Here's another set of Rumors on 5th ed. The one on missions kind of has me worried. That really needs to be cleared up... anyways.

Hi folks, another day, another dollar Look what tidbits fell into our little news-hungry hands for you guys to enjoy...

Cover:
All cover is 4+
If you shooting through more than 2" of cover, then your target gets a cover save.
If there is a dispute about the majority being in or out of cover, thats when the cover save with the -1 comes in.

Line of Sight:
There are no height levels, all terrain is true LoS (even jungles and woods). They will need to be modeled appropriately if they are to block LoS.

Blast Weapons:
Blast weapons don't roll to hit, but always scatter D6" minus the BS of the firer. ~Yikes, watch out for Dark Reaper Exarchs!
All models under a blast template (including partials) are automatically hit.

Skimmers:
Skimmers only get cover saves if they move over 12".

Missions:
Scoring units must be BOTH Troops and Infantry (it is unknown if jump infantry count towards this). In any case it would appear that a pure Ravenwing army might have a hard time unless they draw a VP mission.
Killpoints are apparently out, being replaced by the standard VPs in certain missions.

Perils of the Warp:
Perils now causes an automatic wound, but invulnerable saves are allowed.

Monstrous Creatures:
Monstrous creatures now have the Move Through Cover USR instead of re-rolling the difficult terrain dice.
Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn.

It might be worth it now to take Mortars in my guard lists with GL's...we shall see

Fallen668 wrote:Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn.

If this is true, it pretty much puts the kibosh on godzilla nids, nu?

Sounds good and different. LOL at non-Infantry troops not scoring. That should stick it to those 'Pure Ravenwing' fellas

So that rules out Eldar Jetbikes, Blood Angel jump inf, Hormagaunts, Ork Warbikes as troops, which others?

Jump infantry as it says in the rumour *may* count as infantry and thus scoring (it could be argued that its a subset of infantry)

Wraithswords seem a bit of a no-brainer now...

I hope that scoring units can be "Troops OR Infantry" and not that they must be both "Troops AND Infantry". Otherwise that's about the dumbest idea I've heard from GW in awhile.

~Logic

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:Wraithswords seem a bit of a no-brainer now...

what about the wasted option of the shuricats on the wraithlord's hands. Yeah... I am going to forgo shooting this star canon for a shuricat... riiiiiight.

Fallen668 wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:Wraithswords seem a bit of a no-brainer now...

what about the wasted option of the shuricats on the wraithlord's hands. Yeah... I am going to forgo shooting this star canon for a shuricat... riiiiiight.

Hahaha!

Maybe they will count as 'defensive weapons'

I've been hearing also that troops will be scoring units down to the model, not at and above 50% as it is now.

So basically this blast weapons mechanic is just the status quo in regards to standard BS method of determining accuracy, but with a 'miss' no longer disappearing into thin air.

I have to say I quite like it. It panders to the "omg it's not 'realistic' " crowd a bit, but I can't complain.

Nice changes, except:
"Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn. "

WTF? This will not only make Nidzilla players pretty angry (the carnifex kit is sold enough, eh?), but make MC's (also wraithlords) pretty sub par to tanks or am I wrong on this one?

Greets
Schepp himself

Excellent news on KPs! So GW does have some common sense. I'm pleasantly surprised.

The MC thing is ridiculous, though. One would think 5th already had enough changes to screw nidzilla (VCs sucking against vehicles, only Troops scoring), but I guess GW thought otherwise. That even Wraithlords, which were nowhere near overpowered in 4th, take a hit is also unfortunate.

Fallen668 wrote:

Blast Weapons:
Blast weapons don't roll to hit, but always scatter D6" minus the BS of the firer. ~Yikes, watch out for Dark Reaper Exarchs!
All models under a blast template (including partials) are automatically hit.

i like the idea of troops and infantry being the only scoring units afterall they should make the bulk of any army up and stops the elites/heavys power play.

Skimmers only get cover saves if they move over 12".
Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn.

HO-LEE-GAWD!

Blast weapons don't roll to hit, but always scatter D6" minus the BS of the firer. ~Yikes, watch out for Dark Reaper Exarchs!
All models under a blast template (including partials) are automatically hit.

My first reaction was, "Great, now that Dakka Fex pie plate's going to be hitting all the time." Then I saw this:

Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn.

And suddenly things don't seem so bad.

I don't buy these. At least most of them.

MCs only firing 1 weapon per turn? Possible but unlikely. We've already seen the leaked PDF that said otherwise. I'm sure they want to nerf Nidzilla, but it just doesn't sit right.

And 4+ terrain for *everything*? I've heard of streamlining, but there's no way they'll do this. No way.

Schepp himself wrote:Nice changes, except:
"Monstrous creatures may only fire one weapon per turn. "

WTF? This will not only make Nidzilla players pretty angry (the carnifex kit is sold enough, eh?)

Too frickin' bad for them, guess they'll have to go out and get an army that requires a bit of skill now....

If you knew ANYTHING about this hobby in general and the practices of GW, you KNEW that the army was going to be hit hard eventually when you were buying all those dakkafexes....you KNEW this! I dont feel the LEAST bit sorry for Nidzilla players, not even the least bit.

...as far as eldar players, so the wraithlord got hit, big deal, we've still got awesome reapers, Walkers (that now get a 4+ cover save) Prisms, and Falcons(they're STILL good, just not AS good).

(laughs since Nidzilla is so gay and unfluffy anyway)

bigchris1313 wrote:I don't buy these. At least most of them.

MCs only firing 1 weapon per turn? Possible but unlikely. We've already seen the leaked PDF that said otherwise. I'm sure they want to nerf Nidzilla, but it just doesn't sit right.

And 4+ terrain for *everything*? I've heard of streamlining, but there's no way they'll do this. No way.

I dont see why not. In AT-43 everything gets a 5+ cover save if behind cover, even AFV's.

If the squad or AFV behind cover uses the "Take cover" combat drill, they now get a 3+ cover save.

It works rather well really. Why sit there and argue about the quality of cover. Cover is as cover does, momma always said.

Okay, if these rumours are true, i am officially done with GW.

I am playing Nids and i have exactly two Carnifexes in my army. Those needed to be optimized for ranged fire, because at least something in my army list had to be effective in order to balance the trash i have in my list for style reasons (Biovores, etc.).

It was a special feature in the rule book and even the codex said so, so there was no reason not to take two guns on a Carnifex.
The problem with Godzilla is not the fact, that an individual MC is so good, it is that you can have 8 of them.
GW again totally missed the point, didn't adress the real problem, pissed of players of balanced armies and even managed to create enough fallout to affect other races (Wraithlords for Eldars).
The solution would have been to get rid of Elite Carnifexes, not totally f*ck up existing and balanced Carnifex configurations.

Screw GW, i am outta here. I will find myself a FoW group. There i can be sure, that i will be able to use my Sherman models in 3rd edition...

Stingray_tm wrote:Okay, if these rumours are true, i am officially done with GW.

I am playing Nids and i have exactly two Carnifexes in my army. Those needed to be optimized for ranged fire, because at least something in my army list had to be effective in order to balance the trash i have in my list for style reasons (Biovores, etc.).

It was a special feature in the rule book and even the codex said so, so there was no reason not to take two guns on a Carnifex.
The problem with Godzilla is not the fact, that an individual MC is so good, it is that you can have 8 of them.
GW again totally missed the point, didn't adress the real problem, pissed of players of balanced armies and even managed to create enough fallout to affect other races (Wraithlords for Eldars).

Screw GW, i am outta here.

Guess what, if you're into Tyranid Fluff, 'Nids are SUPPOSED to be a horde army with tons of little 'uns, and some big 'uns accompanying them. While there might be the occasional attack of primarily big ones, this isnt the norm. This problem is now addressed without having to write an entire new codex.

You've got a whole army yet you're THAT upset about 2-4 models (possilby including the tyrants?) in the whole army getting adversly effected? You need to step back and look at the rules as a whole and not just how your big monsters got effected, with the new cover rules, tyranids can exploit much.

Big bugs getting it up the pooper when it comes to shooting is a sorry reason to quit a hobby, but whatever. Apparently you werent that dedicated in the first place, so it's not that much a loss to GW anyway. You wont be missed.

I have a very swarmy list with only two Carnifexes, which are needed to support my little critters with fire, so they can close in. Now i am supposed to change my models (to satisfy WYSIWYG), that i converted, so the strangler/VC combination doesn't look like crap? And for no other reason than GW screwing up with the Nid codex, because they wanted to sell Carnifex models and now have sold enough?
Sorry, the problem is not only about those 2 models, it is about the way how GW treats its customers and game system. They use a sledgehammer, where a scalpel is needed. I no longer want to be part of this game, where you are expected to take gak like that.

1. You dont HAVE to change your models. Are they still legal? Can you play with them?

2. If you want them to be more effective, simply change the limbs...it really isnt that difficult.

3. Stop crying

AND/OR

3.5- Vote with your wallet and quit, nobody feels sorry for you. (except silly big bug players)

Deadshane1 wrote:1. You dont HAVE to change your models. Are they still legal? Can you play with them?

2. If you want them to be more effective, simply change the limbs...it really isnt that difficult.

3. Stop crying

AND/OR

3.5- Vote with your wallet and quit, nobody feels sorry for you.

Actually I do feel sort of bad for the Nid players like him who took two (admittedly very good) Carnifex's in Heavy to do anti-tank duty with a VC/BS combo.

That's almost $100 in models, plus the time spent to paint & base them, and now the configuration has gone out the window in a few strokes of the pen.

Granted it fills the one glaring weakness in the Nid list, and it fills it so very well and so efficiently that I can understand people being upset about such an obvious and easy answer being available in the book...but that's still a good unit choice that can be used in a balanced and fluffy army and now people are screwed out of almost $100 worth of models that they will have to either modify and re-paint, use and waste points on, or just not use the models again.

That Sucks, and all to stop Dakka Fex's. What a bad way to do things.

So you don't like Nidzilla? Fine. I don't either. So why exactly are you implying, that i am a Nidzilla player or support their playstyle, even though i stated, that i don't and that i complain, that this is a bad solution, because there would have been better ones to solve the problem?

1. My models are legal, but they are extremely ineffective and overcosted now.

2. I CONVERTED my models. Why should i be forced to destroy the work i have put into it, just because GW says so? Bad example, but do you paint over the Mona Lisa, if the museum director wants to have a more sexy face on it?

3. Why? I voice my opinion. You don't like it, maybe you should ignore it. Nobody forced you to reply to my post.

Well, I like much of what I've just read. I LOVE that terrain is actual LOS. I frikkin HATED that infinitely tall stand of trees. It annoyed me. However, the bit about shooting through 2" of cover seems a little goofy. Why would a guy in the open get a cover save because you are shooting through 2" of cover? Makes no sense.

I can't say I mind the MC only shooting one weapon. I never took more than a single Bright Lance or Star Cannon on my Wraithlord anyway. Well, I took a flamer/shuri-cat combo, but I was so rarely in range to shoot them that it's a moot point.

I don't like the bit about only infantry troop choices counting as scoring units. That's kinda dumb. It takes away some of the strengths that make units worthwhile. For instance, Guardian Jetbikes. Their strength is in their mobility over other Guardians. Not being 'scoring' almost makes them worthless to bring at the cost they come with. I see this as another case of a chronic Games Workshop problem.
"Let's make a rule, then we'll make rules to counter our original rule."

Also:

Deadshane1 wrote:so it's not that much a loss to GW anyway. You wont be missed.

Ow... Harsh.


Ghidorah

Blast Weapons:
Blast weapons don't roll to hit, but always scatter D6" minus the BS of the firer. ~Yikes, watch out for Dark Reaper Exarchs!
All models under a blast template (including partials) are automatically hit.

WOOT! Time to dust off the other two monoliths!

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Actually I do feel sort of bad for the Nid players like him who took two (admittedly very good) Carnifex's in Heavy to do anti-tank duty with a VC/BS combo.

That's almost $100 in models, plus the time spent to paint & base them, and now the configuration has gone out the window in a few strokes of the pen.

Granted it fills the one glaring weakness in the Nid list, and it fills it so very well and so efficiently that I can understand people being upset about such an obvious and easy answer being available in the book...but that's still a good unit choice that can be used in a balanced and fluffy army and now people are screwed out of almost $100 worth of models that they will have to either modify and re-paint, use and waste points on, or just not use the models again.

That Sucks, and all to stop Dakka Fex's. What a bad way to do things.

...but he ISNT screwed out of 100 bucks in models, that's my point.

If he's that concerned with his creation that he doesnt want to mess up his paint job or break the limbs off, fine, gaming isnt that important to you when you consider your crafting of the model...leave it as is and play a sub-par 'fex, its legal.

If gaming tactics are foremost, bust that extra gun off and put some talons on it. It's easy, and lots of people out there will just GIVE you the bits to do it....even I would...for free if I had them, and I dont even feel sorry for him.

Yes, stop dakkafexs, they're crap. Amend the rules so that NO codex can do the same in the futur building a tactic around High Str and rerolls when none are needed. (guided wraithlords with shuricannon and scatterlaser at doomed units) ...do you really need rerolls to wound when the str is so high? I dont think so, and building a list around that seems like the cheapest of tactics. Thats why noone needs to act surprised that this has happened. It's not balanced, monstrous creatures have BIG guns, they've nerfed basic walker shooting, is it really that surprising that Monstrous Creatures can only shoot one weapon now? When I think of a big burly creature/daemon, your average guardsman isnt afraid of him because he's going to get shot....he's afraid to be eaten "Gamorean Guard" style by some Rancor! THAT is what monstrous creatures are for....NOT shooting. The rules reflect that now. Its not about Nids losing firepower, its about the "character" of a Monstrous Creature...what they're supposed to do in-game.

Stingray_tm wrote:So you don't like Nidzilla? Fine. I don't either. So why exactly are you implying, that i am a Nidzilla player or support their playstyle, even though i stated, that i don't and that i complain, that this is a bad solution, because there would have been better ones to solve the problem?

I never said that you in particular are a 'Zilla player. You may be suffering from a fix that specifically effects them. I'm perfectly aware that you have 2-4 MC's total in your list.

Stingray_tm wrote:
1. My models are legal, but they are extremely ineffective and overcosted now.

2. I CONVERTED my models. Why should i be forced to destroy the work i have put into it, just because GW says so? Bad example, but do you paint over the Mona Lisa, if the museum director wants to have a more sexy face on it?

Noone is forcing you to buy new models, but this hobby is entertainment, entertainment frequently requires you to throw money at it to continue to be entertained. Were you complaining this much when you had to buy a new playstation or xbox after they made improvements and created a new advanced console in the newest version? Did you complain every time a new LotR movie cam out? It's the same thing. If you want to enjoy this hobby to the utmost, you cannot expect to spend your money, and then be done. Never again having to spend money....you're not really that daft I'm sure.

Stingray_tm wrote:
3. Why? I voice my opinion. You don't like it, maybe you should ignore it. Nobody forced you to reply to my post.

And I'm voicing MY opinion.....