Switch Theme:

Stormcaller - Space Wolf Psychic Ability  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




This SW psychic ability grants always strike first to the unit.

Does this mean PFs and Thunder Hammers strike first as well, since the rulebook states that these are not affected by Initiative modifiers, but the SW psychic ability just grants strike first rather than an initiative bonus?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

You should post rules quotes to help make answers more liable to refer to the rulebook.

I haven't, because you didn't.

By RAW, if that's how it's worded...sure.

I personally think there's something you are missing, though it's quite possible you aren't. Lots of loopholes.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I will post the rules references when I get back. The stormcaller ability is worded exactly as per the DE Wyches strike first ability.
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






From the Codex:

...This unit counts as being in cover for rules purposes and so will receive a 5+ cover save and will strike first in close combat until the end of the following enemy turn.

Emphasis mine. Remember that this rule was written in 3rd edition (!) so refers to rules that are no longer in effect (or are no longer quite the same).

The "and so" part can be read as either a reminder on how cover works (well, worked), or as an amendment to how the rules work. I tend to lean towards the former, and just apply the current cover rules and treat any enemy assaulting that unit as having Initiative 1. Not precisely RAW (they didn't make a difficult terrain test...), but it feels like the least messy solution.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2008/09/24 11:15:45


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

That's not how GW rules work.

The unit gets a 5+ cover save (this IS in the main rulebook) not a 4+.

If it says strike first, they strike first. Simple as that. First means first means first, after all.

You are right it IS messy. Very much so.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




According to the 5E main rule book, p42:

[A]ttacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1 (ignore Initiative bonuses from special rules, wargear, etc.).


I'd say that means the SW PF would still go last.
   
Made in gb
Proud Phantom Titan







ah ha but the rule doesn't give them an Initiative bonuse, it lets them go first, so the power fist still strike first even against I10 models ... nasty rule but thats what you get with a codex that far out of date
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Essentially here's what happens:

I have ASF.

You don't.

We go in I order.

In the ASF phase, I strike at I4 then I1.

Then you go in the normal non-ASF phase.

Welcome to broken rule hell. Enjoy your stay.

Gav will be along shortly...

   
Made in gb
1st Lieutenant







See the way I read it the 'will receive a 5+ cover save and will strike first in close combat until the end of the following enemy turn' is preceded by the phrase 'and so' that's a conditional clause, the second bit is true because the first bit is.

The first bit 'This unit counts as being in cover for rules purposes' that's the bot that counts, this is what the book says the power does. The conditional bit is based on the first part, so the model counts as being in cover, that means it has a 4+ cover save.

The 'and strike first' bit is the hard bit, cover as we know has changed, but it says strike first not strike as in cover so whilst RAI and common sense say one thing RAW may win there. Now as far as fists go, as someone pointed out it says 'always strike at I1' so you have the classic irresistible force vs immovable object, now you can say rulebook overrides codex or codex overrides rulebook, or do the system ofdice for it as both are always right.

My FOW Blog
http://breakthroughassault.blogspot.co.uk/

My Eldar project log (26/7/13)
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5518969#post5518969

Exiles forum
http://exilesbbleague.phpbb4ever.com/index.php 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





Los Angeles

Cheexsta wrote:From the Codex:

...This unit counts as being in cover for rules purposes and so will receive a 5+ cover save and will strike first in close combat until the end of the following enemy turn.


Balzac wrote:According to the 5E main rule book, p42:
[A]ttacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1 (ignore Initiative bonuses from special rules, wargear, etc.).


Seems clear to me. Normal guys go first because that's what the rule says. Power fist goes at Initiative 1 because the rules state that they ALWAYS go at initiative 1. There is nothing in the codex rule that would contradict the ALWAYS stated in the main rules. Now if the codex said that they always go first, then you would have a quandry, but with it stated as it is, things that let you ignore cover (like frag grenades) and such would be an effective counter to stormcaller (since it specificaly states that the benifits are due to cover).

**** Phoenix ****

Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA


I'm with Reaver83, the Stormcaller rules simply do not say anything coherent as written currently. There just is no way to play 'RAW' with this power.

The bonus granted is because the unit is in cover, but the ability of cover no longer grants the bonus implied by the rule.

The key is that the power causes the unit to count as being in cover. Everything else in the rule is just an expression of what being in cover grants and is completely incorrect with the current rules.

If anything, the power does nothing in close combat currently because a unit being 'in cover' means nothing in the current rules if the enemy doesn't have to make a difficult terrain check to reach them.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut







Just to clarify

The second printing of the SW codex states that you only go first if assaulted. Alot of SW players still think they can go first when assaulting. This was cleared up in the 3d edition FAQ, and the actual rules in 4th edition, and is clear if you have that 2nd printing of the SW codex.

Note that in both the 4th edition rules and 5th edition rules, it says power firsts and thunder hammers always strike at I1, regardless of special rules etc. This covers Stormcaller.


No Comment 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

agreed that power fists and thunder hammers always strike last.

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com <- My 40k Blog! BA Tactics & Strategies!
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: