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Made in us
Wrack Sufferer





The other side of the internet

malfred wrote:What I'm looking for from the Colossals is the same thing that I see in the
Battle Engines, and that is balance for its point cost. You really don't
just plop a 9-10 point battle engine and expect it to hum. There has
to be a plan and there has to be a list fitted to it. I call that balanced.

The problem with group think on some of this is that if it's not good
at opening a hole and assassinating a caster all on its own, then it's
often not deemed as useful. But the battle engines all do mean things,
and I'm hoping that the colossals do as well.



Don't get me wrong, there are some decent battle engines. I'm very jealous of Skorne and Legion's BEs on the Hordes side and the Stormstrider and Gun Carriage on Machine side. Perhaps it's my Menoth side showing through here. There are some solid battle engines, but they still have to draw comparisons to similarly cost units and jacks and jacks get the benefit of a mitigated cost from the warcaster. And sadly the result of the comparisons becomes a rather dull tone. Most battle engines can't compare the the ability to have focus, be faster and more maneuverable, or being able to use terrain.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
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Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





biccat wrote:
Laughing Man wrote:You do realise units have been in the game since the original Prime, right?

As CT Gamer points out, Prime was actually released well after the game was available. I played with the quickstart rules for quite a while. It was cool when Cryx and Khador were released.

The first infantry unit available was the Cygnar mechaniks, the first real combat-capable infantry unit was the Men-o-War. It was kind of a big deal when they came out; people didn't know how well infantry would fare with the warjacks. Infantry really dominated MK1 because they were simply better. Occasionally you would see a heavy warjack (I swore by my Slayer), but for the most part it was cheaper and more effective to run infantry. Light warjacks were mostly for toting arc nodes (which is what made Cryx so effective).

However, unlike CT Gamer, I like the direction Warmachine has gone since MK2. There is a better balance (which, I think, is more driven by Hordes than by changes in the WarMachine mechanic) between warjacks and infantry, leading more to a skirmish style game, rather than the battlegroup-style game that you saw in early MK1. Back then the game was so much more one-dimensional than it is today. Infantry added a needed layer of complexity and strategy.


I like the fixes MKII made from a rules/gamplay perspective for the most part. And I don't object to infantry per se.

I think at smaller games you migt have a unit or a few soloes with you, and that felt right. Giant armies of infantry hordes just doesnt do it for me when it comes to what made WM initially apealing.

I also wish PP had pushed for a more story driven/ scenario based style of play rathe rthen the caster kill/ tourney style default, but that is a whole other debate that doesnt belong here, and I was always in the minority on it anyways...

This is all sort of semi- off topic though.

Getting back to the collossals, I think they diminish the status of warjacks as the big full metal beatsticks, and that is a sad thing in my book...




 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

Personally I view colassals as the next evolution of warjacks and an effort to bring big Stompy robots back to being the biggest stompiest things around.

I started the game in mkII and as it was basically all new players with only a few vets leading the sudden surge Warmachine enjoyed at our FLGS we started out with 35pt games, but for the last year 50pt games have been the standard. Nearly every event everywhere is 50pt and anything less is t very common. Nor is anything larger, though 70/75pt two caster games get run every so often, and half or more of those are two players per side. I am not aware of even a single unbound game being played locally, ever.

In short, I think colassals are cool a d have no problems with the current scale of the game.

 
   
Made in us
Wrack Sufferer





The other side of the internet

Aduro wrote:Personally I view colassals as the next evolution of warjacks and an effort to bring big Stompy robots back to being the biggest stompiest things around.

I started the game in mkII and as it was basically all new players with only a few vets leading the sudden surge Warmachine enjoyed at our FLGS we started out with 35pt games, but for the last year 50pt games have been the standard. Nearly every event everywhere is 50pt and anything less is t very common. Nor is anything larger, though 70/75pt two caster games get run every so often, and half or more of those are two players per side. I am not aware of even a single unbound game being played locally, ever.

In short, I think colassals are cool a d have no problems with the current scale of the game.


It's funny cuz in the fluff they were the originals. They got the smaller ones because the big ones kept sinking into the swamp.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
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Tormentor






St. Louis

Then they built another one. It sank into the swamp. They built a third. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. BUT THE FOURTH COLOSSAL STOOD.
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

My only problem with the colassals is the apparent break from old fluff someone else mentioned. Mulg being the biggest troll ever, a walking mountain, except now there are other trolls more than twice his size, a d more than one to boot. Behemoth being this huge investment in resources such that they can't afford to build more, but they can build others that are even larger and make them production line. Ect.

 
   
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The cost does seem prohibitive, but I've got most of my forces collected and assembled already, so saving up for a little while should be no problem. I'm curious to see what we get for Hordes, since I mainly play as Legion.

Deathwing - 2500 
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

They've given the names of the Hordes versions;
Mountain Kings
Archangel
Woldwraith
War Mammoth

Note that IK Mammoths are giant lizards/dinos, not elephants.

 
   
Made in ca
Major




Canada

These new 120mm based unit types have caused me to re-evaluate what I'm doing with Warmachine. As I've expressed above, I like warjacks being the big stompy robots and don't really want them eclipsed by battle engines and colossals (even if they're damn cool).

As it stands, I encounter a battle engine in about one in four games. If colossals see a similar amount of play, I'm alright with that. Even if up to a solid third of my games have them, I'm alright with that. I just don't want half or a majority of my games to be where the jacks are no longer the big things. If that ends up happening, I'll start unwinding my collection.

So I decided I'd finish my casters' tier 4 lists (needing 4 more solo blisters between them). and stop purchasing for the time being.

As a result of reallocation of hobby money away from PP, I decided to finally get into 15mm sci-fi and ordered some stuff from Ground Zero Games and Critical Mass Games. Khurasan has some neat stuff as well.
   
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Arch Magos of Vanaheim






Bristol University

Like the sound of that Woldwraith


 
   
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The other side of the internet

Laughing Man wrote:Then they built another one. It sank into the swamp. They built a third. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. BUT THE FOURTH COLOSSAL STOOD.


Glad to see someone got it.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

Surtur wrote:
Laughing Man wrote:Then they built another one. It sank into the swamp. They built a third. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. BUT THE FOURTH COLOSSAL STOOD.


Glad to see someone got it.


I thought it was the fifth colossal that was humanity's last, best hope against the Orgoth's darkness?

 
   
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The other side of the internet

Aduro wrote:
Surtur wrote:
Laughing Man wrote:Then they built another one. It sank into the swamp. They built a third. It burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. BUT THE FOURTH COLOSSAL STOOD.


Glad to see someone got it.


I thought it was the fifth colossal that was humanity's last, best hope against the Orgoth's darkness?


It was only a model.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

RAGE

Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies 
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Lakewood, Ohio

Aduro wrote:My only problem with the colassals is the apparent break from old fluff someone else mentioned. Mulg being the biggest troll ever, a walking mountain, except now there are other trolls more than twice his size, a d more than one to boot. Behemoth being this huge investment in resources such that they can't afford to build more, but they can build others that are even larger and make them production line. Ect.



This post made me wonder, because when I saw the Troll concept art, I jokingly told everyone at my store I was going to use the Troll colossal as Mulg. So I went to my Trollbloods book to look at what they say about Mulg because of these accusations of Mulg being the largest troll ever. They say Mulg is a "walking piece of the mountain." still quite large, but not that original idea I all had of Mulg. And apparently from what I've read on the PP forums, Simon says that the Mountain Kings are being awakened in the Hordes book, so they're not going back and changing the fluff. It's like Pluto (the planet). We have knowledge of this tiny planet on the fringe of our solar system. To our knowledge as humans, it is supposed to be considered a planet. Well fifty years pass and we all find out that there are other bodies beyond Pluto that are slightly larger, slightly smaller, and have a more stable orbit than Pluto, so we downgrade. In Caen, our Trollkin friends believe that Mulg is the biggest and the baddest troll out where, and while fighting the wars, and searching for a stable place to lay down new roots, they stumble across these ancient trolls that probably aren't in the same genetic line as Dire Trolls, thus why we're only just now finding them.

And as for the idea of Behemoth, wasn't he too expensive for what he could do? The Colossals are supposed to be mobile siege engines, something Behemoth is not. So they might be willing to spend a little more money on the development of a different type of weapon, but I do see your point on the idea of changing fluff. As it has been stated, yes the old colossals were huge, and there were not very many of them. We're now faced with a more developed version, an advancing of the storyline. It's not like people in WW1 were saying "hey this first type of tank is the only tank we'll ever need." It may not have been effective in cost or other measures, but once the armies were used to that technology, it gave them the drive to make it better. I don't know, it doesn't seem like they're really changing the fluff. I'm okay with my Troll colossal being bigger than Mulg, as long as the story line backs it up.


As to the Stormwall, I'm excited to see it's powers. And anyone that is waiting to see other factions, the Trollbloods' Mountain King is going to be at Adepticon as per this link:
http://dev.adepticon.org/2012/03/colossals-diorama-by-privateer-press-at.html#more

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/13 14:08:31


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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
rigeld2 wrote:
Then I'm dumb and you should ignore me :p
 
   
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Portland

frozenwastes wrote:These new 120mm based unit types have caused me to re-evaluate what I'm doing with Warmachine. As I've expressed above, I like warjacks being the big stompy robots and don't really want them eclipsed by battle engines and colossals (even if they're damn cool).

As it stands, I encounter a battle engine in about one in four games. If colossals see a similar amount of play, I'm alright with that. Even if up to a solid third of my games have them, I'm alright with that. I just don't want half or a majority of my games to be where the jacks are no longer the big things. If that ends up happening, I'll start unwinding my collection.

So I decided I'd finish my casters' tier 4 lists (needing 4 more solo blisters between them). and stop purchasing for the time being.

As a result of reallocation of hobby money away from PP, I decided to finally get into 15mm sci-fi and ordered some stuff from Ground Zero Games and Critical Mass Games. Khurasan has some neat stuff as well.


Yeah... I had a similar doubt around the 10th anniversary NQ issue (call me whatever you want, but the intense back patting* and lame-a** writing in the Magnus story pushed me over the edge, in terms of not liking PP's design/creative choices, and I don't think I've bought a single PP product since). *I also found it humorous that, in their section about their awesome publications, editing, and quality control, there was an obvious copy-paste error

My re-evaluation of the game meant trading for Malifaux for me, which has been a blast.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/13 19:09:47




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Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

Alfndrate wrote:This post made me wonder, because when I saw the Troll concept art, I jokingly told everyone at my store I was going to use the Troll colossal as Mulg. So I went to my Trollbloods book to look at what they say about Mulg because of these accusations of Mulg being the largest troll ever. They say Mulg is a "walking piece of the mountain." still quite large, but not that original idea I all had of Mulg. And apparently from what I've read on the PP forums, Simon says that the Mountain Kings are being awakened in the Hordes book, so they're not going back and changing the fluff. It's like Pluto (the planet). We have knowledge of this tiny planet on the fringe of our solar system. To our knowledge as humans, it is supposed to be considered a planet. Well fifty years pass and we all find out that there are other bodies beyond Pluto that are slightly larger, slightly smaller, and have a more stable orbit than Pluto, so we downgrade. In Caen, our Trollkin friends believe that Mulg is the biggest and the baddest troll out where, and while fighting the wars, and searching for a stable place to lay down new roots, they stumble across these ancient trolls that probably aren't in the same genetic line as Dire Trolls, thus why we're only just now finding them.

Alf, do you have a link to where you found this info on the PP forums?

   
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isnt it Wold Wrath?


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
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Infiltrating Hawwa'





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Aduro wrote:Mulg being the biggest troll ever, a walking mountain, except now there are other trolls more than twice his size, a d more than one to boot.


They already dropped that ball when they sculpted him as the smallest available Heavy Troll. Adorable little mountain.

   
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RiTides wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:This post made me wonder, because when I saw the Troll concept art, I jokingly told everyone at my store I was going to use the Troll colossal as Mulg. So I went to my Trollbloods book to look at what they say about Mulg because of these accusations of Mulg being the largest troll ever. They say Mulg is a "walking piece of the mountain." still quite large, but not that original idea I all had of Mulg. And apparently from what I've read on the PP forums, Simon says that the Mountain Kings are being awakened in the Hordes book, so they're not going back and changing the fluff. It's like Pluto (the planet). We have knowledge of this tiny planet on the fringe of our solar system. To our knowledge as humans, it is supposed to be considered a planet. Well fifty years pass and we all find out that there are other bodies beyond Pluto that are slightly larger, slightly smaller, and have a more stable orbit than Pluto, so we downgrade. In Caen, our Trollkin friends believe that Mulg is the biggest and the baddest troll out where, and while fighting the wars, and searching for a stable place to lay down new roots, they stumble across these ancient trolls that probably aren't in the same genetic line as Dire Trolls, thus why we're only just now finding them.

Alf, do you have a link to where you found this info on the PP forums?


Can't comment on the info on the PP forums, RiTides, but I can on Mulg being the largest Troll ever. Current fluff (FoH: Trollbloods) has this to say regarding his reputation:

Dire trolls draw upon their regenerative capabilities to achieve extraordinary longevity. Many live for centuries, and they become increasingly dangerous and tenacious with age. Reputedly the most ancient and ferocious dire troll ever to walk Caen, Mulg is the paragon of that reputation; indeed, he is old enough to have seen the Orgoth with his own eyes.


There isn't any size reference given in his unit entry which backs up the "largest Troll ever" reputation. I even went back to check Metamorphosis, to see if the entry there mentioned it - but it has the exact same text.

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Portland

Bakerofish wrote:isnt it Wold Wrath?


Yup, presumably it'll look pretty close to that. People were hoping it would be the battle engine, before colossals were announced



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Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

plastictrees wrote:
Aduro wrote:Mulg being the biggest troll ever, a walking mountain, except now there are other trolls more than twice his size, a d more than one to boot.


They already dropped that ball when they sculpted him as the smallest available Heavy Troll. Adorable little mountain.

Yeah, I know! That's why it doesn't bother me if there's a bigger model... he's pretty puny (look at his legs compared to any other Dire Troll's- it's like he's in a different scale, and should probably be "Colossal/Gargantuan-sized" himself if he were scaled correctly).

Dysartes- Thanks! I did check the Troll PP forum, and there was some of Alfndrate's info, but I didn't find the main source.

And is the name "King of the Mountain" or "Mountain Kings"?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/13 21:11:49


   
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I'll confirm when I get the new NQ (which is I believe where the names are mentioned), but I think it is Mountain King.

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Looking to improve your painting? Try a dose of WAMP in your daily intake - the Wargames and Miniatures Paradise.....

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Lakewood, Ohio

Aduro mentioned earlier in this thread that the names were Mountain King, Woldwraith (something like that), Mammoth, and Legion's name which escapes me....

So I checked around on the internet, a week or so ago PP's twitter sent out this link:

http://dev.adepticon.org/2012/03/colossals-diorama-by-privateer-press-at.html#more

If you click the link and look at the board they're building for Adepticon (so RiTides, you better get me some pretty pictures). On the link provided are several work in progress shots of the small scale. Which I will provide here:


This mockup clearly states what models will be on the board. Granted this is on the small scale, but we're treated to the names of "Gun Carriage", "War Wagon", and "Conquest" all names we know to be true of current/previewed models (the Colossals video said the name of the Khador Conquest I believe/the info on that name was leaked at TempleCon).





So we're left with Mountain King (and the amusing image of a stick figure smashing something with his butt over the circle that was previously labeled "Mountain King"

Also, since PP's forum contains members more diligent about this than I am, there is this thread:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?99770-Trollblood-Colossal-Spoiler

In this thread, the forum goers are treated to the following quotes:
PPS_Will (Will Hungerford I believe, I don't regularly lurk on those forums) wrote:
Originally Posted by DarkLegacy wrote:
I'm fairly certain it is right because that's Privateer writing that blog post, not Adepticon! I still can't wait to see it.

As the author of said piece, I will go out on a limb and say it is correct!

This means that the Troll model will be completed (or is completed) for Adepticon, so even if we don't know what it looks like beforehand, we will during Adepticon.
Simon jumps in with a bit about the story a few posts down
PPS_Simon wrote:
Originally Posted by MinionOfCthulhu wrote:
A troll that big is kinda weird though. I thought all the fluff around Mulg was that he was the biggest troll of them all. Whoops nevermind we found some five times as tall as him.

They didn't just find them, the events surrounding the awakening of the Mountain Kings will be explained in the next HORDES book.



So PP staff have confirmed that the Troll's Colossal will be awakened by the events of their book.

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, my night class got in the way.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/03/14 02:42:34


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Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

Hey, if you're gonna post solid info and quotes like that, you can take as long as you want. The PP forums are a pita the try a d follow and get good facts from.

 
   
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Bristol University

I think the stick figure mountain king is running.


 
   
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Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

Alf- You rock, thanks for that info!!

   
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I don't play any of PP's games, but I am going to Adepticon and I am looking forward to seeing that board!

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Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

Battle scene of the Stormwall and Conquest with other guys underfoot.
Spoiler:


 
   
Made in gb
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I feel rather sorry for the Trenchers and Winter Guard caught between those two - and, thanks to those crates, unless they have reach they won't be entering HTH any time soon...

Irregular Magazine - a free e-zine produced quarterly by the Sheffield Irregulars. By gamers, for gamers.

Looking to improve your painting? Try a dose of WAMP in your daily intake - the Wargames and Miniatures Paradise.....

My blog: The Renaissance Gamer - Last updated: 14/04/2013 - May the fourth be with you: X-Wing Regionals 2013

2013 Painting - WIPs 
   
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Mayhem Comics in Des Moines, Iowa

All colossals have Reach, a d Thresher for that matter.

 
   
 
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