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Had not seen these before, thought maybe they were worth a posting. Source is Saturday Night Killzone, by way of Warseer:

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Bellow is a list of latest rumors that I was able to gather from online forums dedicated to... spreading rumors! From the look of things it seems that we are getting some contradicting info about for example Lost and the Damned, which are now supposed to not be included in the Daemonic codex. However, pared with the fact that Forgeworld is working on the Imerial Armour 5 book (not sure how that will connect to the Siege of Vraak PART I book) it all seems to make sense I guess. With the Orks coming out around Christmas, several new Chaos models already designed (new Daemonettes and Bloodletters) we can rather surely expect this book to be out around summer of 2008.

Repeating after Shebnar:

There will be Daemon Princes, but it will be a 'poor choice': fluff-wise they are despised by Daemons, being half-humans in nature (Alessio's words). It's unclear how (and if) they can be possibly worse than they are actually ... no source confirmed that they can be taken as Heavy Supports, but it is highly probable.

HQ choices will be Greater Daemons and Heralds. Heralds will be 0-2 choice per HQ slot. Heralds cannot be attached to squads with different Marks than their own.

Greater Daemons will be valid units (no more Independent Characters).

Daemonic Gifts will be back again... but it is unclear which ones will come back, and if they will be available only to Heralds, or they will let you customize your Greater Daemons.

There will be a "Daemonic Tank" as Heavy Support choice (Daemonic Engine?): it will be half-daemon/half-vehicle, born out of the wreckages of Predator, Leman Russ etc. which are left in the worlds scourged by warp storms. Alessio referred to it being the 'coolest models he has ever seen'. [Concept below]



ALL Daemons from past editions will be playable again (I'm expecting Beasts of Nurgle and Fiends of Slaanesh!).

Daemonic Special Characters will be detailed (OK, nothing new here... I'm hoping to see Doombreed and Foulspawn again!).

All Daemons will be Fearless and, not being summoned, they will NOT be instable.

An 'all-daemons invasion' in Warhammer 40K occur whenever Warp Gates open and daemonic powers feast upon the innocent inhabitants of the nearby planet.

It will be a HTH-oriented army, though Horrors, Flamers and the new Daemonic Tank/Engine will provide a good amount of firepower.

No words about the 'Unbound Defiler'... which doesn't mean, of course, that it is a fake.

ONLY DAEMONS in this Codex. No Lost and the Damned, no Mutants, no Cultists, no Chaos Space Marines.

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How 'bout that demon engine

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:
How 'bout that demon engine

- Salvage

I think we can safely add it to the list of "5 plastic kits you would buy tomorrow (if GW made them)"

If they successfully translated that concept I will be getting a Deamon army just to put three of them down on the table.

Looking nice, pity about the cultist, though. They are still my favorite style of chaos. Cultist backed up by demons and marines.

Any chance of the chaos and the demon codices (how is it spelled again?) being interchangeable?

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. Despite the fluff, I can't see any predator or leman russ parts on that demon engine. But maybe that means its customizable like the looted wagon...or better not like the looted wagon.

P.P.S. It's always the coolest model they have ever seen.

One thing that worries me is the possibility of more overpowered monstrous creature cheese. Perhaps not on par with Zilla 'nids, but I think unless they balance the vehicle/MC power scale, this could well be a problem. As it stands, I could see 2 Greater Daemons and 3 Princes making for a scary army. Fingers are crossed they price/power balance a little better than 'Nids.

sounds pretty fun
the only thing i can say however is... a lack of cultists or LaTD style make means the list will predominantly be HTH which doesn't sound much like a GW army. Tau are the polar opposites but you can still field a relatively HTH army with a lot of kroot.

I hope more of the new entries will be technomonstrosities like the concept art shown (which is pretty cool). The army won't feel much like a 40k force otherwise, I think.

they're probably going for an old nid style where they expect you to buy 1000 cheapy small demons (guants) to keep stuff busy while 4 or 5 big things do all the killing. Until they do the next version of the demon codex where they decide they're not selling enough demon engines so they allow them to be heavy or elite and then everyone on the interweb whines about godzilla demon armies :p

Actually, depending on how the models look and all, I'm considering a demon legion as my next wfb army. I have a half done kroot beastman army so if I can use some of those too as allies that would be great. And it would be cool if I could mix in a few demon allies for my chaos marines too in 40K. Not really a huge fan of those newer demonettes though, the current metal ones have nicer thingies.

Necros wrote:... the current metal ones have nicer thingies.

x6

More on topic I note that I find nothing wrong with having a really dedicated close combat army in 40k. My Khorne demon bomb used to crunch the living hell out of whatever it went up against, and it was comprised of ... 1 DP, 1 (rather heraldic) Lt, 48 bloodletters, 5 flesh hounds, 1 (bound) defiler. This demon list is smelling awfully familiar

- Salvage

"ONLY DAEMONS in this Codex. No Lost and the Damned, no Mutants, no Cultists, no Chaos Space Marines."

@#$%!!!!

I mean, yay demons and stuff but they've really left L&D or Alpha Legion players out to dry.

Boss_Salvage wrote:There will be Daemon Princes, but it will be a 'poor choice': fluff-wise they are despised by Daemons, being half-humans in nature (Alessio's words). It's unclear how (and if) they can be possibly worse than they are actually ... no source confirmed that they can be taken as Heavy Supports, but it is highly probable.

That pretty much sums up GW rules writing right there.

They have cool fluff for a unit that other Daemons hate it, so they make it weak in the rules... so no one takes it.

Idiots. All of 'em.

BYE

No cultists makes me rather sad.

Someone at GW must really hate LaTD.

Maybe the same people who have it in for the Squats...?

Demons are cool!
Wizards rock!

Boss_Salvage wrote:How 'bout that demon engine

- Salvage

If the plastic Demon Engine kit is a very large version of the current Spawn kit, it will be full of win. If the picture is any indication of the actual kit, you could convert to represent IA Beasts, etc.

Alpharius wrote:No cultists makes me rather sad.

Someone at GW must really hate LaTD.

Maybe the same people who have it in for the Squats...?

off-topic but does it actually say someplace that Eye of Terror LatD is invalidated? Besides references to "Chaos Codex". I mean official GW edict for non-tournament games.

Tacobake wrote:

Alpharius wrote:No cultists makes me rather sad.

Someone at GW must really hate LaTD.

Maybe the same people who have it in for the Squats...?

off-topic but does it actually say someplace that Eye of Terror LatD is invalidated? Besides references to "Chaos Codex". I mean official GW edict for non-tournament games.

The codex is long, long, long out of print, the only place to find the army list online is on the US GW page (where it is listed as unofficial) and it is no longer allowed in any major tournament.

Besides those facts, no they haven't said it is invalidated, but then again they never do for any of their old codices or army lists. They simply let them fade away into obscurity.

This is just wild hope on my part, but I think it might be nice if rules for LatD were included in the forthcoming IG codex. Perhaps the truly chaotic wear big long coats against those long winters in the Eye of Terror...

sounds pretty gavtastic.

Looks like my Chaos 40K army is going to only be a painting project for quite awhile.

Time to dig out the old Tyranids.

mtophat wrote:This is just wild hope on my part, but I think it might be nice if rules for LatD were included in the forthcoming IG codex. Perhaps the truly chaotic wear big long coats against those long winters in the Eye of Terror...

That would be nice. All it would take is an extra doctrine or two.

I just think its a bunch of crap. GW wants everyone to buy more Daemons and start another Chaos army after they castrated the CSM daemons and won't let this codex work with the Lost and the Damned armies that people already have? This list should have been a supplement designed with the CSM codex to tie everything together. If this codex made LatD a more stand alone force or added new units to that army, I would buy it. As it is, I'm not going to buy a new army after they refused to listen to the fans and are trying to cram more models down our gullets.

That Daemon engine looks kind of like something out of Doom, it would be a cool addition to a cultist army, not a whole new army.

Asmodai wrote:

mtophat wrote:This is just wild hope on my part, but I think it might be nice if rules for LatD were included in the forthcoming IG codex. Perhaps the truly chaotic wear big long coats against those long winters in the Eye of Terror...

That would be nice. All it would take is an extra doctrine or two.

That would of course involve there being doctrines in the next Guard codex...

Tacobake wrote:off-topic but does it actually say someplace that Eye of Terror LatD is invalidated? Besides references to "Chaos Codex". I mean official GW edict for non-tournament games.

Actually, the GWUS site declared them "no longer valid." Not much wiggle room there.

Codex Daemons is pretty much a port of the WFB Daemonic Legions army because they figure they can sell the same models for both games. End of story. Why they couldn't have included a few LatD units in the 40K version, I dunno. Seems to me 40K players would get more mileage (and purchases) out of Cultists or Mutants than Fiends of Slaanesh. But I'm sure the fluff will be rewritten to explain that those teeming hordes of Mutants on Daemonworlds no longer exist (prolly eaten by the Tyranids). No Mutants exist anymore, but giant mutant Daemon tanks do! Yay.

My advice...write them a letter and then sign our petition. Those of us writing letters have been including a small chunk of empty sprue to represent their lost sales as a result of this decision.

Isn't it interesting that one of the first questions people ask about the Daemon book is usually something like "So this will include LatD, right?" You'd think GW would have to have noticed that by now.

Asmodai wrote:That would be nice. All it would take is an extra doctrine or two.

It'd take more than that to include D. Princes, CSMs, Mutants, Chaos Hounds, Daemons, etc.

Although at this point I would have accepted the Mutants moving into the Daemon book while Traitors get covered in the new IG codex. It'd at least let players salvage something. But the former isn't happening, so I doubt the latter will.

You know what would be really clever? If they had the Daemon Codex include a line saying: The player may take allied IG as Lost and the Damned using the following force org. chart yadda yadda. by taking the "OMG we are traitorz!" doctrine. They may also take mutants from the adversaries section of the Witch Hunters Codex.

That might be a rather elegant way of letting players put in such rules and minis as they lost use of without having to really do much work. Essentially just point you in the right direction (in other words, point you towards buying two other Codexes.)

Do remember that GeeDub has stated they want to move away from armies that require more than one rules source. Hence C: Black Templars, C: Dark Angels, [unreleased C: Blood Angels, C: Space Pups] including all the marine rules you need to field the army.

Yes, they could make more loot by forcing you to buy more codexes to support any number of odd combination armylists with few to no official models. Instead they've chosen to limit the number of armies available and promise them everlasting support. While I appreciate the one-book policy and all that, I liked the shear variety of the old Andy Chambers / Chapter Approved days.

- Salvage

reds8n-

You Avatar gives me funny feelings.


It really should be a "Lost" and "Damned" Codex. The lost are those lost to the emperor's grace... Traitors. The damned should be all the nasty gribblies from the warp....Mutants and daemons.

ender502

reds8n wrote:

Asmodai wrote:

mtophat wrote:This is just wild hope on my part, but I think it might be nice if rules for LatD were included in the forthcoming IG codex. Perhaps the truly chaotic wear big long coats against those long winters in the Eye of Terror...

That would be nice. All it would take is an extra doctrine or two.

That would of course involve there being doctrines in the next Guard codex...

Good point!

Marine Traits are probably gone too, soon.

It really wouldn't have been hard at all to make "Codex: Daemons" a proper LaTD list too.

It almost seems spiteful not to have done so!

On the topic of veteran skills and traits going bye bye, I, as a CSM player, am solidly in favour of the loyalists no longer having them if we don't have them. Seriously, who is more likely to be an extremely proficient tank hunter: A 150-200 year old Space Marine, or a 10,000 year old Chaos Space Marine?

TragicNut wrote:On the topic of veteran skills and traits going bye bye, I, as a CSM player, am solidly in favour of the loyalists no longer having them if we don't have them. Seriously, who is more likely to be an extremely proficient tank hunter: A 150-200 year old Space Marine, or a 10,000 year old Chaos Space Marine?

You do have them. They're just called Khorne, Nurgle, etc instead of "Hardened Fighters!!11!!" or what have you. I doubt traits go anywhere but I can certainly see them more limited with bigger drawbacks.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"ONLY DAEMONS in this Codex. No Lost and the Damned, no Mutants, no Cultists, no Chaos Space Marines."

@#$%!!!!

I mean, yay demons and stuff but they've really left L&D or Alpha Legion players out to dry.

If the rumors are true, that will just confirm my decision not to use the abortion that is the new C:CSM, but to use the previous edition and only run my Chaos armies in friendly/non-tournament games. It will likewise motivate me never to use this latest mess either.

The way they're going, I expect GW to bring out Codex: Pan Fo any time now

Jeez! You guys are the whiniest bunch of whiny whiners I've ever seen!! You can still use your LatD! Just use the rules in Apocalypse! Jeez!! And if you don't like that then use Imperial Guard and "counts as"!! Jeez!!!

TragicNut wrote:Seriously, who is more likely to be an extremely proficient tank hunter: A 150-200 year old Space Marine, or a 10,000 year old Chaos Space Marine?

The Spase Marien! (hurr!)

LordOfTheSloths wrote:The way they're going, I expect GW to bring out Codex: Pan Fo any time now

I don't. Because that would be AWESOME. And the way GW is going is the opposite of AWESOME. Here, I'll draw a diagram to illustrate:

==================GW
AWESOME=============

See? Note that GW and AWESOME are heading in opposite directions. Also note that GW and AWESOME are observing the rules of the road and are driving on the left side of the street (because they're in England). Remember - drive safely and always buckle your safety belt!

Wehrkind wrote:You know what would be really clever? If they had the Daemon Codex include a line saying: The player may take allied IG as Lost and the Damned using the following force org. chart yadda yadda. by taking the "OMG we are traitorz!" doctrine. They may also take mutants from the adversaries section of the Witch Hunters Codex.

That might be a rather elegant way of letting players put in such rules and minis as they lost use of without having to really do much work. Essentially just point you in the right direction (in other words, point you towards buying two other Codexes.)

You know what would be even more clever? Let's make it really hard for players to use minis they already own by invalidating their rules. Then they'll all go out and buy different minis! After they see the shiny new daemon codex they'll forget all about how angry they were that their mutants had their rules invalidated. Because the folks in marketing assure us that the average player is a slow who loves the taste of piss.