Rumors on new Daemonic Codex...

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**Ghaz**

... noticed the following mentioned on Warseer. From Shadow Forge Games:

September 28, 2007

New Army in the Works!

Most of you already know that there is a new Daemon Book comming out around May of next year (notice I said Book not Codex ). I have recieved confirmation that this book will infact be functional with both 40K and Fantasy! The Daemons will form their own stand alone army in both 40K and Fantasy and, from what I understand, they will also be usable with CSM and HoC armies! Add in the fact that the new daemons are likely being doen in plastic and are being released alongside the Summer Campaign, this means some big things are happening next year!

**fellblade**

I will be very interested to see how they do this. I would have thought that the mechanics of Fantasy were different enough from 40K to make such a crossover impossible.

Hmm. Cross-pollination, or cross-contamination?

**Dice Monkey**

So long as it does not tell me my special and rare units in my Daemonic Legion army are "Counts As" I will be happy. They do need to nerf the Flying Circus anyway.

**Boss Salvage**

A shared 40k / Fantasy book?

*thinks about that briefly*

Well, that's nutty anyway. I'd just assume that 1/2 is common fluff, 1/4 is using demons in fantasy, and 1/4 is using demons in 40k. But 2 stand alone armies in addition to rules on integrating them into totally different armies? This thing is gonna be massive, and I guess needs to be to justify GW not selling 2 books instead of 1 ...

Besides the common fluff and the way (in the simplest sence) demons would be used in the 2 systems - i.e. army of all demons, demons as part of a chaos army - this seems like madness. Confusing madness

- Salvage

**Spacegoat**

My concern with this is that the fantasy daemons will get neutered. They're so very different (ie: useful) from their 40K counterparts that I'd hate to see all the awesome Horror rules disappear =\

**Dice Monkey**

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 09/28/2007 11:36 AM
A shared 40k / Fantasy book?

*thinks about that briefly*

Well, that's nutty anyway. I'd just assume that 1/2 is common fluff, 1/4 is using demons in fantasy, and 1/4 is using demons in 40k. But 2 stand alone armies in addition to rules on integrating them into totally different armies? This thing is gonna be massive, and I guess needs to be to justify GW not selling 2 books instead of 1 ...

Besides the common fluff and the way (in the simplest sence) demons would be used in the 2 systems - i.e. army of all demons, demons as part of a chaos army - this seems like madness. Confusing madness

- Salvage

They had 2 volume hardcover books covering Chaos in the old days of Rogue Trader and 2nd-3rd edition fantasy. So it is not that strange andsure to drive up sales of daemon models.

**Asmodai**

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 09/28/2007 11:36 AM
A shared 40k / Fantasy book?

*thinks about that briefly*

Well, that's nutty anyway. I'd just assume that 1/2 is common fluff, 1/4 is using demons in fantasy, and 1/4 is using demons in 40k. But 2 stand alone armies in addition to rules on integrating them into totally different armies? This thing is gonna be massive, and I guess needs to be to justify GW not selling 2 books instead of 1 ...

Besides the common fluff and the way (in the simplest sence) demons would be used in the 2 systems - i.e. army of all demons, demons as part of a chaos army - this seems like madness. Confusing madness

- Salvage

It might also fit with a trend in GW publications like Apocalypse.

GW makes more from selling you a big $50 hardcover book like the current rulebooks, Apocalypse, etc. then they do selling dinky little paperback Codexes at $15 a pop.

The combined lists could just be an excuse to make one big hardcover full colour Liber Daemonica and charge you $50 for it.

**hammerofulric**

I can't see this happening. There is too little crossover in the marketplace to justify a joint book. Ten years ago, possibly, but not any more.

What I'm expecting is a simultaneous launch for separate 40k and WFB daemon books, as they will share a single range of new plastic miniatures.

**Lorek**

Well, it would fit nicely into the new codex format with the actual army list at the end of the book, seperated from the fluff and the descriptions.

**Necros**

I'd buy a $50 hardcover demon book if it was worth it.. I posted in the warseer thread too but I really don't see 1 big chaos book being a bad idea.. to me they're all the same as long as it has a separate army list for each game it should be fine. But then now that I think about it if they're making a huge book they could also just as easily make 2 smaller ones.. Guess we'll just have to see

**Korcheski**

Oh yeah! Yet ANOTHER major Chaos event. I can hardly contain my joy.

**Foda_Bett**

Well considering most of the rumors said that this "demon" book would hold the rules for the different cult armies (World Eaters, Thousands Sons, etc).
It should be VERY thick.

**Ghaz**

More rumors, this time from Dosadi on Warseer:

Well, I guess I have a scoop for ya then...

The book will be a background book on the Ruinous Powers and their deamonic servants. I?ve been told it?s big and might be hardcover as Chaos is part of the GW IP that is truly their's (or Moorcock's ) they want to make a big deal out of it. There are TWO army lists in the back, one for WHFB and one for 40K. There are big fluff sections for each god and sections for specific fluff for each game system (Chaos Wastes, Eye of Terror). I?ve heard there are something like 11-16 special characters (depending on who I choose to listen to) and some cross over into both games. Doombreed and Foulspawn make their return as well as some from the old Champions of Chaos book from 5th edition FB. The lists are stand alone armies. In 40k they will only be compatible in Apocalypse games (you can?t use them in regular Chaos Marine armies). I?m not sure how they will interact with Hoc or BoC in FB yet.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Posted By Necros on 09/28/2007 12:50 PM
IBut then now that I think about it if they're making a huge book they could also just as easily make 2 smaller ones.. Guess we'll just have to see

Yes, but then you could just buy one smaller book for less $$$. This way you have to pay big $$$ for the big book, nevermind that half of it is useless to you. They use the same strategy when they bundle useful and useless models in the same box set.

**bejustorbedead**

In 40k they will only be compatible in Apocalypse games (you can’t use them in regular Chaos Marine armies).

If true, I guess everyone hoping the Daemon Codex was somehow going to rescue the new Chaos Codex daemons from crappiness can start weeping.

**Alpharius**

Posted By bejustorbedead on 09/28/2007 1:34 PM

In 40k they will only be compatible in Apocalypse games (you can’t use them in regular Chaos Marine armies).
If true, I guess everyone hoping the Daemon Codex was somehow going to rescue the new Chaos Codex daemons from crappiness can start weeping.

Those of us who were hoping that it would rescue the Traitor Legions too can also start crying...

**syr8766**

Either:

a) they're hoping/planning for Apocalypse to be the new standard 40k (and in doing so, are winding back the clock to 1994 and 2nd edition)
or
b) this will be a massive waste of money
or
c) all of the above.

**Waaagh_Gonads**

Apocalypse only for the 40k list.... are an army of autistic monkeys slapping away at typewriters running the 40k division of GW?

GW just seems to be making stupider and stupider decisions for 40k with each month.

Thank goodness WHFB is run with some semblance of sanity and foresight.

BTW: I'd be all for 2 seperate books, one 40k and one WHFB, for a start I don't want to lug around 2kg of fluff and 15 pages of rules to games....

**Lorek**

I think that the poster Dosadi from Warseer was trying (unclearly) to say that the 40k Demon Army would only be usable with Chaos Marines in Apocalypse games; you could use them by themselves in normal games (and I'm assuming Cities of Death).

**Grot 6**

Sounds Like someone is regurgitating Slaves to Darkness/ Lost and the Damned.

2 full books from back in the day when GW's Books ment something. Each book is about an inch thick.

( Oh, by the way, if they cut a book like this loose, you can stop worrying about your Lost and the Damned armies.)

**gorgon**

Posted By Grot 6 on 09/28/2007 3:13 PM
( Oh, by the way, if they cut a book like this loose, you can stop worrying about your Lost and the Damned armies.)

Umm...no. All signs are pointing to this book being Daemons-only. So other than all the Traitor IG, Traitor tanks, CSMs, Mutants, Big Mutants, Chaos Hounds, and Chaos Spawn, we'll be all set. (Keep those petition signatures and letters to GW coming!)

I think this book shows who's really in charge at GW. Rather than doing LatD (the most common form of Chaos incursion) or the Legions (arguably the most popular CSM armies), we're getting a book on the rarest of Chaos armies...that you can't even ally with CSM armies.

Why? Well, they have shiny new plastic miniatures on the way. Why? Because daemons sell well, and the finance types figured it's because we all just *love* daemons. (Apparently the strength, and thus powergamer appeal of daemonbomb and Daemonic Legions wasn't exactly programmed into their calculations.) So in this case, the new miniatures are spawning the creative design, instead of the other way around.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Posted By Waaagh_Gonads on 09/28/2007 1:59 PM
Apocalypse only for the 40k list.... are an army of autistic monkeys slapping away at typewriters running the 40k division of GW?

Yes.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Posted By gorgon on 09/28/2007 5:32 PM

I think this book shows who's really in charge at GW. Rather than doing LatD (the most common form of Chaos incursion) or the Legions (arguably the most popular CSM armies), we're getting a book on the rarest of Chaos armies...that you can't even ally with CSM armies.

Why? Well, they have shiny new plastic miniatures on the way. Why? Because daemons sell well, and the finance types figured it's because we all just *love* daemons. (Apparently the strength, and thus powergamer appeal of daemonbomb and Daemonic Legions wasvn't exactly programmed into their calculations.) So in this case, the new miniatures are spawning the creative design, instead of the other way around.

This should have become incontrovertibly apparent to everyone the moment Codex: Black Templars was announced.

**fellblade**

Posted By gorgon on 09/28/2007 5:32 PM

...and the finance types figured it's because we all just *love* daemons.

...and yet the nipples have been covered again.

**bigchris1313**

Posted By Ghaz on 09/28/2007 1:25 PM

The lists are stand alone armies. In 40k they will only be compatible in Apocalypse games (you can’t use them in regular Chaos Marine armies). I’m not sure how they will interact with Hoc or BoC in FB yet.

Mind-boggling.

This can't be true. It just doesn't make sense.

**Polonius**

I can't believe it myself. I'm not saying I don't believe it, because at this point nothing GW does is unbelievable. I simply choose not to allow myself to believe that GW would close that enormous opprotunity for sales, and piss that many people off at the same time.

To go from having an entire codex to ally from, like Imperials have in the inquisition tomes, to having no interactivity makes so little sense I'm almost positive it's true.

While I'm very interested in what an all demon army would look like, I enjoyed a good summoning as much as the next guy.

**Pariah Press**

Posted By gorgon on 09/28/2007 5:32 PM

So in this case, the new miniatures are spawning the creative design, instead of the other way around.

When has this ever NOT been the case with GW?

I like the idea, personally. Those Liber Chaotica books were a blast from the Realm of Chaos past, and this sounds like it's along a similar vein. If it means I can use my WHFB daemons in 40K without buying a bunch of stupid Chaos Marines, I'm all for it.

Stupid, stupid Chaos Marines!

**stonefox**

Posted By Pariah Press on 09/28/2007 8:13 PM

Posted By gorgon on 09/28/2007 5:32 PM

So in this case, the new miniatures are spawning the creative design, instead of the other way around.

When has this ever NOT been the case with GW?

The Khorne scorpion thing.

**Asmodai**

Posted By stonefox on 09/28/2007 9:08 PM

Posted By Pariah Press on 09/28/2007 8:13 PM

Posted By gorgon on 09/28/2007 5:32 PM

So in this case, the new miniatures are spawning the creative design, instead of the other way around.

When has this ever NOT been the case with GW?

The Khorne scorpion thing.

Also the Tanith miniatures made in response to the popularity of the Abnett books.

**Toreador**

I am really going to have to wait on this one. Some of it just doesn't make sense. They part about Apoc only.

I would love for them to do another big book like the Realms of Chaos of old. A good fluff book on the warp and the entities within. Allowing them to be armies and or allies for both 40k and WHFB is another cool thing. The fluff is not going to be all that different, just the specifics and rules. I am all for it.

A 40k allies system wouldn't be hard to do, and I would imagine making it Apoc only would be silly. With everything else being good from them lately (in my eyes), this doesn't make much sense. So I will wait and see.