have told me is true, Blood Angels were once upon a time just as hated...

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Eldar have been a punching bag over the years for legitimate reasons.

If what people have told me is true, Blood Angels were once upon a time just as hated...

BA peaks have been much more infrequent and much less high than Eldar.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

gungo wrote:
The only change I feel needs for the elder cidex is wraithknights are undercosted by 100points. That's all

I would like GW to clarify the warp spiders rules seems unintended for them to jump around a dozen times a turn but that's not a change.

I would like a global change to str d. A roll of 2-5 still d3 no pen table, roll of 6 is 3 hull and pen table no invul save. 6plus d6 and pen table is just broken when you put a 500+ model on table and it's gone in a single hit. It's also better for future str d weapons such as when forgeworld updates all thier distortion wpns to str d.

While eldar codex has a ton of strong units the only unit that is shown to be disgustingly broken in competetive play is wraith knight spam.

This. Change to the d table is all that is really needed. Once the rest of the codex get their updates people will stop complaining that Eldar are op... (who am I kidding, eldar are and will always be the punching bags for SOME reason!)

Sarcasm? I really hope so.

I have 0 issues with winning vs eldar in close, fun games other than if they bring D-weapons. Anything ignore cover wrecks their bikes and the rest of them are really squishy and have set roles. assault the shooty, shoot the stabby.

Anything that ignores cover usually gets shot from 36" away by said bikes.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

gungo wrote:
The only change I feel needs for the elder cidex is wraithknights are undercosted by 100points. That's all

I would like GW to clarify the warp spiders rules seems unintended for them to jump around a dozen times a turn but that's not a change.

I would like a global change to str d. A roll of 2-5 still d3 no pen table, roll of 6 is 3 hull and pen table no invul save. 6plus d6 and pen table is just broken when you put a 500+ model on table and it's gone in a single hit. It's also better for future str d weapons such as when forgeworld updates all thier distortion wpns to str d.

While eldar codex has a ton of strong units the only unit that is shown to be disgustingly broken in competetive play is wraith knight spam.

This. Change to the d table is all that is really needed. Once the rest of the codex get their updates people will stop complaining that Eldar are op... (who am I kidding, eldar are and will always be the punching bags for SOME reason!)

Sarcasm? I really hope so.

I have 0 issues with winning vs eldar in close, fun games other than if they bring D-weapons. Anything ignore cover wrecks their bikes and the rest of them are really squishy and have set roles. assault the shooty, shoot the stabby.

You mean anything that ignores cover and is AP3. Tons of weapons in my arsenal like that.....ohh wait I dont have any. And assault the shooty? that really doesnt work when their shooty can put out anywhere between 12-40 S6 shots that are usually TL because of psychic shenanigans. Ohh look here goes my boyz to the assault...ohh look 1 turn of shooting reduced the 30 Boy mob to 10 models. I failed my morale check (Go figure) and lost another D6 models. Ohh here we go Im finally in range CHARGE! and then overwatch an im dead.

 Ghazkuul wrote:


You mean anything that ignores cover and is AP3. Tons of weapons in my arsenal like that.....ohh wait I dont have any. And assault the shooty? that really doesnt work when their shooty can put out anywhere between 12-40 S6 shots that are usually TL because of psychic shenanigans. Ohh look here goes my boyz to the assault...ohh look 1 turn of shooting reduced the 30 Boy mob to 10 models. I failed my morale check (Go figure) and lost another D6 models. Ohh here we go Im finally in range CHARGE! and then overwatch an im dead.

That sounds painful. The inevitability i mean.

If i was an ork player having to deal with eldar on a regular basis i would be tempted to ally in some necrons for s***s and giggles. "come the apocalypse? - It's apocalypse every game in 7th ed, mate."

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:


You mean anything that ignores cover and is AP3. Tons of weapons in my arsenal like that.....ohh wait I dont have any. And assault the shooty? that really doesnt work when their shooty can put out anywhere between 12-40 S6 shots that are usually TL because of psychic shenanigans. Ohh look here goes my boyz to the assault...ohh look 1 turn of shooting reduced the 30 Boy mob to 10 models. I failed my morale check (Go figure) and lost another D6 models. Ohh here we go Im finally in range CHARGE! and then overwatch an im dead.

That sounds painful. The inevitability i mean.

If i was an ork player having to deal with eldar on a regular basis i would be tempted to ally in some necrons for s***s and giggles. "come the apocalypse? - It's apocalypse every game in 7th ed, mate."

Of course this is situation within a vacuum where this unlikely situation also includes no cover being factored in, no likely Painboy FNP (the bigger the mob the more likely you've invested a Painboy to keep em alive) and worst case scenario even if all of this DOES happen, you have more than one mob of boyz and your more deadly units (bikers, mek guns) aren't being focused down and can either get close or keep doing their job). There's a reason why Ork armies are redundant in terms of taking units.

So far in my games I've never had the need for allies, even when facing against Necrons. Getting through their RP is annoying as gak, but if you lock them down with threats even with gauss most Necron lists can't blow through mass battlewagons or green tide fast enough for them to stop you from hitting home completely. Take advantage of the Finkin' Cap to try and increase the chances of getting infiltrate them to get those crucial extra 6-8" of movement.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

gungo wrote:
The only change I feel needs for the elder cidex is wraithknights are undercosted by 100points. That's all

I would like GW to clarify the warp spiders rules seems unintended for them to jump around a dozen times a turn but that's not a change.

I would like a global change to str d. A roll of 2-5 still d3 no pen table, roll of 6 is 3 hull and pen table no invul save. 6plus d6 and pen table is just broken when you put a 500+ model on table and it's gone in a single hit. It's also better for future str d weapons such as when forgeworld updates all thier distortion wpns to str d.

While eldar codex has a ton of strong units the only unit that is shown to be disgustingly broken in competetive play is wraith knight spam.

This. Change to the d table is all that is really needed. Once the rest of the codex get their updates people will stop complaining that Eldar are op... (who am I kidding, eldar are and will always be the punching bags for SOME reason!)

Sarcasm? I really hope so.

I have 0 issues with winning vs eldar in close, fun games other than if they bring D-weapons. Anything ignore cover wrecks their bikes and the rest of them are really squishy and have set roles. assault the shooty, shoot the stabby.

You mean anything that ignores cover and is AP3. Tons of weapons in my arsenal like that.....ohh wait I dont have any. And assault the shooty? that really doesnt work when their shooty can put out anywhere between 12-40 S6 shots that are usually TL because of psychic shenanigans. Ohh look here goes my boyz to the assault...ohh look 1 turn of shooting reduced the 30 Boy mob to 10 models. I failed my morale check (Go figure) and lost another D6 models. Ohh here we go Im finally in range CHARGE! and then overwatch an im dead.

You're playing one of the worst codexes in the game currently and are surpised that it loses to one of the best and most recent? Interesting.
I also play orks and losing boyz is to be expected if you don't protect them and then even they are cheap. Also the majority of the shooting units can't put out that many s6 shots, only jetbikes back that power. Orks have the amazing ability to pump out loads of shots, which ironically is good against the eldar by forcing lots of saves, they can only save so many before even weak shots get through.

Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

House rules might be a thing but it's not really a good thing, it might be alright for your gaming group but what happens when you play someone not from your gaming group.? Or when your at a tournement.? House ruling things while it might make sense to you and your friends it really Doesn't teach you how to get better or learn new stratigys.
And yes if GW isn't going to change it then roll with it, people are to sensitive, it's a game, play it the way it's presented.
So you think that jetbikes should have a 4+\5+ save.? So the best bikes in the game get the worst save lol SM bikes have a 3+, ork bikes have a 3+ so why shouldn't eldar.?

Dman137 wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

House rules might be a thing but it's not really a good thing, it might be alright for your gaming group but what happens when you play someone not from your gaming group.? Or when your at a tournement.? House ruling things while it might make sense to you and your friends it really Doesn't teach you how to get better or learn new stratigys.
And yes if GW isn't going to change it then roll with it, people are to sensitive, it's a game, play it the way it's presented.
So you think that jetbikes should have a 4+\5+ save.? So the best bikes in the game get the worst save lol SM bikes have a 3+, ork bikes have a 3+ so why shouldn't eldar.?

Space Marine bikers get 3+ because they wear Power Armor. Scout bikers get a 4+ because they wear Scout armor. Ork Bikers have a 4+ because they consider them to be Eavy Armor Boyz or Nobz.

Eldar get a 3+ because the clown who wrote the Eldar codex was TFG who never wanted to lose.

It's actually a typo from Rogue Trader that we think was never fixed.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

House rules might be a thing but it's not really a good thing, it might be alright for your gaming group but what happens when you play someone not from your gaming group.? Or when your at a tournement.? House ruling things while it might make sense to you and your friends it really Doesn't teach you how to get better or learn new stratigys.
And yes if GW isn't going to change it then roll with it, people are to sensitive, it's a game, play it the way it's presented.
So you think that jetbikes should have a 4+\5+ save.? So the best bikes in the game get the worst save lol SM bikes have a 3+, ork bikes have a 3+ so why shouldn't eldar.?

Space Marine bikers get 3+ because they wear Power Armor. Scout bikers get a 4+ because they wear Scout armor. Ork Bikers have a 4+ because they consider them to be Eavy Armor Boyz or Nobz.

Eldar get a 3+ because the clown who wrote the Eldar codex was TFG who never wanted to lose.

and the eldar bikes should confer a 3+ save. Why would they get a 5+.? So bolters can kill them with no save, yeah no thanks clearly you missed the point of balance. But like I said before, GW won't fix and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn

" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

To bad they won't ban eldar hahaha

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

To bad they won't ban eldar hahaha

Maybe not from tournaments because they have to worry about getting enough players to attend. but a lot of local gaming clubs with people like you have basically told them to go feth themselves. In my area we have a great Eldar player who refuses to act like you. He plays competitive lists but doesn't take WK's and Scat bikes and the other BS Eldar shenanigans. In fact he is probably the best 40k Player I know, truly a fun guy to play with. But we also had a guy like you who would bring WK's and scat bikes and try to play a FW Eldar Titan. He isn't allowed at the store anymore.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

To bad they won't ban eldar hahaha

Maybe not from tournaments because they have to worry about getting enough players to attend. but a lot of local gaming clubs with people like you have basically told them to go feth themselves. In my area we have a great Eldar player who refuses to act like you. He plays competitive lists but doesn't take WK's and Scat bikes and the other BS Eldar shenanigans. In fact he is probably the best 40k Player I know, truly a fun guy to play with. But we also had a guy like you who would bring WK's and scat bikes and try to play a FW Eldar Titan. He isn't allowed at the store anymore.

competitive eldar player that doesn't have a WK or scattbikes is not a competitive player, second off you don't no what kind of player I am. In are local store we let anyone use what they want, it's a game get use to it, you think soccer teams are going to ban Ranaldo or messi because there to good.? Lmao it's a game with toy soldiers, people are to sensitive and clearly your really sensitive to eldar sorry I mentioned your trigger word lol

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

House rules might be a thing but it's not really a good thing, it might be alright for your gaming group but what happens when you play someone not from your gaming group.? Or when your at a tournement.? House ruling things while it might make sense to you and your friends it really Doesn't teach you how to get better or learn new stratigys.
And yes if GW isn't going to change it then roll with it, people are to sensitive, it's a game, play it the way it's presented.
So you think that jetbikes should have a 4+\5+ save.? So the best bikes in the game get the worst save lol SM bikes have a 3+, ork bikes have a 3+ so why shouldn't eldar.?

Space Marine bikers get 3+ because they wear Power Armor. Scout bikers get a 4+ because they wear Scout armor. Ork Bikers have a 4+ because they consider them to be Eavy Armor Boyz or Nobz.

Eldar get a 3+ because the clown who wrote the Eldar codex was TFG who never wanted to lose.

and the eldar bikes should confer a 3+ save. Why would they get a 5+.? So bolters can kill them with no save, yeah no thanks clearly you missed the point of balance. But like I said before, GW won't fix and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn

I must admit I've always wondered since 3rd why eldar bikes have a 3+ save.

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Well first off I'd like to say I don't know much about Eldar, simply due to my complete lack of interest in them but I have heard of the stories of their overpoweredness and have see the devastation it has wrought so I have some thoughts on that.
As a second opener I do have concerns that I don't want the nerfs to screw over the players too badly. Just because I don't care about or like an army doesn't mean I want their players to suffer.

With that said, the things I think might need to be changed:
1) The Jetbikes should probably be 1-in-3 for the fancy weapons, with the Scatterlaser costing more and a worse armor save (4+ or 5+). Maybe keep the current version around as a separate unit (something like "Veteran Windriders" or something) with the specialty spam and 3+, but in a different slot and noticeably more expensive, and the Scatterlaser getting the same cost increase. I mostly say the latter to not screw over anyone who bought loads of them, and some say it might be fine if they were correctly costed and not Troops.
2) The Wraithknight needs to be more expensive, everybody already knows that. I'll also add that it needs to be a Walker rather than a Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Creature because THAT'S WHAT IT BLOODY IS! It's not a monster, it's a piloted mecha! And before you ask, yes I would say the exact same thing about the Riptide and Dreadknight.
3) I might be biased due to not getting repeatedly snarfed with D but I'm actually fine with Destroyer weapons, what isn't fine is having a stupid amount of them. Let the Wraithknight keep them by all means, it's a great big Lord of War and if anything should have Destroyer weapons it's a great big Lord of War. What isn't fine on any level is having Wraithguard spamming them like crazy. That's taking it too far, and it seems like there's a better alternative in how they used to work.

Lastly, Dman, are you seriously gonna push the "GW isn't going to change it so just roll with it, lol" angle? Because that failure of logic could be used against EVERYTHING on this site, they likely aren't logging onto DakkaDakka to look for suggestions. What's more, house rules and such are a thing that exist.

House rules might be a thing but it's not really a good thing, it might be alright for your gaming group but what happens when you play someone not from your gaming group.? Or when your at a tournement.? House ruling things while it might make sense to you and your friends it really Doesn't teach you how to get better or learn new stratigys.
And yes if GW isn't going to change it then roll with it, people are to sensitive, it's a game, play it the way it's presented.
So you think that jetbikes should have a 4+\5+ save.? So the best bikes in the game get the worst save lol SM bikes have a 3+, ork bikes have a 3+ so why shouldn't eldar.?

Space Marine bikers get 3+ because they wear Power Armor. Scout bikers get a 4+ because they wear Scout armor. Ork Bikers have a 4+ because they consider them to be Eavy Armor Boyz or Nobz.

Eldar get a 3+ because the clown who wrote the Eldar codex was TFG who never wanted to lose.

and the eldar bikes should confer a 3+ save. Why would they get a 5+.? So bolters can kill them with no save, yeah no thanks clearly you missed the point of balance. But like I said before, GW won't fix and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn

I must admit I've always wondered since 3rd why eldar bikes have a 3+ save.

because of there speed there hard to hit, this why the 3+ save, just like ork bikes get the plus one to cover from the dirt cloud.

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

To bad they won't ban eldar hahaha

Maybe not from tournaments because they have to worry about getting enough players to attend. but a lot of local gaming clubs with people like you have basically told them to go feth themselves. In my area we have a great Eldar player who refuses to act like you. He plays competitive lists but doesn't take WK's and Scat bikes and the other BS Eldar shenanigans. In fact he is probably the best 40k Player I know, truly a fun guy to play with. But we also had a guy like you who would bring WK's and scat bikes and try to play a FW Eldar Titan. He isn't allowed at the store anymore.

competitive eldar player that doesn't have a WK or scattbikes is not a competitive player, second off you don't no what kind of player I am. In are local store we let anyone use what they want, it's a game get use to it, you think soccer teams are going to ban Ranaldo or messi because there to good.? Lmao it's a game with toy soldiers, people are to sensitive and clearly your really sensitive to eldar sorry I mentioned your trigger word lol

Dman, you misunderstand the way im using competitive. I mean as in both sides have a chance to win. As far as me not know what kind of player you are? Well I can only go by the way you act on this forum and that is TFG. You make a list you claim is unbeatable, debate people on how their list is weaker then yours. and then you make a thread on how to make Eldar balanced but every suggestion you shoot down and then tell people to L2P or "get used to it". So going by what I have seen I would never want to play you because you would be the worst kind of opponent.

and DMan, Orks only get the +1 to CS if they Turbo Boost.

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" enjoy getting my 88+ S6 range 36" shots per turn "

TFG Eldar ftw.

the reason so many players say ban Eldar

To bad they won't ban eldar hahaha

Maybe not from tournaments because they have to worry about getting enough players to attend. but a lot of local gaming clubs with people like you have basically told them to go feth themselves. In my area we have a great Eldar player who refuses to act like you. He plays competitive lists but doesn't take WK's and Scat bikes and the other BS Eldar shenanigans. In fact he is probably the best 40k Player I know, truly a fun guy to play with. But we also had a guy like you who would bring WK's and scat bikes and try to play a FW Eldar Titan. He isn't allowed at the store anymore.

competitive eldar player that doesn't have a WK or scattbikes is not a competitive player, second off you don't no what kind of player I am. In are local store we let anyone use what they want, it's a game get use to it, you think soccer teams are going to ban Ranaldo or messi because there to good.? Lmao it's a game with toy soldiers, people are to sensitive and clearly your really sensitive to eldar sorry I mentioned your trigger word lol

Ya its a GAME, as in it should be fair. The Eldar Dex isnt fair, and i play Ad Mech. Oh and the Windriders could have NO ARMOR and they would be fine, cuz they have a 2+ Jink, and you know that. And Soccer? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with tabletop wargames. And before you go babbling about how you can't possibly make that many armies balanced against each other, just remember that KoW did.

Dman137 wrote:
because of there speed there hard to hit, this why the 3+ save, just like ork bikes get the plus one to cover from the dirt cloud.

Dark Eldar Reavers have a 5+ save. Harlequin Skyweavers (or whatever they're called) have a 4+. The fact that they're different from one another is stupid, but not as stupid as Eldar Windriders having a 3+. The fact that they're troops (instead of fast attack as is the case in the DE and Harlequin examples) is just salt in the wound.

Feel free to continue trolling this thread with your horrible punctuation and L2P attitude, but you're attempts at applying reason to justify the way things shook out with the new Eldar codex are insulting to smart people everywhere. Try harder.