Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I left GW in 2011 during one of the price hikes. I also had not enjoyed the games of 8th edition WHFB I had played, and it seems like a lot of local WHFB players agreed as their numbers dropped sharply.

I was also dissatisfied with their lack of support for specialist games and their near-hostility directed toward the internet, their fans, and even independent retailers. I've been tempted to return from time to time but haven't yet, and as time goes on it gets easier to resist temptation.

I had almost always dabbled in non-GW games but never got into them like I got into 40K. In 2011 I bit the bullet and dove into Warmahordes full bore, and while i haven't been able to play as much as I want to over the past couple of years, it's my primary game and I'm quite satisfied with it.

Frankly, right now, there's too many games I'm interested in and even if I had the money to buy every miniature I could possibly want, I wouldn't have the time to paint them and play all the games. As it currently stands, though, I plan on picking up some Infinity, Warzone: Resurrection, Wargods of Aegyptus and perhaps some Malifaux, too.

The main factor for me playing these other games is the lower cost for a full force for a standard-sized game (number of models nonwithstanding, though Warzone resembles earlier editions of 40K in scale and Wargods is like a smaller WHFB, which is a bonus for me; I have no desire to paint 100+ of the same model), and for me, the gameplay found in those games is more enjoyable. I also find Warmahordes to be more well-balanced than either 40K or WHFB.

 RatBot wrote:
The main factor for me playing these other games is the lower cost for a full force for a standard-sized game (number of models nonwithstanding, though Warzone resembles earlier editions of 40K in scale and Wargods is like a smaller WHFB, which is a bonus for me; I have no desire to paint 100+ of the same model)

This is my prime factor now when I look at games. Skirmish games are my cup of tea these days. Small initial investment for a playable force, cheap to expand your force, and the ability to spend more time on each model when painting. Painting my Tyranids has tought me that I simply don't want to paint that many models to field an entirely painted force. My Vampire Counts are destined to remain in a box for eternity, I feel.

Right now I'm looking to branch out of Infinity, into Malifaux. A starter, and the rulebook, for 80% of what I'd have paid for a new large Tyranid. Bonus points for doing new kits in plastic. That's my kind of value.

Time and again price is mentioned as a key problem with Games Workshop.

Perhaps they finally have exceeded the limit of inelasticity of their consumers.

Gave up on GW when 7th ed dropped. Had gotten increasingly disillusioned with 6th because of the loose and sloppy ruleset which led to greater imbalances, much more clamoring about comp, increasingly boring lists and ridicolously time-consuming games.

When 7th dropped and I saw that practically nothing bad was changed and that they went even further into "Make up your own rules and make PEW PEW noises" I knew I wouldn`t pick up 40k for a long time.

To play without planning COMP for hours with your opponent, you now also have to buy so much stuff all the time. For me, it is not the price of individual items that is the problem, it is the constant power creep which means the unit you just finished painting can be made unusable for 5 years which gets me.

The increasing childishness of their miniatures and the removal off everything non-GW from their communication also help pushing me away.

I dont want to continously spend money, time and shelf-space trying to keep up anymore.

It is sad to see how much wrong they continue to do. Even my former hardcore pro-GW fanboy friends have stopped playing and collecting GW.

I already had Warmachine and FoW, so I just dont split my focus into 40k anymore. Currently warmachine has my fancy. In addition, I play more boardgames as non-tabletop friends can easily join in the fun.


TLDR

Reasons for quitting GW:
1: Horrible unbalanced ruleset
1b: leading to boring lists
1c: and tedious games
1d: and COMP
1e: and lots of unusable and overpowered units
1f: and insane amounts of money, time and space needed to be able to keep up

2: Horrible PR
2b: removal of all non-GW
2c: denial of internet/customer feedback
2d: lawsuits

3: Less appealing miniatures

 -Loki- wrote:

 RatBot wrote:
The main factor for me playing these other games is the lower cost for a full force for a standard-sized game (number of models nonwithstanding, though Warzone resembles earlier editions of 40K in scale and Wargods is like a smaller WHFB, which is a bonus for me; I have no desire to paint 100+ of the same model)

This is my prime factor now when I look at games. Skirmish games are my cup of tea these days. Small initial investment for a playable force, cheap to expand your force, and the ability to spend more time on each model when painting. Painting my Tyranids has tought me that I simply don't want to paint that many models to field an entirely painted force. My Vampire Counts are destined to remain in a box for eternity, I feel.

Right now I'm looking to branch out of Infinity, into Malifaux. A starter, and the rulebook, for 80% of what I'd have paid for a new large Tyranid. Bonus points for doing new kits in plastic. That's my kind of value.

If you like skirmish games, you might like this:

http://www.drwhominiatures.co.uk/

Free rules, Skirmish, and some pretty interesting ideas. Not as much of an emphasis on combat, but still an interesting game.

Like many others on here I haven't left GW, just stopped buying their over priced plastic, so what I did with all the money I wasn't wasting on them I went into:

Dystopian wars- steampunk syfi game with fun rules that are not complicated for the average IQ person (like me).

Flames of war- a historical "fantasy" game with well written/tested rules and decent minis.

And soon to get into Battletech.

I still play 40k and fantasy when I get the chance, it's just that I no longer feel the need to be connected to them.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Time and again price is mentioned as a key problem with Games Workshop.

Perhaps they finally have exceeded the limit of inelasticity of their consumers.

I used to be able to help direct folks to armies I thought they'd like if they approached a game I was watching or playing in and were interested in starting.

Last Friday I had that happen again for the first time in years, a young guy (like 13 or so), came up to a 40k game I was watching and started asking about getting started in the game. I couldn't, in good conscience, point him towards Games Workshop games. To start it would be at minimum $125 (if he got one of the two people starters with the rulebook), and he would end up with two unbalanced armies that he would have significant problems getting games with outside of the starter.

If he decides he likes one of the armies, he'd have to spend at minimum $50.00 (MSRP) for the main rulebook for the faction, and then probably drop another $300.00+ more on models to get to a decent sized list.

Telling a kid that he'd have to spend around $500.00 just to start in the game was a bit hard to swallow. Meanwhile if he went with say, WM/H the buy-in is $50-$100 (battlebox or 2p starter), and no codex, and then he can step up in army size at around $20-$80 per army size bracket (unless he goes whole hog and gets a colossal)...

I'm still in GW and I love and hate different parts of the game, just like I always have and always will.

I'm actually leaving PP games, mostly, because the things I hate about it are far outweighing the things I like, but that's not the point of the thread.

Games I am trying to get to popularity in the Dallas area as OTHERS leave GW, though, are:

Dropzone Commander
Dystopian Wars
Firestorm Armada - because everyone needs more spaceship games!

I haven't left GW, I still play but with the stuff I already have. I just haven't bought anything since the Space Marine release, bar the odd model for painting. I can't justify the expense.

I recommend Deadzone. Easy to learn, quick games, much cheaper and I like the models (Restic is horrible, however). One thing I particularly like about DZ is the clarity of the rules. The main rulebook is a bit confusingly laid out (solely in terms of design) but I haven't really had any situations where there could be an argument over RAW vs RAI or whatever. When I don't know what happens at a particular time I just look it up and it's there in black and white.

I haven't left GW, but I'm definitely 'on a break' with it after the 7th edition dropped. I have deliberately not purchased the new rulebook, and have made the decision that if I do purchase any more 40k models, I will buy them secondhand, because they lose value faster than a new car.

The reasons for my falling-out with GW:

-They are turning over books far faster than they need to, and they are designed to give advantages to new units purely for marketing, at the expense of balance. A new core rulebook in two years? Not gonna happen.
-Warhammer Visions is atrocious. Who thought that was a good idea?
-Minis are getting much more expensive, though this isn't huge for me because I have more unfinished projects than I could finish in quite a few years.
-Balance is completely out of whack. Unless you play strictly with a group of non-competitive gamers who don't break lists, it's no fun at all.

The reasons I'm still holding out hope for the future:

-I'm invested. 12 years of collecting and playing has left me with enough models and associated stuff to comfortably fill a 20ft cargo container as my hobby corner. Time, effort, and money.
-I still love the universe, despite the fact that the fluff is being recycled. I know the 'minute to midnight' is GW's tag-line for the state of the universe, but there are still ways they could advance the plot of things or expound on certain wars, and thus add new content.
-I really like the miniatures, honestly. The sculpts aren't the best perhaps, but I do like the overall look of most of the 40k armies.
-I think GW is close enough to going under that they're going to have to make some hard decisions to fix their system and repair relations with their customer base, or be simply bought out. So, while I won't buy anything new for a while, I'm not going to unload everything just yet.

I'm like a number of posters on here- I haven't completely forsaken GW and its flagship 40k, but I am in a bit of a odd spot since I'm refusing to get the 7th edition (and hence, all the books that go with it).

I've been learning Dystopian Wars and have enjoyed that quite a bit actually! I was surprised, it was the first game I really got into beyond 40k and the models are pretty damn good for not a ton of money!

I'm also really fascinated with All Quiet on the Martian Front, I'm going to pick that up when I have a chance or maybe visit GenCon since I live so close to it, and see how the game works.

I don't really want to play more than 3 games, and I prefer them to all be noticeably different scales, plus I am "limited" by what I can fit in my glass case. I'm still quite attached to my Dark Eldar and Ork armies, so I've been exploring the idea of "old-GW" and trying to get people into one of the older editions, like 3rd or 4th, where the books are very cheap and the armies aren't as big (since point-inflation hadn't gotten so far yet).

My final tallies are in and post-40k I have netted myself a nearly complete Ariadna Merovingian Sectorial (I'm missing one or two models, it's nearly 1000pts!, includes Anaconda), a complete p/e Baldur Tier List circle army save the Woldwrath and one Sentry Stone unit, 2 Malifaux Crew boxes plus 3 add-on boxes, and some sprinkles of love to my Cryx like Deathjack and some bile thralls.

And I still had a fist full of cash left over spent on other personal items/stashed away.

I cannot see going back to GW as-is because of the mind blowing amount of money I've sunk into one game. I'd be down for a skirmish game set in the GrimDark 41st Millenium (one were fielding A terminator is like OH EM GEE!), but never again army unless it's smaller scale.

Best of luck to everyone else and their endeavors. Maybe we'll cross paths!

 TheKbob wrote:
I cannot see going back to GW as-is because of the mind blowing amount of money I've sunk into one game. I'd be down for a skirmish game set in the GrimDark 41st Millenium (one were fielding A terminator is like OH EM GEE!), but never again army unless it's smaller scale.

I've been talking with a friend recently about doing something like this with DoW 2 size squads (3 tac marines and a sgt, 2 assault and a sgt, ect). I think it could work with a modified version of the infinity rules treating each 'squad' as a fireteam.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I cannot see going back to GW as-is because of the mind blowing amount of money I've sunk into one game. I'd be down for a skirmish game set in the GrimDark 41st Millenium (one were fielding A terminator is like OH EM GEE!), but never again army unless it's smaller scale.

I've been talking with a friend recently about doing something like this with DoW 2 size squads (3 tac marines and a sgt, 2 assault and a sgt, ect). I think it could work with a modified version of the infinity rules treating each 'squad' as a fireteam.

Give Deadzone a look. It's not the Grimdark 41st MIllennium but you can easily represent the different factions with GW models - Space Marines for Enforcers, Eldar for Asterians, Tyranids for Plague, Orks for...Orcs). The various faction decks can be downloaded for free as PDFs (not sure if they're exactly the same as the final retail versions, but better than nothing). It was what I immediately thought of when I saw the idea of a Terminator appearing in a game being a big deal - for example, Peacekeepers (the game's equivalent of Terminators) cost something like 20 points with the standard list being 70 points.

Alternatively, have you heard of In The Emperor's Name?

http://iten-game.org/

I've partially left GW. Haven't played a game since the 2013 Bay Area Open (First week of March) haven't bought a model since then either. I've still got plenty to paint and once in a while I do.

For me it's not price, but value for the money. Also they haven't Wow'd me with anything in quite some time. I'm pretty easy going with the rules so as bad as they are (are they? I don't know) rules weren't a factor. I'm an Eldar player first, then Dark Angels. So fifteen year old guardian plastics, no plastic aspect warriors, price creep on existing old models. All that stuff wained my enthusiasm for "the hobby". BAO was the last set of games I played, and I had a great time doing them.

So for the past year I engaged in other aspects of modeling. I had this idea to grab any type of 72nd scale model fighter (military or fantasy or etc) and have them sitting side by side for scale. They're all the same size so you can see what a TIE advance looks like sitting next to the Redtail (from Cowboy Bebop) sitting next to an F-14 Tomcat sitting next to a Macross Valkyrie. Pretty fun actually, and more than anything it was a change of pace. At the tail end of 2013 I wanted to do a robot so of course I bought like 10, 1/100 scale bots from either Gundam (not really into the show, just whatever looked cool) or Muv Luv (because there are other robots besides Gundam).

Late this May I picked up a box called "Guild's Judgement" for the Mailifaux game. Box art depicted these awesome looking Ghost Ridery guys called Death Marshall's. They looked badass, seriously, I wanted to paint them, and after looking at the box for four weeks I decided to pull the trigger and buy it. As a modeler I was appeased, because these plastics are super detailed. They're not the GW heroic scale either, so no huge faces and hands.

It's a skirmish game so every "crew" of 7-9 guys I can paint and base with a different theme. It's got magik, steampunk, horror, wildwest, martial arts so within the same game system I can build, paint, and use a wide palette of characters. This appeals to me. With this game I get to use a huge variety of colors, and I like this a painter. Not just going to the FLGS and buying three bottles of Caliban Green for the weekend. Also being a skirmish system for the same price as a small GW army you can get 2 or 3 crews of Malifaux, multiple playstyles FTW really (and you have enough product to teach your friends how to play).

After buying my first box I started going online and checking out the Wyrd website and the Malifaux wiki to get a feel for what the game was about. I like the mechanics of the game. I found out that last year they switched to a new edition and did a couple of months (6-8 weeks) of open beta so Wyrd the could get input from its player base. This also appeals to me as a player. I played my first game a couple of weeks ago and I'm playing my second game tonight. At this point I'm hooked.

Also the Double Savior for Relic Knights just came in!

So now I build and paint whatever...GW, model planes and robots, Malifaux. Like a true war gamer I've got about a dozen half finished projects on my table. I'll still play 40K if anyone wants to, but until then my nights are full.

 DarkElf27 wrote:
The reasons for my falling-out with GW:

-They are turning over books far faster than they need to, and they are designed to give advantages to new units purely for marketing, at the expense of balance.

This statement is SOOOO wrong and false. While yes they are turning over books faster, that is not a problem. I can't understand why people are saying a faster pace is bad. It's great. More to buy and you don't have to wait if you want a redo.

Now you say it's designed to give advantages and that is a false statement. What is the advantage for Orks? Tyranids? Are you sure it's done for marketing? GW admits they don't market. So how are the sales for the Pyrovore? Only a few units are considered Over Powered or unbalanced. Reading your statement you seem to be saying it's for EVERY release, and that is simply false. To say this is just lying.

I can't believe people are quitting because of a faster release schedule. I can see how some Codices are released and they have overpowered and unbalanced units, it can't be said for all. I can see why people will leave because there is no balance in 40K and you never know if the next release is going to be overpowered or just meh and boring release.

And yet DarkElf27 is now not giving GW money because of that reason you disagree with.

I think the truth of the matter is that it's about selective memory. If you believe that new = more powerful you will remember the more powerful releases and tend not to remember the meh ones. But because balance is just not there at all, each release has a higher chance of being either too powerful or too weak. And if you already are predisposed to remembering the too powerful ones, it's only natural to come to DarkElf27's conclusions.

And the end result is that he's fallen out with GW. Wrong or not.

Davor wrote:


This statement is SOOOO wrong and false. While yes they are turning over books faster, that is not a problem. I can't understand why people are saying a faster pace is bad. It's great. More to buy and you don't have to wait if you want a redo.

Yes, because I enjoy paying over $100 just to use models I've had for years, every year or so.... It is a problem, because they are trying to use a bucket to remove the water from the boat, when they need an 8000/minute pump to get this much water out.... They're putting stuff out before it is ultimately ready, and we can see this in multiple releases, and in the form of FAQs (that actually don't answer the majority of questions I've ever seen)


I'm sorry, but your statement of "faster is better for 40k, no matter what" just screams to me that you are a kid, or are still living at home and have no bills/responsibilities. Myself, I DO have bills/responsibilities, and it would be completely irresponsible for me to put down the kind of money GW is "demanding" that I do, just to play a game that I once upon a time enjoyed. I've long since gone on to "greener pastures" where the company that produces the things that i like actually accepts, and values input from it's customers.

It's a great time to look at infinity. Just saying.

MightyGodzilla wrote:They're not the GW heroic scale either, so no huge faces and hands.

That's right. Just huge legs about 2-3 times longer than a real person.

Davor wrote:I can't understand why people are saying a faster pace is bad. It's great. More to buy

Truly, the GW hobby is buying GW products.

Eggs wrote:It's a great time to look at infinity. Just saying.

I have been!

 Vermis wrote:

Davor wrote:I can't understand why people are saying a faster pace is bad. It's great. More to buy

Truly, the GW hobby is buying GW products.

The faster pace is only bad if you stop to look at your purchases. If you stop to take the shrink wrap off your stuff than your doing the HOBBY(TM) wrong.

I quit when GW took me to court, accusing me of creating a model for Chapterhouse, which I never had anything to do with.

The whole situation could have been resolved by a ten minute phone call, but instead they dragged their buttocks through court for a year and half. If you think that wargaming is expensive try retaining a lawyer for a year and a half. That could have paid my entire gaming budget for the rest of my life.

I am guilty of breaking out my Mordheim stuff from time to time as I still enjoy the game and won't ever need to spend a dime on it again as they killed it, companies like Mantic or Reaper can cover models should I find myself in need.

Since I quit GW I've dabbled with Infinity, Xwing, Zombicide and now Deadzone. I also play battletech from time to time but because I felt that the things I wanted from a gaming system weren't being provided I said feth it and started making my own game line. Not the typical "I typed up these house rules to play with friends" but a stand alone game with dedicated models and funded it on kickstarter. It scratches the itch I had for quite a while, it lets me work with rules I actually enjoy using and by doing all the sculpting and casting work it satisfies my hobby appetite quite well.

For me gaming has always been about doing what you enjoy and mixing interests, not buy from one company and one company alone. GW has become a fricking bloodthirsty vampire that has no soul and is intent on leeching life from the rest of the gaming world. Which is a shame as they used to be a company I enjoyed prior to going public as it's all been headed downhill ever since.


When you look beyond the GW kiddie pool the gaming world is pretty huge and there's tons of interesting stuff out there.

"Kiddie pool" I like that and will probably use it.

For me gaming has always been about doing what you enjoy and mixing interests, not buy from one company and one company alone. GW has become a fricking bloodthirsty vampire that has no soul and is intent on leeching life from the rest of the gaming world. Which is a shame as they used to be a company I enjoyed prior to going public as it's all been headed downhill ever since.


When you look beyond the GW kiddie pool the gaming world is pretty huge and there's tons of interesting stuff out there.

Well said that man!

 MWHistorian wrote:
"Kiddie pool" I like that and will probably use it.

Probably not technically inaccurate either, with what I've been saying lately.

 Vermis wrote:

For me gaming has always been about doing what you enjoy and mixing interests, not buy from one company and one company alone. GW has become a fricking bloodthirsty vampire that has no soul and is intent on leeching life from the rest of the gaming world. Which is a shame as they used to be a company I enjoyed prior to going public as it's all been headed downhill ever since.


When you look beyond the GW kiddie pool the gaming world is pretty huge and there's tons of interesting stuff out there.

Well said that man!

 MWHistorian wrote:
"Kiddie pool" I like that and will probably use it.

Probably not technically inaccurate either, with what I've been saying lately.

Complete with floating fecal matter.

Literally THE ONLY reason I haven't left GW is because I have too much invested already (playing since Rogue Trader) and I don't really want to learn a new ruleset. But I have stopped buying rules and models.

I'll occasionally venture into a friendly local for a game, but the days of getting excited about starting a new army and buying a ton of models are pretty much over. Now, the only models I paint are kitbashes of parts I already have.


A buddy of mine tried to get me into Infinity. I really dislike the N.Models = N.Orders mechanic, as it really doesn't make any sense at all, but aside from that the game play is solid. I like how shooting at enemy units is somewhat risky and the miniatures are fantastic. I dunno...

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Literally THE ONLY reason I haven't left GW is because I have too much invested already (playing since Rogue Trader) and I don't really want to learn a new ruleset. But I have stopped buying rules and models.

I'll occasionally venture into a friendly local for a game, but the days of getting excited about starting a new army and buying a ton of models are pretty much over. Now, the only models I paint are kitbashes of parts I already have.


A buddy of mine tried to get me into Infinity. I really dislike the N.Models = N.Orders mechanic, as it really doesn't make any sense at all, but aside from that the game play is solid. I like how shooting at enemy units is somewhat risky and the miniatures are fantastic. I dunno...

More powerful units, less orders. More weaker units, more orders to make up for it.
Also, since leaving GW, I've found that learning new rules is actually quite exciting! It's amazing what a rule set that doesn't hate the player does for a game.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Also, since leaving GW, I've found that learning new rules is actually quite exciting! It's amazing what a rule set that doesn't hate the player does for a game.

Well said that man! The wargames rules part of my bookshelf (and my hard drive) has grown a lot since I chucked 40K and FB. Part of my wargaming hobby is now collecting rules! There are a couple that turned out a bit iffy, even a bit stinky (cant stand Malifaux, f'r instance) but mostly it's been a fascinating education.

 Vermis wrote:
There are a couple that turned out a bit iffy, even a bit stinky (cant stand Malifaux, f'r instance) but mostly it's been a fascinating education.

As a fan of Malifaux, and not that I desire to change your mind, but what about the rules don't you like? (I'm usually curious as to why people dislike a certain rule set, aside from GW, because I personally think that they're ALL right and I also dont like GW rules )

Have you checked out Helldorado?