Fresh from Warseer!

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Ok - Just had a phone convo with someone who had the new white dwarf
sat in front of them. New white dwarf list includes.

Lords
Chaos lord
Chaos sorcerer
Daemon Prince

DP seemed to be the Hordes DP (fly/terror) but with true ward save.
However he had NO access to any gifts.

Mark of Khorne gave MR1 and frenzy
Mark of Slaanesh gave ItP
Nurgle gave fear (think still +1W but didn't ask)
Tzeentch costs 10 points and gave a 6+ ward......?!!! Goodbye warrior
mage.(20 points for units to have 6+ ward)

Heroes
same

Core
Warriors 12 points, + 5 chosen (one unit). Same stats.
Marauders, same
Warhounds, same

That's it. No cultists.

Special
Marauder Horsemen
Chariots
Knights

Rare
Hellcannon
Spawn
Chaos Giant.

Magic Items
Most have been thrown away with nothing to replace them. All magic
items including the common ones fit on a single page.

There were no decent weapons and the sword which used to turn you into
a GD now just adds +1 to a few stats.

Armour
Didn't notice any changes here except the +1T armour may have disappeared.

Talisman
Crown of Regen and Golden Eye. That's it.

Enchanted
Helm was still about

Arcane
Staff of Change gone up to 70 points plus can only be used for casting.
Power familiar renamed chaos famililar and down to 40 points.
Skull of Katam still the same.
Think spell familiar disappeared as did everything else.

Banner
125 stubborn banner and banner of wrath power Lv 5. That's it.

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UNFORTUNATE

I hold out that this isn't true or there's some caveat in there, but otherwise ... craptasm!

EDIT -- Just noticed marauder cav are special, in addition to the knights and chariots. Screw that noise.

- Salvage

Well of course.

It's a WD only list.

GW wants to sell Demons.

So yeah. they got nerfed.

I expected something along the lines of "here's your new striped down army list options with a couple new things thrown as a bone whilst the beast and demons have left, now go buy the Hordes book before we replace it and use the stats / magic items there-in." Not ... this, though ultimately the removal of the few good magic weapons sucks more than the other lost items. I hold out that tricky / decent builds can still be had, but the inability to go 100% mounted is le dung.

- Salvage

Wow. Mortal Chaos blew pretty hard before with a few decent builds (and the crazy Tzeentch mega magic ones), but now they are just look awful. People will probably just stick with the current HoC book.

I guess they really do want you to buy daemons now.

Good lord there isn't even that much crap in a diarrhea factory!

If I played Mortals I probably would be at my local GW store throwing my metal models through the window if that happened to my army.

Steady on gus you do have the option of taking the extremely overpowered unit of marauder horsemen as special....
Gee whiz that sounded weak.

Sounds pretty disasterous.

*Gets on soapbox*
GW should be using lists released in WD as test beds for where they want to take their armies, not as stripped down stop gaps. They get thousands of free playtesters and through internet forums and talking to players and tourneys they can see what is right and what is wrong and end up with a thing of beauty... rather than marauder horsemen as special.

Don't you know, its like what they did to High Elves - NOTHING IN CORE CAN BE USEFUL!

At least HE got 6 Specials and only 2 Core as a requirement. VC got off with their core being stupidly good, but that's a necessity because they're undead and the thing that really "breaks" them is what their characters do to supplement it.

But for HoC they're like High Elves but have nothing to compensate for their terrible core. Unless Mauraders got a points drop and/or light armor+shield in their current base cost, then this list is going to suffer a ton.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:GW should be using lists released in WD as test beds for where they want to take their armies, not as stripped down stop gaps. They get thousands of free playtesters and through internet forums and talking to players and tourneys they can see what is right and what is wrong and end up with a thing of beauty... rather than marauder horsemen as special.

This would require:

A) GW to listen to their customer base
B) Use the internet as 2-way communication, rather than just a place to post product sales sheets (Apoc data sheets) and an online store.

*grumble grumble* Why do I always manage to pick the red headed step children of lists? It's like I am cruising for chicks at the methadone clinic.

Meh, I say rock the current book without demons or beasts until the real Chaos Mortals book comes out late this year. If for some reason you're not playing with me or Studder, or want to mess with this pile of a "list", then I guess it's free article download ftw (shortly after the WD comes out), no reason to pay for this thing.

- Salvage

Well, yea you have a good point. And there is no way in hell I am dropping more cash on the "small army" which is going to end up costing more than 300$ if I am not careful.

I swear though, it's like I have a psychic ability to find the most abused/ignored codexes and fall in love.

"Aww, little Witch Hunters, wipe the smeared mascara out from around your little raccoon eyes. You can come home with me! You too penitent engines, we will have a nice party."
It's only the next week when I realize they have stolen my tv in order to buy a gram of coke.

Ummm... High Elf Core aren't useful?

Tell that to all the spear elf running High Elf players that seem to be doing quite well...

It is just a list to use as a stopgap until they put out a full army. It is probably a bit of a playtest as well.

Special makes marauder horsemen compete with things that are always taken, thus, they will not be.

I for one welcome these new rumors.

I mean seriously, my 4 unit tzeentch army now gets a 6+ ward save. That's huge!!!!!!! Why would marking warriors with tzeentch give power dice they can't use? Atleast they can make use of that great ward save now.

Chaos is overpowered.

I have had chaos mortals since 4th edition. I haven't minded at all as they've gotten progressively weeker because, well, they should. Khorne knights with banner of rage used to be SICK. I like the army not the rules.

That being said, taking away demons, beasts, and now this... I just lost flayerkin as well which were an intereting mortal unit and fun to convert. I am still being patient and giving GW time, but I have 6000 points of nicely painted chaos that I was thinking about ebaying if things continued to go south. What really blows is that if the final list looks at all like this... no one will buy them.

I completely agree with Gabe's assessment. MOT giving extra power dice makes no sense AT ALL. A 6+ ward save is so much better too because now, they have a way to give their army a ward save as they couldn't before. And Staff of Change was SOOO BROKEN, in fact, it was the most broken thing in WHFB so it's good it got nerfed.

Now Chaos is even MORE OVERPOWERED!!!1

That is a horrible list. If this is the real list the creative team must be sleeping during the design sessions.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but so far it does not look good for Chaos Mortals before November.

Wow that's ...rough. I'm glad I sold off my Chaos mortal stuff a long time ago.

It seems like they just took the one or two viable builds (lots of chariots and knights, Tzeentch magic army of doom), made them suck, kept the stuff that already sucked terrible and then flushed the magic items just for good measure. What did Chaos do to piss GW off? First chaos marines in 40k, now this. At least on the Fantasy side the demons still look strong (just without all of the previous possibilities of running mortals and beasts ...not that you'd want to use any of this mortal crap).

i saw the extract today at my local gw -
chaos knights 28 points each, +10 for chosen then extra for a mark
nurgle mark is fear only
warhounds don't count against your min core allocation
demon prince is 350 points
60 point sword that gives +1 wound with no upper limit! (ie hack and slash a 10man skirmish unit to have 14 wounds! nasty)

Nope, sorry. That's just too lame for me. I'll keep using my old army book for now. If they had thrown in some cool cultists, flagellants, and thrall wizards, I probably would have bit, but not this. It's just too boring.

This is sad...

The HoC, Beasts and Daemon lists were a lot of fun to model, paint and play.

Now, we're left with... this?

Ugh.

I hope a 'proper' Chaos Mortals book is not that far off...

Gabe wrote:I for one welcome these new rumors.

I mean seriously, my 4 unit tzeentch army now gets a 6+ ward save. That's huge!!!!!!! Why would marking warriors with tzeentch give power dice they can't use? Atleast they can make use of that great ward save now.

Chaos is overpowered.

Did you even KNOW the list? The power dice they generated wen to the ARMY Pool, so it could be used by ANY wizard. I'd much prefer that than the crap Ward, but then, my Characters aren't Wizards any more, either.

Ugh, the list looks awfully boring and some of the glaring issues of mortals list still remain intact (the overpriced/poor warriors and the silly golden eye). No warmachine hunters and skirmishers and most of the stuff is now special. So the gameplan is that I walk forwards with footslogging crap and you shoot/magic me to death, god forbid If I use mainly chaos warriors?

I'm very temped to stick with the current HoC-book for now until the new book actually comes out.

Platuan4th wrote:

Gabe wrote:I for one welcome these new rumors.

I mean seriously, my 4 unit tzeentch army now gets a 6+ ward save. That's huge!!!!!!! Why would marking warriors with tzeentch give power dice they can't use? Atleast they can make use of that great ward save now.

Chaos is overpowered.

Did you even KNOW the list? The power dice they generated wen to the ARMY Pool, so it could be used by ANY wizard. I'd much prefer that than the crap Ward, but then, my Characters aren't Wizards any more, either.

/sarcasm

This is a terrible list. We've already agreed that the local Chaos player can continue using the HoC book. Her favorite units are the horrors so I think dropping them would depress her too much.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I think that pretty much sums it up .

Holy crap. That is pathetic.

I've played HoC for years, since about 3rd ed. I think GW's love affair with chaos is finally over.

This is seriously terrible. 2 banners? Magic items fitting on one page?

Ok - attention GW developers - You have lost your vision and desire to write a decent list. Please hire someone else. (Phil Kelly excluded).

If that's really the list, then that is bull pucky.

If I play Fantasy before the new Chaos book comes out (which is honestly a bit unlikely, since no one else in my group really plays), I will be using the HoC book, and to hell with White Dwarf lists.

Why would anyone waste their time with a list like this? Seriously.

Gabe wrote:I for one welcome these new rumors.

I mean seriously, my 4 unit tzeentch army now gets a 6+ ward save. That's huge!!!!!!! Why would marking warriors with tzeentch give power dice they can't use? Atleast they can make use of that great ward save now.

Chaos is overpowered.

Hey, an army with T4 and a 6+ save has a lot going for it.

Guys, writing as someone who just painted two herds, a tuskgor chariot, and two units of marauder cav for my Hordes army, I really don’t think it’s the end of the world. It IS ass, but it’s still just a WD list. The actual army book should be much better. Here’s just hoping its not too long a wait.

Pah! Could be years. Remember how long Wood Elves labored under a WD list?