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With all the excitement over the new IG rumors, I'm hoping for a Platoon-centric army with loads of Pie as the key themes behind the new list. This is my wish list for 2009.

+++ Codex: Imperial Guard +++

HQ
Regimental Command Squad
- Senior Officer (W2 or W3) + 5 Veterans
- Transport: Valkyrie, Command Salamander , or Chimera

Command Specialists - attach up to 1 per Command Squad
- Commissar - Ld10; Beastmen and Ogryns are Scoring
- Stormtrooper Officer - may take Stormtroopers as Troops; Squats are Scoring
- Light Tank Officer - may take Hellhounds in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks and/or Salamanders in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks
- Tank Officer - may take Leman Russes in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks and/or Demolishers in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks
- Artillery Officer - may take Basilisks in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks and/or Griffons in squadrons of 1-3 Tanks
- Fleet Officer - Orbital Bombardment (Barrage S10 AP2 Ordnance 5" Blast); target anywhere, but test vs Reserves
- Psyker - choose 1 ability


Enginseer
- Enginseer WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv3+ BP&PW
- 0-5 Servitors WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ LP&CCW
- Transport: Valkyrie or Chimera


Elite
Beastmen (10..20)
- Beastman WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv6+ Fleet, Furious Charge; LP&CCW
- PW sergeant
- may swap LP for Shotgun

Ogryns (3..10)
- WS4 BS2 S6 T5 W2 I3 A4 Ld8 Sv5+ FNP; Ripper Gun
- may swap Ripper Guns for Rending Blades
- PF / PW sergeant
- Transport: Chimera

Ratlings (5..10)
- Ratling WS2 BS4 S2 T2 W1 I5 A1 Ld8 Sv5+ Infiltrate; Cameoline & Sniper Rifle
- may swap Sniper Rifle for Lasgun & Spotter Gear

Squats (5..10)
- Squat WS4 BS4 S3 T4 W1 I3 A1 Ld9 Sv4+ Stubborn; Hellgun (S5 AP- Rapid-Fire)
- may have AV11 Artillery (2 Mole Mortars, 2 Rapiers, or else 2 Thudd Guns)
- Transport: Chimera

Stormtroopers (5..10)
- Stormtrooper WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ Deep Strike; Hellgun
- may swap Hellgun for Shotgun
- Transport: Valkyrie or Chimera


Troops
Imperial Guard Platoon - 2 FOC slots per Platoon; 1/2 KP per squad
Options: - fixed cost per Platoon
0-1 Wargear: Cameoline (+1 Cover), Carapace (Sv4+), Chem-Inhalers (Fearless), Cranial Block (FNP), Cyber Enhancement (Sv 6++)
0-1 Equipment: Grav Chutes (Deep Strike), Mechanized (Chimeras), Stealth Gear (Infiltrate, Scout),
0-1 Doctrine: Light (Move through Cover), Sharpshooters (BS4 but all shoot as Heavy 1),

1 Platoon Command Squad (6)
- 1 Jr. Officer + 5 Guardsmen

2-4 Infantry Squads (10)
- Guardsmen; 0-1 Heavy, 0-1 Special

0-1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
- 6 Guardsmen; 3 Specials

0-1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
- 6 Guardsmen; 3 Heavies

0-1 Hardened Veterans Squad (6..10)
- Veterans WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+
- 0-3 Specials; 0-1 Heavy if 10 models


Non-FOC Troops
Conscripts (10..20)
- Conscripts WS3 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Sv6+ LP&CCW
- Explosive Collars
- 0-2 Demo Charges, Flamethrowers


Transport
Chimera (AV12/12/10) = 45 pts
- Transport 12

Valkyrie (AV11/11/10)
- Transport 12


Fast
Hellhound
- Hellhound BS3 AV12/12/10;
- R24" S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Ignore Cover 5" Blast

Salamander
- Salamander BS3 AV12/12/10 Open-Topped, Fast
- Transport 6

Sentinel Squadron (1..3)
- Sentinel WS3 BS3 AV10/10/10 S6 Open-Topped, Walker
- Infiltrate, Scout

Rough Riders (5..10) Cavalry - LP&Lance
- Lance = PW; +2S in the first round of combat


Heavy
Leman Russ
- Leman Russ BS3 AV14/12/10
- may swap Battlecannon for twin "Exterminator" Autocannon

Leman Russ Demolisher
- Demolisher BS3 AV14/13/11
- may swap Demolisher Cannon for "Conquereror" R48" S7 AP4 Heavy 1 5" Blast

Basilisk
- Basilisk BS3 AV12/10/10
- may upgrade to Indirect (G48"-240")

Griffon
- Griffon BS3 AV12/10/10;
- Griffon Mortar G12-48" S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Ignore Cover Ordnance 5" Blast
- may upgrade to "Medusa" Seige Mortar (G12-36" S10 AP2 Ordnance)


Wargear
Explosive Collars - if fail Morale, remove d3 models and pass Morale
Spotter Gear - one Indirect Fire unit / squadron may use the spotter's LOS and BS

I'm trying to figure out why you'd swap a Demolisher cannon for a gakky Conquerer cannon?

BYE

The wishlist needs a little explanation as to why some of the things work the way that they do...

Command Squad is Officer + 5 Veterans to keep IG core units sized at 6 or 10 models. This makes unit sizes a bit more uniform, but most importantly, throws an extra warm body in the unit to try and keep the Officer alive.

Command Specialists are 1 per Command Squad, so an IG player can take 2 Regimental Commands and a couple Platoons to have up to 4 options active, but this comes at a price of having to consume a lot of points and FOC slots before being able to spend a few points on a Specialist. Each Specialist does a couple things to help justify their being taken. There are a lot of interesting potential interactions here to theme or tailor a force, but the requirement for a HQ slot or an IG Platoon limits their access.

Enginseer got bumped to HQ to relieve some pressure on the Elites. He probably should be non-FOC HQ...

Beastmen and Squats make a limited return to give a little bulk HtH capability, along with some tough (but expensive) anchor units.

Ogryns got the T5 and weapon options they've always needed. Also, I restore the CC option in a serious way, note that Rending Ogryns are in direct competition with Furious Beastmen, along with Rough Riders. These give players options, but not being Troops, won't ever overshadow the Platoon.

Ratlings got the Spotter option to interact with the various Barrages possible. This is tied to overall synergy concepts of units and sub-units supporting each other, while minimzing the ham-fistedness that GW previously used.

Storms are still "Elite", but can be taken as Troops, a la Inquisition.

Platoons are the bedrock of the Guard, and this Codex drives that point home by making them the only basic Troops choice available. Stormtroopers can still be taken via Regimental Command, but that now has an opportunity cost... But it's a solid Troops choice with the HWS, SWS, and Vets all folded under the Platoon structure. And with the Platoon options priced as a block, large Platoons get a big break on upgrade costs. Again, this is forcing the player to make design decisions on how the army should play, and balance between larger Platoons vs smaller Platoons.

Conscripts are available, but were restructured to be a lot simpler. Penal Legions with Explosive Collars and Human Bombs return, of course.

Valkyrie is only available as Dedicated Transport to keep things simple for now.

Salamander is added to encourage the FW models along with fast, fluid play.

Rough Riders simplify considerably. In theory, a player could take 3 of these, along with Beastmen & Ogryns as Elites supporting Stormtroopers, but they give up a lot of sexier, traditional options like Hellhounds, Ratling Spotters, and Squat Artillery to do so.

The Exterminator and Conqueror swaps are nods to FW, for variety's sake rather than sheer power. Though, I suppose they could stand to be finessed with Targeters for BS4...

The Griffon was an easy return, along with the FW Medusa.

And of course, most of the nasty firepower stuff is squadronable, but, if you take 3x3 Heavies, where are your points for Scoring Troops?

Interesting list, why increase the minimum range of the indirect earthshaker to 48?

Oh, that's simply to more clearly separate the Indirect Earthshaker from the Griffon / Medusa.

Right now, even on 4x6' boards, the minimum 36" range isn't sufficiently punitive to force any thought on whether to take the Indirect option. So I increased it to reduce the functional utility slightly.

Besides, the gun can still be fired directly.

I don't feel the Basilisk has any real room in normal 40k. Apoc with the huge boards maybe. I really wouldn't care if it wasn't in the next codex and replaced with something else.

i like the idea, though i still reckon that the basilisk range should be min 36", 48" is to much

I have to admit, I love the Penal Legion, but I am not sure on the need for Beast Men.

As for Ogyrns, I think they look pretty good but I would probably remove the Rending option, that might make them a bit too good. T5, FNP & a PF should be enough to make them able to fill their roll.

S5 ap- Hellguns honestly seem completely crazy too me.

Not sure why Platoons take up 2 troops on the FOC.
I hope they introduce the Platoon Drill where shooting through units of the same platoon does not give the target a cover save, I think IG *needs* that ability more than any holdover doctrine.

Why change the Hellhound to a blast? Why change it at all, I love the current rules. Now if you make a Hellhound on a LRBT chassis... now we are talking!

HBMC is right, Conqueror and Exterminator will need a reason to be taken. Need to be able to move and fire all their guns.

Heavy
Leman Russ
- Leman Russ BS3 AV14/12/10
- may swap Battlecannon for twin "Exterminator" Autocannon

Leman Russ Demolisher
- Demolisher BS3 AV14/13/11
- may swap Demolisher Cannon for "Conquereror" R48" S7 AP4 Heavy 1 5" Blast



Reason to trade 1) a russ for a exterminator? 2) a demolisher for a conqueror?

I can't see a reason to add 2x S7 ap 4 48" cannons.

a)Maybe a own Exterminator entry and changed sponson options? (should be a cheap Tank,usable if you ran out of pts)
could have: autocannon or lascannon sponsons.
b)Leman russ upgrade should be BS 4 Vanquisher (maybe the squad leader.)
Vanqhisher cannon: stabilized shot = no scatter, use BS 4 to hit. standard blast template and heavy?


Mortars must return

Why not Give LR's Machine spirit (or similar)?

Thanks for the comments & questions. Note that I will try to answer and explain, but please understand that this is my wish list, so some of the answers may not be what you were hoping for. Thanks, again.

Dexy wrote:I don't feel the Basilisk has any real room in normal 40k.

I'm OK with it, just that the IF option shouldn't be a no-brainer. If it were usually taken as direct-fire, it wouldn't be a big dea.
____

kormas wrote:i like the idea, though i still reckon that the basilisk range should be min 36", 48" is to much

With Griffon and Medusa being Indirect, the Basilisk needs to emphasize extreme long-range IF, so pushing the minimum up beyond the Griffon clarifies the roles of the various IF options.
____

BoxANT wrote:I love the Penal Legion, but I am not sure on the need for Beast Men.

As for Ogyrns, I think they look pretty good but I would probably remove the Rending option, that might make them a bit too good.

S5 ap- Hellguns honestly seem completely crazy too me.

Not sure why Platoons take up 2 troops on the FOC.

I hope they introduce the Platoon Drill

Why change the Hellhound to a blast?

if you make a Hellhound on a LRBT chassis...

Conqueror and Exterminator will need a reason to be taken.

Oh, like any of the abhumans, Beastmen aren't a "need", but they give a lot of unique character that helps better define the roles of human Platoons, Storms, and Conscripts.

Rending Ogryns "too good"? Even with Rending CCWs, they're going to be 20+ pts each with NO ranged ability whatsoever and needing to pay full price for a Chimera (or steal an even more expensive Valk) just to have a chance to get into HtH, in an army that has relatively limited HtH capability overall. When they get there, they will usually strike last in HtH. Besides, S6 means they'll usually wound anyways and Rending isn't so powerful anymore. Role-wise, they're like Terminators - hugely expensive single units in an army that depends more on numbers rather than sheer power. But what the Rending Ogryns do is to allow for a different play style.

We've been over the S5 AP- Hellguns elsewhere. For me, this is wanting to something that really explains those huge freakin' power-cabled backpacks they're all carrying, and S5 seems to be a decent way to do that. With S5 guns, at 10 pts/model, they might even be worth their points, capable of Deep Striking to actual good effect, as opposed to being a hugely overpriced Guardsman...

Platoons are 2 FOC slots because it helps force some actual competition for units within Troops. If Platoons are 1 FOC slot, then you can take 50+ wounds as several Scoring units, and never have to worry about Troops slots being a resource to worry about. At 2 FOC slots each, taking Conscripts or Storms as Troops starts to matter.

I'm OK with or without Platoon Drill. It's not so hard to arrange Platoon models so that the important models (Heavy & Special) have clear shots.

Hellhound becomes basic Blast because it's a lot simpler, rules-wise. The current rule adds complexity for the sake of complexity.

Hellhound on Leman Russ chassis would have to be Heavy, and that's not going to happen, as Heavy has plenty enough options already. I prefer to spread things around by moving the "light" elements to Fast.

Conqueror and Exterminator are there for completeness, for those who have the old or FW models, and for a bit of variety.
____

1hadhq wrote:Reason to trade 1) a russ for a exterminator? 2) a demolisher for a conqueror?

a)Maybe a own Exterminator entry and changed sponson options? (should be a cheap Tank,usable if you ran out of pts)
could have: autocannon or lascannon sponsons.

b)Leman russ upgrade should be BS 4 Vanquisher (maybe the squad leader.)
Vanqhisher cannon: stabilized shot = no scatter, use BS 4 to hit. standard blast template and heavy?

Mortars must return

As above, Exterminator & Conqueror are more for variety more than anything else. They are not as good, which explains why the standard Russ and Demolisher are the standard weapons options. They are there to show why the Battlecannon and Demolisher Cannon are the primary weapons fits, and can be thought of as field swaps to make use of a working hull. They are not intended to be tournament competitive at all. But if someone wants to field a Fluff-based force with these, then they can do so.

The Exterminator is a sub-entry to the basic Russ, so it doesn't get better sponsons or any of that. If you really want a cheap Tank, I have Salamanders and Hellhounds, along with Chimeras.

Vanquisher is attractive, but it doesn't fit well except as a HQ Command Tank. I'm somewhat undecided here, but if it's included, it will be deliberately overpriced by at least 50 pts because it's a HQ, and it'll be just basic BS4.

Mortars? I got Squat Mole Mortars, Platoon HWS Mortars, Griffon Mortars, and Medusa Seige Mortars. I think that's a pretty comprehensive set of options going forward.
____

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Why not Give LR's Machine spirit (or similar)?

Because PotMS is a SM ability. Also, it's a rules mess.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Squats (5..10)
- Squat WS4 BS4 S3 T4 W1 I3 A1 Ld9 Sv4+ Stubborn; Hellgun (S5 AP- Rapid-Fire)
- may have AV11 Artillery (2 Mole Mortars, 2 Rapiers, or else 2 Thudd Guns)
- Transport: Chimera

Stormtroopers (5..10)
- Stormtrooper WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ Deep Strike; Hellgun
- may swap Hellgun for Shotgun
- Transport: Valkyrie or Chimera

I'm curious as to what kind of difference in cost you see between these two units because as far as I can tell stormies are just slightly impaired squats with deep strike and the option to take a valk. That being said, what kind of cost difference would be required to make a player consider taking stormtroopers over squats as an elite choice? Now I could easily be mistaken as old IG and squats were out of my small gaming circle back in second ed. but are not thudd guns, rapiers, and mole mortars of a stationary weapon variety? If so, why worry about giving squats hellguns when players will view them as elite artillery. Thats just something that stuck out to me. Overall I like a lot of what you've shown in this wish list, particularly the amount of variety and character you put into the abhumans and conscripts.

@0079: The Storms & Squats are deliberately similar, but the difference is more in role and capability, not base cost. Your initial impressions bewteen the two are correct, and highlight how I see abhumans as still basically humans, but a bit more specialized.

Storms are far more mobile, with Deep Strike and Valkyrie options, and with a ST Officer, they become (Scoring) Troops. So you could take an all-Storm army in Valks without any Platoons or Conscripts, for example. Storms are capable of being a Scoring unit for Taking an Objective, with RF Hellguns (or Shotguns) for mobile double-tap <12".

Squats are designed as non-mobile with Artillery fire support to complement Storms. A player fielding a Storm army could model up-armored Storms as Squats, for example. Squats are never available as Troops, always as Elites. Squat Artillery would be somewhat up-costed to reflect their being available as Elites. This was my way of solving the Elite Artillery "problem", with a more-expensive, higher-capability crew. Squats have Hellguns to bump their price up and provide defensive 12-24" fire when needed.

Now, I know there are handsfuls of Squat players who want their kiddie tricyles and Exo-Armor, but thematically, those options just didn't fit into a Imperial human-based 5E Guard army list. They're much more of an Apocalypse kind of thing, and far more jokey / comic relief than anything else. I mean, little dudes riding tricycles?

I'm glad you like the wishlist - I have a big soft spot for the old 2E stuff, and would sorely like to see a lot of it return in the 5E book.

I was thinking about the Mechanized Chimera problem and how GW might solve it in the coming Codex.

Pretending for a moment that something like my wish list goes forward, I have Chimeras as an option for the following units:
- Regimental Command
- Enginseer w/ Servitors

- Ogryns
- Squats
- Stormtroopers

- Mechanized Platoons - no separate AF squads

Given that only a few units can buy individual Chimeras directly, it's OK to charge 45 or even 50 pts for them. Notionally, *each* Mech Platoon would have to outfit anywhere from 3 to 8 squads with Chimeras, plus the Regimental Command to be properly Fluffy. As I'm already planning to charge Platoon "doctrines" on a per-Platoon basis, so why can't Chimeras be this way, too?


What if Mechanized were handled like this:

Regimental Command
Transport:
- may purchase Chimera for +50 pts.
- may purchase Valkyrie for +100 pts.

Platoon
- If the Regimental Command has a Chimera, the entire Platoon may be Mechanized with Chimeras for +250 pts.


The balance point is just over 5 squads of Guardsmen - Each chimera costs:
- 3 Squads = 83 pts each (exorbitant!)
- 4 Squads = 63 pts each
- 5 Squads = 50 pts each (same as Command)
- 6 Squads = 42 pts each
- 7 Squads = 36 pts each
- 8 Squads = 32 pts each
Of course, to get to those cheap / free / bonus Chimeras, you're still buying more squads of little dudes, while committing to opening your wallet for spending $200+ on Chimeras. And Transports give up full KPs, so you're risking 6+ KPs in an Army chock full of KPs for the taking...

Technically, under 5E rules, you could buy Ogryn, Squat, or Stormie Chimeras and pass them off to Guardsmen to ride in. But really, the short-range Ogryns need Chimeras more than Guardsmen, so it's 12+ pt Squats (who sit and man Artillery) or 10+ pt Storms (who Deep Strike). Squats are somewhat redundant, as Guard would have plenty of stand-and-shoot for less cost, while T3 Sv4+ Storms (even with S5 Hellguns) are way overcosted relative to 4-5 pt Guardsmen.

What do you all think?

Weapon configs for chimeras in platoons are paid extra or have they all the same?
Inividual chimeras and platoon chimeras are dedicated transports then and have the same options and if so which?

why not

Regimental Command
Transport:
- may purchase Chimera for +50 pts.
- may purchase Valkyrie for +100 pts.

Platoon
- If the Regimental Command has a Chimera, the entire Platoon may be Mechanized with Chimeras for +50 pts. per line squad.

@1qhadhq: Chimeras include hull & turret weapon, and each may swap as desired. All Chimeras are dedicated Transport, and may freely taxi per 5E rules. The platoon price simply covers the basic, so any upgrades would be per vehicle, at standard, per vehicle costs.

@Bill: That breaks the whole Platoon-based upgrade cost model and sets us back at square 1 where we are today, albeit at a lower price point. If we did this, the per-Chimera cost would have to be reduced to something like 40 pts each instead of 50 pts.

so dropped "equipment : mechanized" then?

ok if we get a : chimera,hull mounted heavy bolter,turret mounted multilaser,smoke launchers
i think i'll take these full mech infantry at +250 and a few other tanks...

I would like to see an anihilator LRBT in the main codex, well I would have back when i could move and shoot my Sponsen H-bolters.

@ihadhq: Yup, you'd get AV12/12/10 Hull HB, Turret MultiLaser, Hull Lasguns (!), & Smoke on each of the vehicles.

If you wanted Extra Armour, that'd be +15 pts per tank, and PMHS / PMSB would be another +5-10 pts per tank. Dozer blade would also be additional. Track Guards would probably go away as an option, like Purity Seals, because everybody likes the look, but nobody really likes to buy the effect.

Of course, to get best value of that 250 pts, you'll need to buy 8 squads of guardsmen at an average of around 75 pts/squad after weapon upgrades. So that's another 600 pts there, for 850 pts in Troops.

Then you've got probably 100 pts in HQ Command +50 for their Chimera = 150 in HQ, so total of 1000 pts just to start.

You still need a 2nd Troops, before you can take Platoon upgrades or add Tanks. So if you're playing 1500, those remaining 500 pts will go pretty fast.

Decisions, decisions...

I think 1 officer upgrade + stormtroopers + 1/2 hellhounds and the mech inf is ready.
Up to 10 light tanks are not too bad.

OK, that'd work just fine.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Griffon
- Griffon BS3 AV12/10/10;
- Griffon Mortar G12-48" S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Ignore Cover Ordnance 5" Blast
- may upgrade to "Medusa" Seige Mortar (G12-36" S10 AP2 Ordnance)

To me, the Medusa's defining characteristic is that it is a direct-fire weapon. It's terrible at it, which is acknowledged in canon. It doesn't really have any reason to exist, between the Basilisk and Thunderer in usefulness and overcosted compared to both. Turning it into a barrage weapon doesn't really make it that much more competitive.

Actually, I'd like to see Ogryns get Stubborn. They're not dim enough to be fearless, but sufficiently "out of it" to fight it out when smarter warriors would skedaddle.

@Aga: The Medusa is still a Mortar, so it should be Indirect. It's still not a great weapon, nor was it intended to be, just slightly more usable with Indirect as an optional fire mode.

Ogryns have FNP as their USR, so Stubborn went to the Squats.

I very much like the look of the list. I love the concept of the return of fluffy units, but I think its extremely wishful thinking to hope for squats, beastmen & ratlings.

still, awesome job. If the codex DID turn out like that, Id be the first in line to start collecting guard.

Don't forget the baked morale-boosting presence of the Leman Russ Turtle Pie!

@Jack:

Thanks for the comments. It's just a fun little wish list, so I know it hasn't got a snowball's chance of becoming real.

But if I guess right on even half of the changes, I'd be ecstatic over the new IG Codex.