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Vampire Counts was my first army, nearly 14 years ago so I am really excited about the new release (except for what they did to my ghouls). This is the first list I've put together with the new book, I tried to avoid some of the obvious power combos for a more all round force.

1 - Vampire Lord - 445
- Extra Level, Master of the Black Arts (+2 Power Dice), Walking Death (+1 CR), Lord of the Dead (can increase Skeletons beyond starting size)
- Sword of Might (+1 S), Walachs Bloody Hauberk (4+/5+ Save), Enchanted Shield (+2 Save), Black Periapt (can keep a dice between magic phases)

1 - Vampire - 190
- Red Fury, Sword of Battle (+1 A), Flayed Hauberk (2+ Save)

1 - Vampire - 185
- Hunter in the Dark (Scout), Avatar of Death (Heavy Armor, Great Weapon), Talisman of the Lycni (M 9), Wristbands of Black Gold (3+ Ward vs. Shooting)

1 - Necromancer - 120
- 1 extra spell, 2 x Dispel Scrolls, Rides the Corpse Cart

14 - Skeletons - 171
- Spears, Shields, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion (double Unit Strength)

14 - Skeletons - 157
- Hand Weapon, Shield, Full Command, War Banner

18 - Ghouls - 152
- Ghast

6 - Dire Wolves - 48

6 - Dire Wolves - 48

6 - Black Knights - 253
Full Command, Banner of the Barrows, Barding

1 - Corpse Cart - 100
- Unholy Lodestone

2 - Spirit Host - 130

Basic premise is to raise the skeletons in the first couple turns, use the superior fighting power of the vampires to win any combats I chose to fight in, cover my flanks with ghouls and wolves and send the ghosts and the scouting vampire to take down enemy missile troops and warmachines. Black knights are for the flank charge or to take down other knights.

Any comments, criticism?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The base of the list seems fine. Here's some tips to tweak things for the better (imo), though:

The lord can't have unfortunately have both hauberk and the enchanted shield as both of those are magical armor (yes, even if the other is a shield and the other a suit). I also seriously recommend giving both the footslogging vampires a pony as they'll often need the extra movement and a pip for armor save. The lord in particular appreciates both, altough the thrall won't benefit from the latter. Getting spirit hosts by other means than summoning the via the winds of death is kinda meh, especially when they are only 2 bases. I'd rather take some more hitty support such as Varghulf. I like the hatred banner on black knights better especially if you happen to join a vampire to them now and then. Good point is that the steeds will get the rerolls too. The banner of barrows should generally have the helm of commandment on a vampire as a combo to get the most out of it. Taking a bsb (upgrading the second thrall for that) is a very good option, as the 25 pts will give you 2 very good abilites.

What don't you like about Ghouls now, other than the fact that, much like every other attempt at Ghouls by GW (or Dire Wolves, or Vampires, especially female ones), they are craptacular in appearance?

Chaoslord: Good point about the shield, I thought that since it was a common item it'd be fine. I have some extra points, maybe I'll take the sceptre of Noirot instead. I thought about a varghulf instead of the spirit hosts, but I don't have the model yet and I do have the hosts. I will probably end up that way in the end. I'll probably remove the banner from the Black Knights and use the 45 points to pay for the varghulf. I'm not thrilled with a BSB for this force as I don't plan on losing a combat.

Alpharius: I liked my ghouls skirmishing. They were perfect for covering my flanks and taking on and beating light cav or other skirmishers. I also don't like the new plastic ghouls (though they'll actually rank up) but after putting my new dire wolves together, I like them and they are better than the old ones (not that that's hard).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:1 - Vampire - 185
- Hunter in the Dark (Scout), Avatar of Death (Heavy Armor, Great Weapon), Talisman of the Lycni (M 9), Wristbands of Black Gold (3+ Ward vs. Shooting)

Impressive LVoD build, been waiting to see what the new book could cook up. 185 points seems pretty heavy comparing against the JSoD and Alter Noble versions, but the über shooting save, fear and being a caster are all definite boosts. Scout too so he can hide, hop out, weather 1 round of fire and then ruin somebody's day.

The rest of the list strikes me as fairly slow though. Just the BK and JVoD can really reach out and hurt things, the rest slog it up and get those 2 bloated skeleton units into action, with ghouls and wolves doing their thing.

- Salvage

Ozymandias wrote:1 - Vampire - 185
- Hunter in the Dark (Scout), Avatar of Death (Heavy Armor, Great Weapon), Talisman of the Lycni (M 9), Wristbands of Black Gold (3+ Ward vs. Shooting)

18 - Ghouls - 152
- Ghast

Interesting option the scout vampire, but you must eat one entire shooting turn before charge, and if you use ghoulkin instead hunting in the dark, so, if you join the vampire with the ghouls, you can charge on the first turn at a 26" (8" from the marching ghouls, and 18" from the Lycni's movement) and if you don't get the first turn it doen't matter because your character are shielded into the unit. You can also change the wristbands armour of night, because is a good item too, giving -3 to hit penalty when a enemy shoots you.

Ozymandias wrote:2 - Spirit Host - 130

You can only field spirit hosts on groups of 3-10 bases.

What! They changed that? Good catch. Ok, so looks like I'll be dropping the banner of Barrows and maybe a couple other things to fit in a third base (or a Varghulf)...

RE: Scout Vampire:
I'm not too worried about one round of shooting, I can use terrain, LOS, the fact that I am a lone model to limit the amount of shots coming his way.

As for the speed, well, Skeletons are always going to be fairly slow. My list in 6th was actually pretty similar and I didn't have too much of a hard time as usually the enemy is moving forward as well. Vs. Wood Elves, Gunline Empire, and maybe Dwarves (though I'm less worried about the Dwarves), I will have some problems but that is where the Spirit Hosts, wolves, and Scouting Vampire come into play (he is fast enough to catch any Wood Elf units and will win vs all but maybe Wardancers).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Would Fly be better than Scout + Talisman of Lycni? I could put him in a unit then fly out to charge 20".

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:Would Fly be better than Scout + Talisman of Lycni? I could put him in a unit then fly out to charge 20".

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The flying has it's pros, altough with scouting you can marchblock better if you get the 1st turn.
I like this kind of guy (for harassing) at least on paper, altough he's a bit more expensive:

Vampire Pegasus Captn
lvl1, Hellsteed
P: Avatar of Death (ha+hw+s), Infinite Hatred
I: Balefire Spike, Wristbands of Black Gold
-205

flying,3+ armor and ward vs shooting, packs a good punch in combat too.

Ok, played first game, 1,000 points. Got tabled and only managed to kill one unit of Night Goblins. Made some errors (that I'll blame on too much time playing Wood Elves) and learned some of this forces strengths and weaknesses. Below is my new 2,000 point list.

Vampire Lord
2nd Level, +2 power dice, Lord of the Dead, Infinite Hatred, Walachs Bloody Hauberk, Black Periapt, Sword of Might, Power Stone
Vampire
Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk
Vampire
Scout, Avatar of Death, Talisman of the Lycni, Wristbands of Black Gold
Necromancer
+2 extra spells, Power Stone, Dispel Scroll

13 - Skeleton Warriors
HW, Shield, Full Command, Light Armor, War Banner
21 - Zombies
Standard Bearer, Musician
12 - Ghouls
Ghast
14 - Grave Guard - 223
Hand Weapon, Shield, Heavy Armor, Full Command, Banner of Dead Legion
6 - Black Knights
Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance, Barded Skeletal Steeds, Full Command
5 - Dire Wolves
4 - Fell Bats
1 - Varghulf

This list is a bit faster and I can double team the varghulf and the scouting vamp to take down units. The Skeletons and Wights hold the center with the ghouls and zombies watching my flanks. Black Knights and Wolves engage enemy light cav and missile troops with the Varghulf and Scouting Vamps take down Warmachines and other missile troops. Necro and Vamp go into Skeletons and Lord goes in to Wights.

What do you think of this list compared to the previous?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

If you want speed, switch your core to ghouls, run a vamp w/ghoulkin and summon ghouls. Being able to charge 24 inches with a dansed infantry unit first turn isn't too shabby.

For the amount of points your vamp is already, you could take the uber vampire of death. Aka auto-hit lance plus that power that gives you attack for everyone you kill. Easy 6-8 kills on the charge with the vamp alone.

I could, but then I'd be using the same Vamp as everyone else.

I was trying to avoid the obvious power builds as most of my games are with my local group and not that competitive. My idea was to take a Vamp who could kick butt in cc but also be dangerous with spells.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Regarding the latter list, adding battle standard for the non-scouting hero would be quite useful I think. You'll get some extra combat res for the block where you place this guy and he helps vs crumbling too. And it's not even expensive.

That's not a bad idea, better than spending 25 points on Walking Death for sure.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ok, so I tried out the Scouting Vamp. Disappointed. With only 3 attacks he was a bit of a letdown.

And now I'm just going to take a Varghulf. Will lose 1 power and dispel die, but the Varghulf is just mean.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I was going to say that you need to scracht the host but you already did. Try wraiths too, they rock once more.

M.

Ozymandias wrote:Ok, so I tried out the Scouting Vamp. Disappointed. With only 3 attacks he was a bit of a letdown.

And now I'm just going to take a Varghulf. Will lose 1 power and dispel die, but the Varghulf is just mean.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The scouting vamp really needs the hatred to get through things but in that case, he hasn't points for avatar of death. Choices, choices...
And yes, Varghulf is mean.

CL - That was the problem, with only 3 attacks he'd have to kill 2 to win combat against anything higher US than him. That's hard. A WE or Saurus you can count on to probably stay even if they lose but a Vampire will just go pop right away.

I'll be using a Varghulf (or two) from now on.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yeah, I think the Varg does everything a Lycni vampire wants to do but better. He has more attacks, infinite hatred, regen, etc. and doesn't eat a character slot. I still like my Lycni, but I use him more for mobile support. 3 S7 inf. hatred swings can help clear out cav in one of my infantry units, for example. Also the corpse cart miasma (which I keep right behind my infantry) helps in case he gets stuck in a while. He is also fairly useful with a dire wolf pack bodyguard.

And wraiths can be absolutely evil, especially if the helm is anywhere nearby.

I may have to try these wraiths you speak of. A unit of 3 or 4 would be great for taking down other skirmishers and light cav, those units rarely have any form of magical attack.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

wraiths are good for protecting flanks but eat rare slots and are hurt by spells like fireball, i love my black coaches it allows me to have a slvanian army (lead by manfred) but they may not work in your army.

Hey this is a really good set up for a HUGE boost for a unit and a vampire/Lord and can take up ALOT of points but can be a decider for close calls.


Vampire
super natural horror
Infinite Hatred
BSB Drakenhof Banner

Vampire Lord
Infinite Hatred
Forbidden Lore
Dark Acolyte
Helm of Commandment
Gem of blood
Flayed Hauberk
Biting Blade
Talisman of protection
Extra Magic level
MAYBE Hellsteed if you don't wont him to join the unit

Grave Guard
Senneschal
Musician
SB Banner of the Dead legion
Great wepons


This can be very flexible and can be set up to your liking but this way your Vampire and guard have S10 and WS7, your lord is a level 4 wizard and can have all the spells from any lore (except the lore of life which knd of sucks anyway) my favorite is the lore of metal or shadow also this cost about 800 points so if you are going to have anything else have skeletons or ghouls and it is always good to have a corpse cart around for the always strike rule.

Kid in the woods,

Why don`t you start your own thread rather than bring back a dead one from last year? Link this thread in yours if you want to compare both armies. That way your opinion will be more interesting and fresh.

M.