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  I've been thinking about the new Chaos codex.  I haven't seen it yet, but I've read HBMC's review, and quite a few posts here and there (there being the B&C).  I've also read quite a few persistent rumors about potential future Chaos-related codices. 

  The new codex, at appears, focuses on the Renegade Chapters like the Red Corsairs and the Sons of Malice and suchlike.  Neglected are the daemons and the "big four" god-specific Traitor Legions. 

  There are strong rumors of a Daemon Codex in the near future. 

  There are...  weaker...  rumors of god-specific codices in the not-so-near future. 

  I believe that daemons were collapsed into one unit entry and cult marines curtailed, not to make it easier to balance the army list, but to enable GW to make more Chaos Codices by keeping design space open.  The all-in-one Chaos Codex was deemed to be Too Complicated by, well, somebody important, I guess.  And it was pretty complicated, I suppose.  Nothing compared to the old Realm of Chaos books (I still haven't quite figured those out!) but pretty complicated. 

  In short, to include the lamented lost options would make new codices redundant, and new codices = more sales.  It's like when they released the new Codex Space Marines.  The Dark Angels players had to buy it.  But they also had to buy the new Dark Angels Codex.  And every time, they wanted to buy more miniatures.  I think that this is the same deal.  This is the basic "generic Chaos Marine" Codex, while the newer ones will be specialized. 
 
  I'm not trying to give Chaos players a pep talk, (don't worry Little Timmy, your army will be fun again in a mere six years!) or imply that the new Codex is the roxxor, just trying to fathom the mind of...  Gav.   Right.  Never mind. 

I could see cult troops and LatD being in Codex: Daemons (or whatever it will be called), but as you said, we don't have enough line to plumb the briny deep of Gav's mind.

We can only hope.

I don't buy this.

CSM are not daemons, yet they were thoroughly thnned out into blandness by this Codex. While I suspect the upcoming codex daemons will return varied daemons into the mix it still might not do so the way you want. Then such a codex might be far away, just because the codex needs a rewrite immediately after publication doesnt mean you wont need wait five years for one.

What I dont get is why GW are tailoring 40K to be accessible to youing children when the subject matter is not suitable for them.
Here is Peter. Here is Jane. Here is Spot the daemon. Peter is possessed writhing in arcane agony. Jane is a Dark Eldar Drachite who rips out beating hearts for fun. Spot is very happy.

Here's what I expect from aligned lesser daemons:

Bloodletter = generic daemon profile with +1 attack
Plaguebearer = generic daemon profile with +1 toughness.
etc.

Orlanth is right...there's a massive assumption by players that the new codex will "give back" the current daemons. I bet the much-maligned generic daemons are the new template.

I agree that we almost have to give GW an 'Incomplete' grade for the CSM codex, given that the daemon book and potential Legion codicies may greatly enlarge and flesh out GW's current vision for Chaos.

The thing is, an Incomplete isn't a passing grade.

Posted By Orlanth on 08/16/2007 3:44 AM
IWhat I dont get is why GW are tailoring 40K to be accessible to youing children when the subject matter is not suitable for them.

Because dropping your kid off at the GW store is cheaper than day care, that's why.

GW realizes kid will bug their parents, and parents will give in because $50 a week (or less) is cheaper than paying that baby sitter or day care agency.

Posted By gorgon on 08/16/2007 6:29 AM
Here's what I expect from aligned lesser daemons:

Bloodletter = generic daemon profile with +1 attack
Plaguebearer = generic daemon profile with +1 toughness.
etc.

And that is why they need a separate codex!  Did you really expect them to stuff all those extra rules for +1 attack, +1 toughness, +1 initiative, AND +1 invulnerable into the new CSM codex?  It would have been 500 pgs long!!  I'm sure the daemon codex will have other special rules for aligned daemons to differentiate them from generic daemons.  Like "Daemon Assault" - half your daemons can deep strike on turn 1 regardless of mission!!!!!!

ALL of your daemons! And they can assault, too!!!

Posted By Pariah Press on 08/15/2007 8:12 PM
  There are...  weaker...  rumors of god-specific codices in the not-so-near future. 

  I believe that daemons were collapsed into one unit entry and cult marines curtailed, not to make it easier to balance the army list, but to enable GW to make more Chaos Codices by keeping design space open.

Why include extensive rules for cult marines when they don't even have a real model line for them?  Only berserkers have a plastic box set.  Noise marines and Thousand Sons are just metal mail order bitz designed for box sets that no longer exist.  There are no models for cult terminators.  I'm thinking their reasoning was more along the lines of keeping their options open.  If they later decide to give the cult legions proper model support then they can release rules for them.  If not then no big deal.  No models → no rules.

Suck it up all you chaos whiners. Now you get to play marineses like everyone else. They need to just increase the points costs of daemons and give them a 3+ save then you have more marines. If everythings the same it makes it easier for 12 year olds to memorize. Your guys to exactly what my guys do. Marines are kinda like Checkers you get different colors.

Posted By Lemartes on 08/17/2007 8:27 AM
Suck it up all you chaos whiners. Now you get to play marineses like everyone else. They need to just increase the points costs of daemons and give them a 3+ save then you have more marines. If everythings the same it makes it easier for 12 year olds to memorize. Your guys to exactly what my guys do. Marines are kinda like Checkers you get different colors.

Huh?

Posted By Pariah Press on 08/17/2007 1:31 AM
ALL of your daemons! And they can assault, too!!!

I'm sorry for this in advance, and blame Pariah, because he inspired it.

GW's new marketing slogan:

"All your daemons are belong to us!"

What hath I wrought?!?

i would like to point out that maby just maby they might make new codex's for the trator legions, simaler to codexes: dark angels, blood angels, and black templarers. ithink this would make more sence as there should be 5 maby 6: undevided, khorne, nurgle, tezeench, slaanesh,and maby trator gaurd. this gives a grator amount of time to GW to work on them and allows for the desine team to expand on the gods/legions

personaly i can see why they took away the legion spesific trates, how many DYI trators have you seen at your FLAGS, GW, or on line i have only seen 3: a force representinting tellos, trator soul drinkers from: crimson tears, the one from the adeptacon photo gallery, and another compleatly made up by one of the red shirts at my locale GW

Doubtful as its way too many to commit to

Id suggest that they may do 3 Codexs; Codex Renegades (This one), Codex Agents of Chaos (Latd and Daemons) and finally Codex Chaos Cults (The 4 gods of chaos) That would be more managable IMHO

Posted By gorgon on 08/16/2007 6:29 AM
Here's what I expect from aligned lesser daemons:

Bloodletter = generic daemon profile with +1 attack
Plaguebearer = generic daemon profile with +1 toughness.
etc.

And the fact that we'll get a whole Codex devoted to some very insignificant stat changes just fills me with dread.

What a waste of time? Why not do something useful and re-do the Inquisition Codex to include all three Ordos, and release some new Xenos Inquisitors and maybe some Deathwatch models/upgrade kits. Then unify the adversaries rules. Use the opportunity to release specialised Henchmen from different races (Demiurg anyone) to gauge interest in new races.

Then do a Lost & The Damned Codex, allowing people to combine it with their Guard and Chaos armies.

Then don't re-do Guard as there's nothing wrong with it.

Then re-do Space Wolves... well... they'll end up following the Codex Astartes like BA's and DA's do, so dead loss there.

Then re-do Dark Eldar.

Then issue an apology to the GW community, remove Holo-Fields from the game, and reinstate interesting Daemons.

BYE

Not to get Rumsfeld-ian, but the known for GW is that daemons sell. The unknown is how LatD sell or will sell. GW, as befits a corporate entity, is banking on the known. There are obvious reasons why daemons sell (daemonbombs *cough* daemonic legions *cough*), but I don't think GW drills down even that far to figure out why.

So, I started an online petition for LatD. I'm not an online petition guy, but in this case, I think it's what we need...some simple evidence for GW that people care about the army. Since the army skews toward vets, hopefully we can get some good support from Dakkaites.

Here's the link: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/latd40k/.

I'll start a new thread advertising it.