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Dysartes wrote:

shasolenzabi wrote:

Dysartes wrote:I'm in shock - I think I may have gotten a good cast of Arjac Rockfist.

There's a lot of flash present, and a couple of mold lines, but I've only spotted one very small bubble on the edge of his heel - which will be hidden by basing material.

I'll get some pics up on Monday/Tuesday, and the experts can see if I've missed anything - I'll also take a further look using my 3x magnifiers, and see if anything else stands out.

Having said that, the one in the case at Warhammer World on Sunday having a drooping hammer amused me - really shouldn't've put him so close to the lights in the case...

Yes! Please show us a decent FC model it will be educational. Still compared to so many failures of FC so far in this thread it will be good, please make sure to have clear and crisp pics if you can.

I'll do my best.

As promised - I couldn't improve the contrast on the torso shots, unfortunately.

That really does look pretty damn good. I certainly wouldn't be complaining* if that was the standard I could expect on buying something. Sad thing is though, I think you were damn lucky.


*: Ok, I might still bitch about the price a bit, but I do compare to other companies.

Yeah that looks amazing. I could see that Shield being a total nightmare to get a good cast of so to see it done perfectly is a pleasant surprise.

Aye, apart from the flash and a very small bubble on the bottom edge of his left foot (looking from behind) I haven't seen any problems.

The flash is going to take a while to clean up, but I do like the sculpt.

Mind you, at this rate my Space Wolves are just going to be characters (Rune Priest, Ulrik, Arjac) - now I need to find a metal Logan Grimnar...

Dysartes wrote:Aye, apart from the flash and a very small bubble on the bottom edge of his left foot (looking from behind) I haven't seen any problems.

Might just be the picture, but looks like a couple of air bubbles on the hammer arm shoulder, and the banding on the shield arm cabling is pretty ratty. The hammer also looks quite warped... The pommel in particular looks like it would need cutting off and reattaching in order to straighten it up.

The rest of him does look pretty spot on, though.

insaniak wrote:Might just be the picture, but looks like a couple of air bubbles on the hammer arm shoulder, and the banding on the shield arm cabling is pretty ratty. The hammer also looks quite warped... The pommel in particular looks like it would need cutting off and reattaching in order to straighten it up.

Where on the shoulder, insaniak? I'll have another look. Not sure which bit you're referring to on the shield arm cabling, either.

I've taken another look at the hammer, and you're right about there being warping - looking at it edge-on, it looks like a bit like a ~ (though not quite that sharp). Still, that should realign with some warm water, right?

Dysartes wrote:Where on the shoulder, insaniak? I'll have another look

Just under the end of the bottom right crossbone, and one the 'ring' around the skull on the top right... although that one is probably just shadowing from the ring itself.

Still, one or two bubbles I could live with... the cabling and the hammer would be a real issue for me.

. Not sure which bit you're referring to on the shield arm cabling, either.

The cable with all the little flat rings around it... they're all uneven. The should all have straight edges, but instead they're all warped and have pieces missing from their edges.

I've taken another look at the hammer, and you're right about there being warping - looking at it edge-on, it looks like a bit like a ~ (though not quite that sharp). Still, that should realign with some warm water, right?

The head should realign, but I doubt you'll get the pommel straight without cutting it.

Here you go people

Evening Luna,

I'm sat here with the two sprues resting on my chest, and I'm struggling to see what the flaws are you've highlighted.

Top-left image (torso, front-on)
- Hip plate, upper circle: Not sure what you're highlighting here, though the image is poorly lit. Comparing to the 360 on the GW site, all the wolf's head detail (and both rivets) are present.
- Hip plate, lower circle: I presume this is referring to the piece of resin coming down off the corner of the plate? If so, that is in place on multiple places around he edges of both hip plates, normally at corners. They're not present on the 360, so I had them down as awkward flash to be carefully cleaned up.
- Tabard: Again, I can't tell what you're trying to highlight here, apart from another awkward vent. From what I can see on the 30, the bottom edge is meant to be slightly tattered.

Arm sprue, upper picture
- Shield, upper edge: Can't see what you're highlighting here. Can't see a problem with the cast IRL.
- Shield, western edge of design: See previous comment.

Arm sprue, lower picture
- Shield: There's some flash to clean up up there, but that seems to be about it.
- Hammer arm: That forearm-mounted doohickey is a bit of a concern, thanks to a fairly nasty vent coming off it. I need to take a look once I've de-sprued the piece.

Dysartes wrote:Evening Luna,

Hallo Dys

The thing I circled are based on the photograph as seeing.
whether the actual model are like that or not I cannot say.

Maybe this helps abit ( even then its based off your pic )
so dunno maybe you can take pic of the circled parts with proper lighting :x




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another one

I think I see what you're getting at on the tabard now - the fourth rune around (counting from the right) is weirdly cast. It is visible when the model is upright (and shadows are falling), but isn't really visible when the model is on its back (and no shadows are there).

My previous observations on the other three highlighted areas still stand, by the way.

Im not here to make any arguments or claims Dysartes.

You hold the actual product, while I can only circle what seems to be flaws based on your picture.

Not saying I dont believe you, now Im just curious to what it looks like under a better picture :'P

LunaHound wrote:Im not here to make any arguments or claims Dysartes.

Apologies, Luna - I'm not trying to get into an argument here.

What I should have said is that a little description to go with the circles might help me understand what to look for, that's all - see insaniak's posts as examples.

Checked out all 8 Empire Witch Hunters the local GW had, and there were 0 acceptable ones among them.

Six of them needed the top of the barrel/muzzle of the pistol resculpted (+ other issues). This is a particular weak spot of this cast, apparently. There were also a couple of the (top of the) sword handles + part of the feathers missing, and even one unfortunate fellow who left the factory without a nose

Another model I have yet to find without flaw is Vlad. Every time I find the outstretched clawed hand has it's fingers either half missing and/or being paper-thin flints + the ring is mangled somehow.

It's really a shame because I do want both of these miniatures.

Actually took a second look at my Witch Hunter, I'd like to add that there's a pretty bad bubble on the underside of the cuffs of one of his boots. It's not unfixable, and can be covered up fairly easily, but it's still quite dissapointing.

It's getting harder and harder to consider the model barely okay.

Luna, what exactly are you expecting from a miniature?

Until a company breeds some actual miniature humans for us to paint, they are going to be at least a little flawed, they make minis by pouring liquids into big machines, not birthing them with magic.

My point is, that looks to be an excellent model, the runes on the hammer and shield are spot on, and your just being ridiculously picky if your going to ultra zoom into things and go "aha!"

If its invisible to a naked eyeball 2 feet away, who gives a gak whats visible when you blow an image up?!

If I zoom x250 onto my hands before I eat a sandwich I bet there is all sorts of gak on them, but Ill still go ahead and eat.

I care, but I'm a painter not a gamer.

That said, that cast isn't bad at all from what I can see. I'd accept it, as I said earlier, and I wouldn't be complaining anywhere near as much if this was the typical standard I got.

I picked up an emperors champion today, it's a pretty good summery of my experience with finecast so far. It looks fine from the front but when you pick it up there are a ton of bubbles underneath. All in all it will only take an hour or so with some liquid greenstuff to fix everything so I wouldn't bother with a refund or anything but that is still an hour or so wasted

jonolikespie wrote:I picked up an emperors champion today, it's a pretty good summery of my experience with finecast so far. It looks fine from the front but when you pick it up there are a ton of bubbles underneath. All in all it will only take an hour or so with some liquid greenstuff to fix everything so I wouldn't bother with a refund or anything but that is still an hour or so wasted

And Mark Wells thanks you for supporting Finecast!

Change the medium to reduce costs + raise prices + don't significantly change the labor cost* + people still buy and don't ask for refunds = WIN!

People are buying...people are buying and when the product is defective they don't take action like asking for a refund. Thereby proving to GW that quality is not key for most customers who buy Finecast.

*I have no idea just guessing and it's all IMHO of course. My independent FLGS said to me that Finecast has sold better than metals ever did, btw.

My son actually got a really good Trazyn the Infinite a couple of weeks ago. The staff was a little bent, but fixable with hot water. No marring of any details. Small amount of flash, but on par with a metal model. I don't think I saw any bubbling at all.

He's got it painted up but he didn't have to do any repairs on it. Good to know they're starting to pull wins every once in a while.

Consul Scipio wrote:

jonolikespie wrote:I picked up an emperors champion today, it's a pretty good summery of my experience with finecast so far. It looks fine from the front but when you pick it up there are a ton of bubbles underneath. All in all it will only take an hour or so with some liquid greenstuff to fix everything so I wouldn't bother with a refund or anything but that is still an hour or so wasted

And Mark Wells thanks you for supporting Finecast!

Change the medium to reduce costs + raise prices + don't significantly change the labor cost* + people still buy and don't ask for refunds = WIN!

People are buying...people are buying and when the product is defective they don't take action like asking for a refund. Thereby proving to GW that quality is not key for most customers who buy Finecast.

*I have no idea just guessing and it's all IMHO of course. My independent FLGS said to me that Finecast has sold better than metals ever did, btw.

Dont worry, the haters do more than enough whinging to cover the white knights and the normal people in the middle, I think they get the message.

jonolikespie wrote:I picked up an emperors champion today, it's a pretty good summery of my experience with finecast so far. It looks fine from the front but when you pick it up there are a ton of bubbles underneath. All in all it will only take an hour or so with some liquid greenstuff to fix everything so I wouldn't bother with a refund or anything but that is still an hour or so wasted

Take that gak back and get your refund.

Seriously. It's not acceptable even as only a 'game' piece. The condition of the back and front shoulder is horrendous. That's not a 'fix'. That's practucally a resculpt job.

Do not just accept it. It will not improve if you do. Take that back and either get a suitable replacement or demand a refund.

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Seriously. It's not acceptable even as only a 'game' piece. The condition of the back and front shoulder is horrendous. That's not a 'fix'. That's practucally a resculpt job.

Really!?, you would complain about that?
the backpack mount will be hidden by the back pack,
the left shoulder is on the end of a purity seal, so 4 seconds to shave that down,
and the chest, 3 seconds to blob a tiny bit of liquid GS

crazyrossboy wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Seriously. It's not acceptable even as only a 'game' piece. The condition of the back and front shoulder is horrendous. That's not a 'fix'. That's practucally a resculpt job.

Really!?, you would complain about that?
the backpack mount will be hidden by the back pack,
the left shoulder is on the end of a purity seal, so 4 seconds to shave that down,
and the chest, 3 seconds to blob a tiny bit of liquid GS

Good lord! 72 pages in and the white knights are still being ridiculously obtuse. To repeat, just because we CAN does not mean we SHOULD!

GW market Finecast as the best in the world, equivalent to the moon landing, best thing EVAR since sliced bread etc etc. So it has to meet these claims. Not least as GW have built up a reputation in the past as being regarded as the top of the industry and thus certain standards will be expected of them, they're not some garage job.

Yes, I admit that having to resculpt an entire face or models missing arms is a good reason to ask for a replacement,
but looking at this thread it seems that the general consensus is that all metal minis were perfect every time,
and finecast is made from wattle and dorb.

But if we calcluate the percentage of "good" (ie; minimal work needed) models, to minis that have serious issues
from what I've herd and seen its still in a ratio of about 50/1
not bad really if you ask me

crazyrossboy wrote:
But if we calcluate the percentage of "good" (ie; minimal work needed) models, to minis that have serious issues
from what I've herd and seen its still in a ratio of about 50/1
not bad really if you ask me

So a 2% fail rate. Something that is unacceptable in ANY industry.

crazyrossboy wrote:
But if we calcluate the percentage of "good" (ie; minimal work needed) models, to minis that have serious issues
from what I've herd and seen its still in a ratio of about 50/1
not bad really if you ask me

Going back to the chap who had 8-9 Necrons that were poorly cast in a row, I would love to see the odds on that if it is indeed only 1 in 50 that are flawed. From my experience, I would put it some way higher - allowing of course for what you deem to be acceptable/how picky you are. What is indisputable however, is that even if we did have casting flaws in metal, they were significantly less than with FC. In fact, in over 20 years of collecting thousands of pounds of stuff, I don't think I have ever had 1 significant miscast.

Both the Grotesque I ordered, and Lelith I got are flawed.
Both Leliths in the local GW were flawed, the better one looked alright but turned out to be miscast (front and back halves weren't aligned, about a half-mm to a mm), the replacement was better, but had a hole in her buttock, and a few bubbles here and there (fixed with liquid GS / irrelevant because I was converting those bits into oblivion).

The Grotesque was also for a conversion, but had a bubble in his stomach, the stomach needed minor resculpting due to flash, and there were holes in a few places. A couple of the 'spines' on its back were half gone because of bubbles.

If the bubbles had conveniently been where stuff was going for the conversion, it would have been a writeoff tbh.

And TBH, every finecast model I've looked at instore has either been misaligned, warped, or has bubbles/excess resin meaning it requires resculpting.
This is far from a 1 in 50 miscast rate, in my experience its been a 100% rate of flaws, easily a 1 in 3 chance of needing to be resulpted to some degree, which imo is unnaceptable when each individual model costs £10-20

Grimtuff wrote:

crazyrossboy wrote:
But if we calcluate the percentage of "good" (ie; minimal work needed) models, to minis that have serious issues
from what I've herd and seen its still in a ratio of about 50/1
not bad really if you ask me

So a 2% fail rate. Something that is unacceptable in ANY industry.

Not entirely true. That's still about a 3.55 Sigma. A Sigma level of 3-4 (or between 66k and 6k DPMO) is considered 'Standard' in many industries.

Pacific wrote:

crazyrossboy wrote:
But if we calcluate the percentage of "good" (ie; minimal work needed) models, to minis that have serious issues
from what I've herd and seen its still in a ratio of about 50/1
not bad really if you ask me

Going back to the chap who had 8-9 Necrons that were poorly cast in a row, I would love to see the odds on that if it is indeed only 1 in 50 that are flawed. From my experience, I would put it some way higher - allowing of course for what you deem to be acceptable/how picky you are. What is indisputable however, is that even if we did have casting flaws in metal, they were significantly less than with FC. In fact, in over 20 years of collecting thousands of pounds of stuff, I don't think I have ever had 1 significant miscast.

I picked up two crypteks, an overlord, trazyn, and imotekh. All were mail ordered and arrived in pretty rough shape. Over the past few months I have been searching for replacements for them and have yet to find any acceptable ones in either of the FLGS's I frequent. I've resorted to making my command models out of the lychguard kits.

I've seen some good finecast models, but not a single acceptable necron one. I believe they may be some of the owrst examples based on personal experience. I do have a near-flawless supreme sorceress and assassin, but I will only purchase finecast figures after inspecting them through the clamshell and at the point of sale so that I can immediately return them if need be.

I'd just love to see some kind of resolution. Either go back to metal, or improve the casting process.