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Well, we've all by now seen the debates raging about the Chaos Codex, or as some are calling it, Codex: Naughty Marines. I've been playing this game for a long time and about 3 years ago I sold off a lot of figures for half-completed armies and what-not. About the only real collection I have left is my Space Marines. I can field multiple forces of them and still have alot of stuff sitting on sprues. Do you thinmk that I could use the rules from the new Chaos 'dex for something that looks pretty much Imperial to represent Chaos Renegades?

Would anyone think it unfair if my marines were imperial marines with chaos rules and the only real difference would be the odd conversion and having the purity seals/auilas/ and such scraped off and/or hidden? Where would you draw the line? Librarians that had just recently succumbed to, I don't know Slaanesh?

So would you complain, would you expect others to complain, and would you complain at a tournament?

I'd be a little concerned if they still had the Ultramarine =U= on them. Otherwise, there is no (longer a) difference between a CSM and a Marine. Oh, except the CSM never got his Landspeeder license, and wasn't allowed to carry an assault cannon (hence his turn to chaos).

Well, I'd take off anything showing Imperial affiliation. I just wouldn't have all those spikes...

They're pretty much the same thing. Just tell your opponent.

I believe the IA articles on Renegades pretty much said you could use either Imperial or Chaos Marine models depending on how recently they went renegade.

Just say that your army decided to go renegade 'last Tuesday', and you're good.

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 08/17/2007 2:57 PM
Well, I'd take off anything showing Imperial affiliation. I just wouldn't have all those spikes...

Why? The Chaos Vindicator still has an Imperial Eagle plastered to the dozer blade.

go for it. Say they're 'fallen' Dark Angels who fight for the real imperium.

in local games i wouldnt think most people would say a word but show up to a gt or a games day and forget it sorry

Posted By DarkKhabal on 08/17/2007 6:10 PM
in local games i wouldnt think most people would say a word but show up to a gt or a games day and forget it sorry

"I'm sorry.  Your Naughty Marines aren't spikey enough.  You forfeit."

Posted By Pariah Press on 08/17/2007 6:47 PM

Posted By DarkKhabal on 08/17/2007 6:10 PM
in local games i wouldnt think most people would say a word but show up to a gt or a games day and forget it sorry

"I'm sorry.  Your Naughty Marines aren't spikey enough.  You forfeit."

all kidding aside... if im at a gt/gd and someone walks up to the board with dark angels then tells me they are 1000 sons you can forget it... i dont think the organizers would allow it anyway

 

but at a local event sure what the hell why not try out the chapter before you buy the models.. that makes sense to me and everyone i would assume

From the GT Packet.

Most models should be identifiable
as to what they are on sight. A good
example would be Bretonnian
models converted to represent
Imperial Guardsmen (Right). These
models are easily recognizable as
Guardsmen and shouldn?t cause any
confusion. Another example would
be extensively converted Gnoblar
models that represent Goblins; this
is fine. As long as what you are
trying to achieve is easily
recognizable ? and most
importantly, easily recognizable by
your opponent ? you should have
no problems at all.
? Some models in your army can be a little harder to identify, but
once an opponent has been informed as to what they are, there
should be no further debate. For example, Skeletons converted
into Cannon crewmen and used as part of a Dogs of War Cannon
unit in your Vampire Counts army should cause no confusion,
once the ?counts as? situation is explained.
? Models from another range or even from the same army range
cannot be used as a proxy for something in your army. For
example, you cannot use a unit of Zombies and say they are
Ghouls. You definitely cannot take a unit of Empire Crossbowmen
and say they are Ghouls!

I think you're fine.

Malfred. Schooling fools since 1999.

Using Ultramarines as an example.

The upside down greek omega symbol that ultramarines think theyre clever for using could be construed as something completely different than what the convention that GW smashes down your throat means.

GW Newspeak "teaches" us that the symbol signifies "Ultramarines".
I say it stands for an upside down greek omega letter symbolizing the armies plight against enemies who enjoy greek fashioned brotherly love far too much.

Its perspective. More importantly, its the perspective of the armies owner that matters more.

I wont go off on a huge rant as I have in the past regarding "counts as", but suffice to say that the rule is made for creativity. To hinder that is to shackle anothers creativity by inflicting yourself and your sense of aesthetics on someone else.

i.e. to be "THAT Fething Guy".

Imperial Fists that arent yellow? Say it aint so!

Orks represented by slug models? Oh, the humanity!

A nidzilla army that is completly robotic? Lordy! I seem to be getting the vapors!

Space marines with "Hello Kitty" heads? *Foams at the mouth...spasms and dies*

If its consistent, then it should be legal (within GW's own rules Malfred was so kind to mention).

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 08/17/2007 2:03 PM

So would you complain...?

Nope. I value creativity. You paid the money for your army, you should be able to do with it as you will.

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 08/17/2007 2:03 PM

...would you expect others to complain...?

...Theres one in every crowd who feels that images GW shows us in their publications is the gospel. Nothing else will do for them. If it is red, and has a tear drop, then to them its a blood angel. Perish the thought that it might be representing an emo space marine who enjoys the finer points of self abuse... nevermind, that IS a blood angel.

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 08/17/2007 2:03 PM

...would you complain at a tournament?

Definatly not. In fact, I expect to see armies beyond the norm there. This is a tourney after all. A place to show and tell your ideas and play fun games. I want fabulous armies that the owner creates to be stimulating other than "Wow! Chaos with an 8 pointed star! Thats fething original! Did you come up with that all by yourself, or did you read a Moorcock novel last night?".

Instead it could be "Yeah, my chaos renegades are smart! Or atleast smarter than their imperial counterparts who supposedly follw the true emperor *coughfoolscough*. They choose to paint their armor to look like "Ultramarines" so that they can infiltrate planets for easier conquest! Then all the blame goes to the Ultramarines... Let the galaxy burn! Muahahahahaha!"

Thats not to say there is anything wrong with following GW's easybake oven guidelines, but you shouldnt be forced to conform to them.

This may appear to be a rant, but you havent seen my stance in the past regarding "Counts as". This is a rant lite post in comparison.