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twinner wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:
Is there a way to DS purifiers or puragation?

Allied Space Wolves and a FA Drop Pod

So with 7th edition. I can ally with SW, take a FA drop pod, and then take 2 min units of grey hunters and stick 2 more unit of 5 purifiers in the pods with them. So now I have 3 deep-striking purifiers squads?

Actually you can only put Units in their Dedicated Drop Pods.
Only the FA one can you put BB Allied units in.

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:
Is there a way to DS purifiers or puragation?

Allied Space Wolves and a FA Drop Pod

So with 7th edition. I can ally with SW, take a FA drop pod, and then take 2 min units of grey hunters and stick 2 more unit of 5 purifiers in the pods with them. So now I have 3 deep-striking purifiers squads?

Actually you can only put Units in their Dedicated Drop Pods.
Only the FA one can you put BB Allied units in.

Are you sure about that? This is the first I am hearing of this.

Yep - you can take Pods as a FA choice - allies shenanigans!

Super Newb wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:
Is there a way to DS purifiers or puragation?

Allied Space Wolves and a FA Drop Pod

So with 7th edition. I can ally with SW, take a FA drop pod, and then take 2 min units of grey hunters and stick 2 more unit of 5 purifiers in the pods with them. So now I have 3 deep-striking purifiers squads?

Actually you can only put Units in their Dedicated Drop Pods.
Only the FA one can you put BB Allied units in.

Are you sure about that? This is the first I am hearing of this.

Well Battle Brothers can now use Allied Transports. [BRB pg 557]
Only Unit that the Dedicated Transport was taken may start the game embarked + any attached ICs [BRB pg 504]
Space Wolves can take a Drop Pod [or Rhino or Razorback] as a Fast Attack Choice

I keep trying to find a justification to give a unit, any unit, Nemesis Falchions because I love the look of them but I just can't do it. An extra attack is just not worth 4 pts especially when the +1S Halberd is only 2 pts, to say nothing of how Hammerhand now makes taking even just the swords viable.

 daedalus wrote:
On the GKSS I am. I'll probably leave the psycannons on the purifiers, simply because I use the 3rd ed PAGK for my purifiers. I am going to run the SS as interceptors though.

Replacing the back packs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Well Battle Brothers can now use Allied Transports. [BRB pg 557]
Only Unit that the Dedicated Transport was taken may start the game embarked + any attached ICs [BRB pg 504]
Space Wolves can take a Drop Pod [or Rhino or Razorback] as a Fast Attack Choice

This is a viable option.
I'd mount Purifiers with incinerators in a Pod.

Hi guys,

This may already have been scooped (as Codex: Orks does the same thing with Truks) but...

In Codex: Grey Knights, does anyone else think you can now buy Rhinos and Razorbacks on their own as Fast Attack choices, without them being Dedicated Transports?

We can argue why you would _want_ to, but this seems a bit of a change.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Edit: Just read the posts above about the Space Wolf Drop Pod

Well, I think its not the case that GK have Rhinos or Razorbacks as FA choices.
Could somebody with the new codex confirm this?

They are Fast Attack.

Yeah I did notice that they had the Fast Attack icon on their respective pages. Kind of cool.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
On the GKSS I am. I'll probably leave the psycannons on the purifiers, simply because I use the 3rd ed PAGK for my purifiers. I am going to run the SS as interceptors though.

Replacing the back packs?

Oh, yeah. Totally. They're not magnetized currently, but I might do that too while I have them pulled apart, just on the off chance that GW fixes psycannons in a faq or something.

 daedalus wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
On the GKSS I am. I'll probably leave the psycannons on the purifiers, simply because I use the 3rd ed PAGK for my purifiers. I am going to run the SS as interceptors though.

Replacing the back packs?

Oh, yeah. Totally. They're not magnetized currently, but I might do that too while I have them pulled apart, just on the off chance that GW fixes psycannons in a faq or something.

To fix them they need to perceive that Psycannons are broken, so that is not going to happen.

I'm just really bummed that they didn't go back to 36". I could deal with salvo then. It'd be like the good old days.

 daedalus wrote:
I'm just really bummed that they didn't go back to 36". I could deal with salvo then. It'd be like the good old days.

Yeh, just that one change would make everyone would want to take Grey Knight Allies. PAGK would be able to move and shoot at 18", while Terminators could do the same at 36". It wouldn't be overpowered because we don't have access to the heavy weapons everyone else gets on their infantry (Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers, Plasma Cannons, Multi-meltas, etc). It would just make Grey Knights more than a 1 trick pony.

Hmmmm, interesting tidbit I noticed here. It would seem your HQ is allowed to take a personal teleporter for a mere 10 points.

although risky, a Grand master with a PT could theoretically jump out of his unit to jump over bubblewrap units to get to the squishier units behind it? Or hell, maybe even tackle monsterous creatures singlehandedly that way? Or am I missing something here that wouldn't allow it?

But every new Codex has nerfed the Psycannon, so the next one after this will probably turn it into just 12" Heavy 2, making it worthless on everything.

Daemonhunters got 3 shots at 36" that ignored Invulnerable Saves

5th Grey Knights had a 24" range with Assault 2 or Heavy 4, Rending.

7th Grey Knights get 12" range 2 shots that prevent charging, or 24" range 4 shots they only get if they're stationary or relentless, and still prevents charging (EDIT: for PAGK).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elmir wrote:
Hmmmm, interesting tidbit I noticed here. It would seem your HQ is allowed to take a personal teleporter for a mere 10 points.

although risky, a Grand master with a PT could theoretically jump out of his unit to jump over bubblewrap units to get to the squishier units behind it? Or hell, maybe even tackle monsterous creatures singlehandedly that way? Or am I missing something here that wouldn't allow it?

Teleport Homer, not Personal Teleporter. The first reduces scatter of DS close to him, the second is a essentially a jump pack.

Hmmmm, interesting tidbit I noticed here. It would seem your HQ is allowed to take a personal teleporter for a mere 10 points.

Would be nice if they could but I think you may have gotten confused with teleport homer.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

twinner wrote:
Is there a way to DS purifiers or puragation?

Allied Space Wolves and a FA Drop Pod

So with 7th edition. I can ally with SW, take a FA drop pod, and then take 2 min units of grey hunters and stick 2 more unit of 5 purifiers in the pods with them. So now I have 3 deep-striking purifiers squads?

Actually you can only put Units in their Dedicated Drop Pods.
Only the FA one can you put BB Allied units in.

Are you sure about that? This is the first I am hearing of this.

Well Battle Brothers can now use Allied Transports. [BRB pg 557]
Only Unit that the Dedicated Transport was taken may start the game embarked + any attached ICs [BRB pg 504]
Space Wolves can take a Drop Pod [or Rhino or Razorback] as a Fast Attack Choice

Ah ok. So ICs from another cad or allied force or other formation can hitch a ride on dedicated transports. But a unit from that other force has to use the fast attack drop pod. Got it.

 WisdomLS wrote:

Hmmmm, interesting tidbit I noticed here. It would seem your HQ is allowed to take a personal teleporter for a mere 10 points.

Would be nice if they could but I think you may have gotten confused with teleport homer.

Yes, it would seem so... Shame! Oh well... *tries to make this codex work some more*

I did manage to get a list together with 2 nemesis teleport detachments with 1 Librarian, 1 HQ, 2 termie squads, 4 dreadknights and a stormraven with locator beacon for quick relocations.

ForeverARookie wrote:
But every new Codex has nerfed the Psycannon, so the next one after this will probably turn it into just 12" Heavy 2, making it worthless on everything.

Daemonhunters got 3 shots at 36" that ignored Invulnerable Saves

5th Grey Knights had a 24" range with Assault 2 or Heavy 4, Rending.

7th Grey Knights get 12" range 2 shots that prevent charging, or 24" range 4 shots they only get if they're stationary or relentless, and still prevents charging.


Teleport Homer, not Personal Teleporter. The first reduces scatter of DS close to him, the second is a essentially a jump pack.

Yo, can relentless units still charge after shooting the psycannon? Relentless can still charge after firing salvo, right? Or can you just not take these on terminators...

Relentless units can fire heavy weapons (or e.g. salvo weapons) and charge afterwards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/611646.page

I put up a discussion on Halberd changes if anyone is interested.

I really don't think the change to salvo for psycannons is that big for PAGKs. They are great at forming a static fire base on an objective. Most tactics using fast, manouverable units require a static unit to draw in the enemy and strike squads do that well. If you want to move you can still shoot 12" and if you want to charge you get S7 attacks with halberds and hammer hand so psycannon shots won't be missed too much. From the comments of most people here you would think they had become heavy 1 S3 and cost 50pts each.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
I really don't think the change to salvo for psycannons is that big for PAGKs. They are great at forming a static fire base on an objective. Most tactics using fast, manouverable units require a static unit to draw in the enemy and strike squads do that well. If you want to move you can still shoot 12" and if you want to charge you get S7 attacks with halberds and hammer hand so psycannon shots won't be missed too much. From the comments of most people here you would think they had become heavy 1 S3 and cost 50pts each.

The cost of Psycannons went up 50% for PAGK. The mobile range dropped 50%, and they can no longer assault after firing with it. It is now the worst deal in the Grey Knight book. The worst part is that it would have been fine, and even praised if they gave it a 36" range. The mobile range would have been 18", shorter than before, but still long enough to be useful. And the 36" range would be sufficient reason to consider having stationary units. As it is though, a stationary PAGK unit will be obliterated with the ranged weapons of literally every other faction, because Psycannons only reach out to 24", while the other factions have infantry portable weapons that reach out to 36" or 48". All we have is the Conversion Beamer, and being a blast with scatter makes it too unreliable to depend on.

So the PAGK Psycannon might as well have the ridiculous profile you mentioned, as both are worthless in 7th edition competitive play.

ForeverARookie wrote:

The cost of Psycannons went up 50% for PAGK. The mobile range dropped 50%, and they can no longer assault after firing with it. It is now the worst deal in the Grey Knight book. The worst part is that it would have been fine, and even praised if they gave it a 36" range. The mobile range would have been 18", shorter than before, but still long enough to be useful. And the 36" range would be sufficient reason to consider having stationary units. As it is though, a stationary PAGK unit will be obliterated with the ranged weapons of literally every other faction, because Psycannons only reach out to 24", while the other factions have infantry portable weapons that reach out to 36" or 48". All we have is the Conversion Beamer, and being a blast with scatter makes it too unreliable to depend on.

So the PAGK Psycannon might as well have the ridiculous profile you mentioned, as both are worthless in 7th edition competitive play.

Not to mention a greater than 24" range would make purgation squads actually a viable unit choice to mix in with DKs. Right now there is literally zero reason to ever take a purgation squad.

You are right, it's extremely poorly thought out. In fact, With only purgation squads in there, NDK and landraiders, there's no real choice but NDK... Especially if you can get LRs as dedicated transports now in the troop section for the only viable troop choice left as well....

Oh well, the parts that actually are good make it a workable codex... It'll just be ridiculously mono build-like. Very bland.

Apparently Assassins is out, and the Culexus is a dedicated murderer of all Psykers. So we lose half our units, and one of them is retrofitted to murder us. Brilliant.

That really isn't a retrofit... He's always been pushed into that battlefield role. He just got a whole lot more effective at it, that's all!

I'm sort of happy that they do have an anti-invisibilty/other psychic buff model now though. Something that just directly counters psychic deathstars (seercounsil, screamerstar). I think people who invested a lot in those types of units will be somewhat annoyed.

For GKs, facing one of these assassins will suck as well. But given the alpha strike nature of heavy deepstriking models with lots of stormbolter shots, I don't think he'll be on the board that long.

On the other hand, what does annoy me somewhat, is the internal balance again in this dataslate. When reading the rules, this is how it wen for met:

Vindicare: pretty decent, nothing too insane

Calidus: meh

Eversor: Cool, has it's uses...

Culexus: WTF!!!

And this is sort of indicative of a lot of the releases made so far. some insane stuff tossed in a sea of meh... I hope that will get somewhat better, or the cherry picking from different imperial codexes is going to get out of hand :s

As the book is now out going to lock this thread.

Good gaming everyone