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CadianCommander wrote:Huh? You serious? I moved to Perth two and a half years ago. Barely did my feet hit the tarmac and I was told where the FLGS in the CBD is. In London Court. Every Perth gamer knows where it is, right? And there's a heap of clubs. There's a forum called WA Gamer or something should be able to find out more.
Ooohh...unless you think FLGS is the name of a chain of stores rather than any friendly shop that sells exclusively gaming stuff.

Tactics, at least by my definition, is not a gaming store. They don't have gaming tables, except for Magic, unless I've somehow manage to walk past them for the last 10 years. I support them where I can by buying all of my paints and other supplies there.

And also... how are you people building a 1000pt army for $300? I calculated my 1000pt army would have cost nearly $600 at RRP.

I'll admit that you couldn't ask for a more convenient, prominent location than the GW Perth store, but I find the tables too small (and always taken up with demo games), and the staff swing between too cliquey with their regular customers and too pushy (serious sales pitch: O, I see you came in you buy a new pot of Sorched brown. Do you know what looks good in scorched brown? this BANEBLADE!). I prefer playing at the Kwinana club, especially due to the large number of BFG players down there.

Travsi wrote:
Tactics, at least by my definition, is not a gaming store.

Tactics only sell gaming products. How are they not a gaming store? Just because they're not set up for people to play wargaming doesn't make them not a FLGS. Perth has lots of wargaming clubs plus the three GWs. Tactics are the one big and only place to go for roleplaying books and CCGs as well as stocking many different wargames, wargaming products, Cthulu plushies and board games for those who take good board games (like Fantasy Flight) seriously. They can't cater for everything and everyone. With the multitude of other places people can play the games they sell, they don't need to.

Tabitha wrote:
I only went to the Games Workshop in the mall in perth when I was there. I was there during the planet strike release (day of actually). I believe I bought some sentinals. There were alot of young kids, but the staff was very friendly, and even though the store was small that mall is awesome, so its a great location. Lots of great eatting just past the train station to the north of it too, a very good area. I would rather have a small nice GW store in a good location then a big sprawling LGS in some gakky area with a disgruntled and smelly owner any day. If I lived in Perth I think I wouldnt have any problem using the GW in the mall as my gaming store.

The guys in all the GW stores are top notch. When I first got into 40k at no stage was I made to feel ignorant or foolish because the ten year old ankle biters running around my feet knew more about the mechanics of the game than I did or, by the same token, patronised me, or overwhelmed me with information thinking I knew more than I did. My b/f and I spend a lot of time at two of the stores because the staff are so friendly and the atmosphere is great. One of them is now in our Death Watch rpg group. (Reason we don't go to the third store is it's too far for us). They really are a great bunch of guys. And I was surprised not long after I joined the forum when someone made a crack (no ill will intended mind you) about being surprised at the female wargamer. At our GW stores, sometimes up to half the people at the table are female. There's none of this "hot girl in the comic shop and I didn't know what to do" feel to any of the gaming stores here, GW or Tactics.

In all this ridiculousness that's coming out of GW I feel really sorry for the staffers that work in the shops. They are a wonderful bunch of people, passionate about their job and hobby and introducing others to it and helping those who share their passion further the hobby.

Breaks my damn li'l heart.

...I hope this doesn't flag as a double post cos else this is going to be a stupidly long thread by me on different aspects of this situation.

However, a friend of mine wrote a letter to Mark Wells and very kindly has allowed me to post it here for all to see, so long as his name and email address were removed. So without further ado:

-----Original Message-----
From: Bestia
Sent: 23 May 2011 15:11
To: HobbyService; UK Web Orders; US Customer Service; Investor
Relations; Mark Wells; dan@theeternalwarriors.com;
11thcompany@tangtwo.com; contact@imperialvoxcast.com;
Lounge@Gamerslounge.coda.net; mail@worldsendradio.com
Subject: Open Letter to Mark Wells

Dear Mark Wells

Thanks for the copy and paste reply to the concerns of Gamers worldwide. The five minutes you took to dodge the issue was very telling. Now let me address your points in your open letter.

"As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centers and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centers run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us."

This maybe the case in America and the UK, this is not the case here in Australia. Here club's play in local scout halls and community centers, without any support from Games Workshop or their stores. We run tournaments, club days, and painting sessions, all off our own back, and at cost to ourselves.

"Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way."

Again this might be the case in the UK, but here in Australia, most of the hobbyists come across our gaming clubs, and either buy or are given a small army to start with, and then buy their own army up.

"In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centers and trade accounts."

Yet you have rule books and models that have not been update for over 10 years. On top of that you have a number of incomplete model lines and have decided to completely ignore a very strong and loyal community, the blood bowl community.

"It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas."

The reason many of the Australian Hobbyists go to the European internet traders is simple. You mark up the cost on Australian prices - 70% to 120%, regardless of the exchange rate, but more on that later.

"While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimize their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base."


This is great in the long run for Australian hobbyists, because again Games Workshop don't invest any money in the local scene either.

"The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centers, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do."

Again, if there was realistic results from your product development it wouldn't be such a big issue. But for a company that strongly refuses to get involved in the tournament scene. Nor give anything back to the Australian community; this at least to me translates to "Increase our sales margin as the number of units we are selling are decreasing".

Podcasts like The Eternal Warriors, Imperial Vox Cast, Independent Characters, The 11th Company, The Gamers Lounge, World's End Radio, have done more for encouraging and keeping gamers playing 40k then Games workshop has done in the last 12 years I have been playing this game.

"That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe."

While the actions were legitimate, they come across as money grabbing and immoral; attempting to milk the average gamer of everything they have, up to the point where they will not put up with anymore. On top of that Games Workshop as decreased cost creating their miniatures, they increase the price.

While I understand Games Workshop is a company that is at the end of the day trying to make a profit, please understand why Games Workshop will never get another dollar from my hobby fund. But I must thank you, because of your choices; I have found games like War Machine, Malifuax, Firestorm Armada, and Dystopian Wars. As well hobby supplies from Miniatures supplies from Reaper and Gale Force 9.

Thank you for understanding, and I hope that your choices do not lead to the closure of Games Workshop
Bestia
23/05/11

Now...the response?

From: "Investor Relations" <InvestorRelations@games-workshop.co.uk>
Date: May 24, 2011 18:28:43 GMT+08:00
To: Bestia
Subject: RE: Open Letter to Mark Wells

Dear Bestia,

I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems we are not going to agree on these issues. There's not much else I can say but thanks for making your feelings known to me.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Wells

At least he replied. There was no way he could suddenly admit you're right.

What the??!! That was Marks reply? They took the time to write a great email with lots of valid points and his reply is basically thanks for the email, I will file this with the others in the bin! Oh how I miss the early 90's GW, you actually felt part of something back then... :( Well I'm going to continue ordering from FW as of course I collect DKOK and any other bits I need I will get from Dark Sphere or eBay. And since me and my Fiancee have recently got into Malifaux, Wyrd will be getting my cash also.

...What?!?!

That 2 page email with well though arguements, get's that pathetic 2 line answer?
WHAT?!

CadianCommander wrote: Just because they're not set up for people to play wargaming doesn't make them not a FLGS.

It would appear to... at least by Mark Wells' definition.

Both from booksellers and more ...digital methods.

So your a pirate? Disgusting.

Insaniak wrote
It would appear to... at least by Mark Wells' definition.

Nah, they sell GW stuff so according to Mark Wells they're freeloading.

withershadow wrote:Drugs have become more expensive as a hobby, does that count?

And ammo prices have gone way up. I've forgotten the last time I left the range not having just turned $150 into noise and gunsmoke.

Frazzled wrote:

Le Grognard wrote:
If you ever worked a Gen Con and had to put up with the constant yelling from their area every 20 minutes, them not showing up anymore was a blessing.

Que?

Every 20 minutes, some neckbeard idiot would shout WAAAAGH!! and all the other lemmings would join in.

Jeez, thats just pathetic.


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Capt. Rex wrote:...What?!?!

That 2 page email with well though arguements, get's that pathetic 2 line answer?
WHAT?!

Why on earth would you expect 1) a reply; 2) anything more than that? You sent a general email. BFD.

Personally, Frazzled I respond to corporate emails all day every day. It's my job. I teach other people how to do it. I write procedures and templates on how to write professional emails from the company to the general public.

That response would have me hauling someone's arse to the TL's office.

That's kind of the response I'm expecting to my letter as I basically said that was it.

I guess if you state forcefully that you're going to stop buying their products, he's not not going to bend over backwards (or forwards ) to change your mind.

You can almost hear Mark Wells filing it. In a shredder.

*Shrug* I'm suprised he took the time to respond at all, I assume he's reasonably busy and is getting quite a lot of hatemail right now.

I think GW stores do carry out a pretty valuable function in getting more players into the hobby, but I also know from my own experience that the hobby can grow without a GW or even a local store. I grew up in rural Ireland and the only place that stocked miniatures was the Toymaster in town, they didn't have the full range and they didn't offer any hobby support of any kind, nor did I expect any. As a teenager I set up a gaming board in my bedroom, saved my money from part time jobs and hoarded christmas and birthday presents and bought or made my own scenery from model railway suppliers. I had a group of 8 other gamers who I got interested by showing them the books and lending them miniatures.
The point is, kids will get into this stuff if they are interested and the price isn't too high. (Back then, miniatures were a good bit cheaper than computer games). They don't absolutely NEED a GW store, though no doubt it helps.
The same is true all over ireland, as only the major cities have FLGS and only Dublin has GW. Most of the population is rural, and yet wargaming is pretty healthy there.

GW's principal objective is to get more n00bs into the GW HHHobby.

I recognise that they need to get new people buying, I am only interested in what GW can do for me as a vet.

Once their n00b facing activities become more important than their attempts to attract me, naturally I lose interest.

I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

KingDeath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

Erm, no? What do you mean "erm no" does that one sentence describe the complex mechanics of capitalism does it? "Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competitive"

Horse gak.

The point of having a business is making fething money. Say I have a few grands worth of stocks in GW, I want them to make as much cash as possible. Simple.

Its not "making yourself more competitive by lowering prices" its making mother fething money.

If you don't need to make yourself more competitive, then you don't need to lower prices. If you make a pill that cures cancer, why do you need to sell it cheap if your the only bloke selling it? Should Blizzard charge 4 euros less a month for a wow sub to be "more competitive" even though they are blowing every other MMO away and ergo don't need to be more competitive?

As I said, your talking nonsense.

GW are confident they can charge more and still sell almost as many minis, they must think it will make higher profits, so that's their decision. If GW have gone bankrupt in 18 months, ill bow to your superior knowledge and concede defeat, but otherwise, you fail. And im guessing your going to fail.

If GW go bankrupt in the next 18 months, your smart and can "erm no" me as much as you like.

If they don't, I win.

mattyrm wrote:
Erm, no? What do you mean "erm no" does that one sentence describe the complex mechanics of capitalism does it? "Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competitive"

Horse gak.

The point of having a business is making fething money. Say I have a few grands worth of stocks in GW, I want them to make as much cash as possible. Simple.

Its not "making yourself more competitive by lowering prices" its making mother fething money.

I think you're both wrong. "The purpose of business is to provide a service, to the mutual benefit of two or more parties" That means making money but not to the detriment of service; that is the difference between an ethical and unethical business.

Capitalism, is simply an economic system where by the investments into economic activity are freely held privately, rather than by state or other cooperative body.

mattyrm wrote:
GW are confident they can charge more and still sell almost as many minis, they must think it will make higher profits, so that's their decision. If GW have gone bankrupt in 18 months, ill bow to your superior knowledge and concede defeat, but otherwise, you fail. And im guessing your going to fail.

I tend to think GW's CEO's main concern has less to do with profit optimization and more stock price consistency. They're too short sighted in the ways that matter to their fan base. The fact is their volume of sales fell about ~10% the last time they raised prices, but their revnue stayed the same. GW is on a steady course of moving themselves from a highend casual market into a purely luxury market.

mattyrm wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

Erm, no? What do you mean "erm no" does that one sentence describe the complex mechanics of capitalism does it? "Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competitive"

Horse gak.

The point of having a business is making fething money. Say I have a few grands worth of stocks in GW, I want them to make as much cash as possible. Simple.

Its not "making yourself more competitive by lowering prices" its making mother fething money.

If you don't need to make yourself more competitive, then you don't need to lower prices. If you make a pill that cures cancer, why do you need to sell it cheap if your the only bloke selling it? Should Blizzard charge 4 euros less a month for a wow sub to be "more competitive" even though they are blowing every other MMO away and ergo don't need to be more competitive?

As I said, your talking nonsense.

GW are confident they can charge more and still sell almost as many minis, they must think it will make higher profits, so that's their decision. If GW have gone bankrupt in 18 months, ill bow to your superior knowledge and concede defeat, but otherwise, you fail. And im guessing your going to fail.

If GW go bankrupt in the next 18 months, your smart and can "erm no" me as much as you like.

If they don't, I win.

As much as dont want to agree with matt im goin to have to.

Note: Its nothing to do with you as a person, just that I agree that GW can price stuff as they wish, plus the comparison to Wow was quet enlightening.

To be fair, you chose two really horrible examples to point out how practicing capitalism only sees prices increase. WoW is king. Period. It doesn't have any competition to speak of so Blizz could probably get away with raising the price a little and not begin hemorrhaging customers. Instead what they have done is begin offering paid services, like realm transfers, faction transfers, and race changes. On top of that they have been pretty successful in their micro transaction initiatives. You're able to buy mounts and pets from Blizzard's online store that become available to your characters when you log in. They've made tons of money with these new services and didn't have to raise the price of their basic product in the process.

GW is another horrible example because they seem to be confident that they don't have any competition. But if you look at Privateer Press you can clearly see a company that is using GW's economic decisions to their own advantage. They've done what they can to make sure that the prices of their starter boxes at least remain the same, even if it means using different materials for casting models. And their recent attempt at drawing in new players (battlebox+tokens+templates=free rulebook) is pretty obviously a reaction to the current levels of disillusionment and disenfranchisement on the part of GW players.

If there isn't a sense of competition, then these rules will not apply.

The response to that letter isn't surprising. Its the same length/message anyone from outside America gets over the abuse that Konami does to players in the Yugioh card game.

Corporate emails aren't long or detailed and they always sound like automated messages. Its the way they are.

Just curious and wondered if the people who are defending GW's stance on protecting the hobby also buy from Amazon? I work in Bournemouth and we used to have a great big Borders, but no longer. It closed due competition from places like Amazon and the supermarkets. Although I did buy from Amazon I did also buy from the store. There are a ton of books on my shelf that I discovered by browsing the shelves at lunchtime. Books I'd of never come across if I just used Amazon. You could say that places like Border's also offered a similar role that GW likes to preach on about. It was a place where you could go and sit down and read a book before buying. It had a large children's section as well.

Nobody came to the defence of places like Border's, nobody stopped buying from Amazon to protect these shops, so what makes GW so special? The internet Genie is well out of the bottle, for good or bad. GW needs to adapt to this.

I can see that there are some strong feelings out there and that tempers are flaring a little, even if most of it is directed at Games Workshop. I am an ex employee of Games Workshop, I left about 7 years ago for a career change. At the time I was working there the companies policy was to move away from gamers under the age of 12 and to grow more mature hobbyists from teenagers to adults as they were less into the latest craze (ie likely to buy some stuff and then drop it all and switch to yoyos or something like that) and in the adult market customers had more disposable income. With regards to the miniatures and the costs of development - at that time the cost of white metal (whatever it contains now) was rising and they wanted to move more towards plastics. At that time the price I heard quoted for the production for one laser cut mold was £1,000,000, so one sprue would cost that much but of course once it was made you could squirt out loads of that model. Think about how many plastic kits GW makes. That is considerable investment and the lead in times to design the models, packaging and re write a rule book etc all to co-inside with a launch was at least a year, never mind if it was a new rule set like AoBR. People have complained that some armies aren't being addressed enough but they do have rolling development for each of their armies and new models are released pretty much every week. (I would draw your attention to the fine cast resin models being released this weekend at local gaming stores in the uk. Link here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a )

I'm not saying I love GW at all, I enjoyed my time there but there just wasn't the career progression I was looking for and the pay was poor. I enjoy my hobby and spend a fair amount of money on it, I must admit that I like many others I will buy from the internet because even with delivery costs I can save about 20%. I still make regular visits to my local GW store because I like the staff and it is good to get feedback on projects, advice and modeling tips. I buy something now and then but not a lot in store now. I do lament the prices that the figures have risen too but if I were disciplined enough to buy one model/unit box and then go home and make it and then paint it then go back for the next, I think it would be an easily sustainable hobby.

With regards to Australia, I logged on to the Aus GW site and compared the price of a tactical squad in the UK to one in Aus and was frankly disgusted at the price disparity.
A space marine Tactical Squad in the UK is £23 in Aus for the same squad it is £40.43! Almost double! Now it has been a while since I got my degree in Economics and I haven't looked up the average income in Aus compared to here but I just can't see how that sort of price difference is acceptable. My only thought of possible explanation is the import tax but it seems that importing items over $1000 will incur 10% GST and 5% Tax so that only explains 15% more. How would they make up the rest of the price hike? Even the cost of transporting it wouldn't be that much!

The australian price is very high, and of interest to me because I've considered moving there. Now various people have defended GW by saying that the cost of everything is higher down under and that pay is higher.

Well I'm looking at an above average starting wage but the costs of things are colossal. House prices and rent are insane, and a few quick calculations have shown that with other essential bills it would take a lot of what I would earn and not leaving a heap of disposable income. Buying GW at regular prices would be a lot even once I'm on good money but Oz prices are out of the question. It's just one more thing to think about, not that GW prices have any affect on my decision where to live, it's just a reflection of costs. It must be very hard for people on low wages to put a decent roof over their head in Australia.

Necronomitron wrote:To be fair, you chose two really horrible examples to point out how practicing capitalism only sees prices increase. WoW is king. Period. It doesn't have any competition to speak of so Blizz could probably get away with raising the price a little and not begin hemorrhaging customers. Instead what they have done is begin offering paid services, like realm transfers, faction transfers, and race changes. On top of that they have been pretty successful in their micro transaction initiatives. You're able to buy mounts and pets from Blizzard's online store that become available to your characters when you log in. They've made tons of money with these new services and didn't have to raise the price of their basic product in the process.

GW is another horrible example because they seem to be confident that they don't have any competition. But if you look at Privateer Press you can clearly see a company that is using GW's economic decisions to their own advantage. They've done what they can to make sure that the prices of their starter boxes at least remain the same, even if it means using different materials for casting models. And their recent attempt at drawing in new players (battlebox+tokens+templates=free rulebook) is pretty obviously a reaction to the current levels of disillusionment and disenfranchisement on the part of GW players.

If there isn't a sense of competition, then these rules will not apply.

You dont think the wow comparisson is an apt one though?

Ive had my wow account for five years, granted I didnt play when I was away on ops, but ive always kept the account. They have took me for about what.. £450 in subs over the years?

If they added £2 a month, I would pay it. So would 99.99% of my guild. The point im simply making is that we LOVE wow, so we will carry on paying regardless of a price increase.

GW are the same, this website amuses me because of how irate people get about GW, but we fething LOVE IT. We are on dakka because we love it, we love the fluff, we love the books and the stories, we love the models and we love the whole universe they have created. Now, im not a rich GW board member, I can just deal with the cold hard facts of life. I would like it if GW charged less, but they dont, so I shrug it off, spend a bit less on booze and clothes, and crack on buying their stuff.

90% of people will do the same, if you want to stop buying, then do so, but seriously, the nerd rage people display is laughable. Its their company, they make these decisions rightly or wrongly, but really, whats the point in the impotent rage?

Thats all im saying. Im not saying Im happy about the price increase, im jus saying.. you know.. gak happens. No sense to cry about it. If I owned GW, id want to do my best to make a gakload of cash as well!

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Lot of minis for the price of a PS3 game eh? Well here in Aus, PS3 games are about $100-110 new release (Yes, Sony are screwing us too), while a Land Raider is $103. A squad of Terminators costs $5 less than a PC copy of Black Ops did on new release. A 5 man combat squad of marines costs about as much as a bottle of Jager. The price of a single Space Marine Commander kit would pay for public transport for me to get to and from work for two weeks, and still have enough change left over to buy lunch on one of those days.

You Aussies do get robbed... Id stick to ebay!

CadianCommander wrote:Personally, Frazzled I respond to corporate emails all day every day. It's my job. I teach other people how to do it. I write procedures and templates on how to write professional emails from the company to the general public.

That response would have me hauling someone's arse to the TL's office.

1. Are you the CEO responding? Frankily I am doubtul this one was either.
2. Agreed it was a bad email reply. But again I've been taught its imprudent to have any executive level employee responding to an email.


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KingDeath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

No. You're making the assumption capitalism is efficient and is designed for that. That can be an effect, but not necessarily, and only until monopolies/oligopilies form. Oh look what GW thinks it is...

Capitalism is about making money, legally (mostly).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

Erm, no? What do you mean "erm no" does that one sentence describe the complex mechanics of capitalism does it? "Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competitive"

Horse gak.

The point of having a business is making fething money. Say I have a few grands worth of stocks in GW, I want them to make as much cash as possible. Simple.

Its not "making yourself more competitive by lowering prices" its making mother fething money.

If you don't need to make yourself more competitive, then you don't need to lower prices. If you make a pill that cures cancer, why do you need to sell it cheap if your the only bloke selling it? Should Blizzard charge 4 euros less a month for a wow sub to be "more competitive" even though they are blowing every other MMO away and ergo don't need to be more competitive?

As I said, your talking nonsense.

GW are confident they can charge more and still sell almost as many minis, they must think it will make higher profits, so that's their decision. If GW have gone bankrupt in 18 months, ill bow to your superior knowledge and concede defeat, but otherwise, you fail. And im guessing your going to fail.

If GW go bankrupt in the next 18 months, your smart and can "erm no" me as much as you like.

If they don't, I win.

Oh, wait, what this ex army guy said only better than I did.
Whats scary is I actually understand what he's saying for once.

mattyrm wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont want to sound like Devils Advocate, but I go out on the piss at least twice a week and that costs me £50-60 a time. The bars are always full as well, mainly due to the university, so these "poor" students cant be that hard up.

So the way I see it, If one Friday night of the month I stay in to play minis, then ive saved 60 quid. I dont think the hobby is THAT expensive is it? You can buy a heap of models for what it costs you to buy a new game for your PS3.

Im not going to quit playing or buying, it sucks that they raise prices, but ho hum, thats capitalism.

World of Warcraft is the same, its all nerdrage, but we all love the products, and we still keep buying them, so why get your knickers in a twist?

Erm, no. Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competative. Of course, Games Workshop probably still thinks that they have some kind of monopoly over litle plastic figures, but if they do so then they are wrong.

Erm, no? What do you mean "erm no" does that one sentence describe the complex mechanics of capitalism does it? "Capitalism is actualy lowering your prices/ increasing the quality of your service to become more competitive"

Horse gak.

The point of having a business is making fething money. Say I have a few grands worth of stocks in GW, I want them to make as much cash as possible. Simple.

Its not "making yourself more competitive by lowering prices" its making mother fething money.

If you don't need to make yourself more competitive, then you don't need to lower prices. If you make a pill that cures cancer, why do you need to sell it cheap if your the only bloke selling it? Should Blizzard charge 4 euros less a month for a wow sub to be "more competitive" even though they are blowing every other MMO away and ergo don't need to be more competitive?

As I said, your talking nonsense.

GW are confident they can charge more and still sell almost as many minis, they must think it will make higher profits, so that's their decision. If GW have gone bankrupt in 18 months, ill bow to your superior knowledge and concede defeat, but otherwise, you fail. And im guessing your going to fail.

If GW go bankrupt in the next 18 months, your smart and can "erm no" me as much as you like.

If they don't, I win.

Your assumption that GW can freely increase prices to make more money ( which is indeed the central motivator of capitalism ) is wrong, since this strategy is only working for products with a very low price elasticity ( and i doubt that little plastic soldiers fall into this category ), preferably in a monopoly.
You ignore the fact that GW actualy has competition which is, at least if GW would take their competition seriously, almost always dealt by with by becoming more competative which eventualy enables your company to continue making money / to make more money by increasing your market share.
This can include lower prices or better service. This rarely includes raising prices and reducing the amount of service to your customer to become even less attractive.

Blizzard on the other hand has very few serious competitors and not a single one which can provide something that reaches the quality of their product ( at least when it comes to casual fantasy mmorpgs ). Of course, Blizzard also realises that they cannot work under the assumption that the price for WoW can be raises ad infinitum without risking severe results in regard to their amount of customers.
So no, GW doesn't have to get bancrupt within 18 months to prove my point, but i can almost guarantee you that they will continue to lose their market share and that the amount of sold GW miniatures will continue to decrease.