Charlton Heston...

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**reds8n**

is dead

Can't say I agreed with all his politics or views, but could you say the same about almost anyone I guess.

And he did make some cracking films, so fair play to him.

Do you think we'll get to eat him now then ?

**Miguelsan**

I´m glad he is dead, Alzaihmer is not nice illness to suffer and I needed a damn good charioteer for my Khemri army.

M.

**Hellfury**

I always thought that Chuck should have gone into the food business like Paul Newman did.

I would have bought some type of cracker product called "Heston's Own Soylent Green".

**Stormtrooper X**

I wonder if they buried him with a rifle so that we can actually try to pry it from his dead cold hands...

**Nurglitch**

Dibs on his gun!

http://www.shortpacked.com/

**akira5665**

I will still watch his Movies and enjoy them.

Pity he turned into a Donkey-Cave in his later years.

RIP Charlton Heston.

**Silverthorne**

A great guy. Made some excellent movies. My favorite is his 1990 Treasure Island with Christian Bale. Now there was a goddamn pirate for you, none of this mascara and limp-wristedness that the girls seem to find so endearing in Johnny Depp. When Charlton Heston looks at a guy on screen and says something like "Stand up and I'll show you the color of your insides" or "Then you've seen the last of me but musketballs" you BELIEVE it. He had an awesome presence in all of his films, but I always liked that role best. Plus, Christian Bale was excellent as young Jim Hawkins.

His movies weren't really what he is a giant for though. He was a true civil rights hero-- he supported MLK2 way before it was safe to do so, especially in a town as racially bigoted as Hollywood in the early 1960s. He had the first on screen love scene with a black actress in The Omega Man, which to put it lightly, was a ballsy move.

Then in the late nineties he became president of the NRA. He gets a lot of hate for it, but I notice it more in people who don't know a lot about the association. Basically, he took it from a good-old boy gun club and a stronghold of antebellum beliefs to the largest and most influential civil rights group IN THE WORLD. He drove out the racist inhabitants of the association and did his best to exorcise their ideology. He believed, very passionately as many Americans do, that the second amendment guarantees all the other ones. He was sure enough in this belief that he voluntarily destroyed what was left of his career to make a stand on it. I really can't see why so many people here and otherwise, make snide little comments about his politics when he was a civil rights champion, first for black equality, then for second amendment protections.

**Frazzled**

yes, often time death is a release from suffering.

I'm sure he's in that great chariot race in the sky as we speak.

**akira5665**

Silverthorne -I really can't see why so many people here and otherwise, make snide little comments about his politics when he was a civil rights champion, first for black equality, then for second amendment protections.

Possibly because he thought holding an NRA meeting in the townships that suffered a tradgedy(Gun related) soon after, would 'Strengthen the cause'. That pissed a lot of people off.

Considering that 11, 000 US citizens are killed each year by Gun related deaths, maybe he should have spent more time thinking about WHY you all should have guns, as is stated in the 2nd Amendment.

PS, you might want to re-phrase 'snide little comments' with ' statements I do not agrre with'.

He was a great Actor, and his championing of Afro-American rights was a milestone in American history.

As far as the NRA association is concerned though, in total disagreement.

May he rest in peace now.

**Hordini**

I have enjoyed many of his films, and he is one of my favorite actors.

I didn't know much about his championing of civil rights, but from what has been posted here, it sounds like a positive thing.

As someone who has very strong feelings concerning the 2nd Amendment, I do not hold his NRA affiliations against him. That said, I don't know a lot about what he actually did while he was their President.

Alzheimer's is a terrible thing as well, and at least now he no longer has to suffer from it.

May he rest in peace.

**Silverthorne**

I consider calling someone what you did after their death because of their political beliefs a snide comment. No? Is that unreasonable for me? I don't think you can say it is.

And you should know that the majority of 'gun deaths' in the US are suicides. So if you were trying to make a point there, go ahead and cut that number in half at a minimum. A very large part of the remainder are crimes committed by unlicensed firearms, meaning that if they have any bearing on the argument it would be to support the idea that legal gun ownership is a necessity! Just look at the VT tragedy if you think that not allowing guns keeps them out of criminals hands. It's childish. I've never met anyone from Brisvegas I didn't like, so let's drop it until... just drop it.

**Frazzled**

Heston was a fearless advocate of individual rights in many forms. Its always interesting when the PC crowd acts as if the 2nd Amendment didn't exist, and those who protect that right are somehow evil.

**akira5665**

Hang on mate, you are taking this a little too personally, methinks. I never said he was a bad person, I just stated that I thought his actions in later life detracted from his previous achievements.

Alive or not, I would have made the comment about Mr Heston, so no 'snideness' intended.

Ok, so it's only 6000 deaths from firearms in the Great US of A.(Excluding suicides, 'cleaning accidents' etc)
And as I have clearly stated before, I think it one of the greatest countries in history, for its achievements.

Is that still a defensible number Sir?

Do not take anything personally on this forum, as I could care less whether you like me or not, even though I live in 'BrisVegas'-Sir.

**Frazzled**

No not taking personally. But I defend my right to bear arms under the 2nd amendment as an equal freedom to the First Amendment and Bill of Rights as a whole.

Funny how the anti 2nd Amendment crowd gloss over that fundamental right thing, and the millions of of instances where flashing a gun, but not using it, has prevented crime.

**Silverthorne**

Yes, because taking away the ammendment wouldn't make them go away. We are the biggest arms producer in the world.... You don't think criminals would be able to get a hold of guns? Clue in a bit. And haven't guns been banned in AUS since that Farmer Ted shot everybody down in Tazzie? As soon as they banned semi-autos did all gun violence stop? Yeah, thought not.

Additionally, taking into account the differences, such as 292,00,000 more people living in the US than in Australia might help those numbers get a little more sane to you. If that doesn't work, a closer examination of the reasons for US statehood vis a vis Australian commonwealth status might be in order. Here's a hint, it had something to do with colonists and guns.

**akira5665**

You are an angry, sarcastic poster. be good to see you go on your way.

Defend your position all you like. You just sound like an ass-hat now.

@jfrazell- sorry mate, was not directing my previous post to you at all. Just this defensive Goombah.

Now I guess I can see why guns would be so popular over there.

His angry, sarcastic posts prove his intelligence/maturity with every word

Ps, 292,00,000 isn't any number I know, so 'clue in a bit.'

Stupid being so pedantic/snide, ain't it?

And here is a hint- go to the "Hello Kitty" website. You would fit right in.

**Grignard**

Ok, I didn't want to throw in my hat here because I have strong feelings about Mr. Heston and his political causes and I absolutely will not get in an argument about this, I'm just not emotionally prepared for it right now.

I will say that, as a long time NRA member, I am of course grateful to Mr. Heston for his efforts, in spite of the fact that I am rather upset with the NRA's policies right now.

So without getting into a political argument, let me say that Mr. Heston is one of the few recognizable people who supported what he believed in regardless of the political climate of his time or his associates. He supported civil rights when it wasn't cool. He supported 2nd a. rights when it wasnt popular. In fact, he has defended his beliefs when his side wasn't popular many times, which makes him a man after my own heart.

Yes, Mr. Heston made some comments later in life that would have been offensive to many people. Ironically, that is one of the reasons that I was interested in his story. Mr. Heston had Alzheimer's disease, which I have had first hand experience with. I had a close family member who died from this horrible disease, and I can assure you that victims of the illness can say some pretty wild things sometimes. They can say things that, when their mind was normal, they would never have said when their mind was "normal". They forget everything, from where they placed common household items, to names, to their basic beliefs. Honestly it was no surprise that Charlton Heston became somewhat of a figurehead president of the NRA. I don't know how bad he really got, and from my point of view, that is his business.

I must say my grandmother never forgot my name. I consider myself lucky in that aspect.

God or whatever is up there, bless him.

**legoburner**

Just a friendly reminder to all who made them that insults to the person are a violation of dakkas rules (even in heated political posts like this). Try and keep it civil or this thread will be locked up faster than me if I showed my (deactivated) enfield .303 to my local bank teller, and if necessary further action will be taken against the violators.

**Grignard**

legoburner wrote:Just a friendly reminder to all who made them that insults to the person are a violation of dakkas rules (even in heated political posts like this). Try and keep it civil or this thread will be locked up faster than me if I showed my (deactivated) enfield .303 to my local bank teller, and if necessary further action will be taken against the violators.

What use is a deactivated rifle?

In all seriousness though, what Mk is it? Reproduction?

**legoburner**

Grignard wrote:What use is a deactivated rifle?

About the same use as an activated rifle in London's leafy suburbs

It's from WW1 so is purely decorative.

**Grignard**

legoburner wrote:
Grignard wrote:What use is a deactivated rifle?

About the same use as an activated rifle in London's leafy suburbs It's from WW1 so is purely decorative.

Yah, even as a gun nut a shotgun for hunting and sport just makes more sense in the UK. There is no way I'd want to shoot most rifles there, unless I was sure of what was behind my target.

I think that is what a lot of americans ( and probably continentals) don't understand, there is probably NO WHERE perfectly safe to fire weapons in the UK, except ranges.

**Ahtman**

akira5665 wrote:Ps, 292,00,000 isn't any number I know, so 'clue in a bit.'

Ignoring all the bile and venom in your thread, I'm guessing that number is how many more Americans there are than Australians. Sure you have lower numbers of certain crimes, but you also have a far smaller population, so you have to corrct for that. Just showing incident numbers doesn't take into account that.

Grignard wrote:I think that is what a lot of americans ( and probably continentals) don't understand, there is probably NO WHERE perfectly safe to fire weapons in the UK, except ranges.

It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't think about it all probably. I know I don't go around wondering whether rifles are good in x country just for fun during my day.

**reds8n**

Silverthorne wrote:. If that doesn't work, a closer examination of the reasons for US statehood vis a vis Australian commonwealth status might be in order. Here's a hint, it had something to do with colonists and guns.

and a huge opposition at "home" to an unpopular war that had the common man broadly sympathetic to the colonies cause. Our very own Vietnam, like, wow.

**DarthDiggler**

In 2004 there were 11,000 homicides with guns in the US.

In the same year there were 42,000 automobile deaths in the US.

You can take the guns after you take everyones cars.

**Frazzled**

You can take my steering wheel when you pry it from my cold dead hands?

**reds8n**

Don't you have to own a license and pass tests for cars though ?

Or did GM get that amendment through at last ?

**Frazzled**

You have to pass a more thorough test to own a firearm, even in Texas.

Most importantly, the right to drive is not guaranteed under the Bill of Rights of the Constitution, firearms are.
(the above is not accurate in California which has a constitutional right to a vehicle. After all, nobody walks in LA...)

**DarthDiggler**

reds8n wrote:
Don't you have to own a license and pass tests for cars though ?

Or did GM get that amendment through at last ?

Not true. You need a license to drive on public roads, not to drive at all. Out West the kids can drive all over the ranch legally with no license as long as they stay off public roads.

**reds8n**

It's really a constituitional right to drive in California ? WTF ? So, hypothetically speaking, if restrictions were put in place on car usership, say due to oil shortage/enviromental concerns/prices of apples/whatever, this would require a constituitional amendment to pass or it could be challenged ?

What tests do you have to pass to own a gun then ? I was under the impression, with a dim sense that this varied possibly from state to state, that as it was a right there wouldn't be any tests at all. Live and learn I guess.

**Frazzled**

1. Joke (except for LA of course)

2. Firearms require substantive background checks.