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We all know zombies to be sloowwww , dumb, generally useless other then been
tough to kill ( in movies i mean )

To reflect that into game, wouldnt it better if they get some special rules like...

Movement: d6
WS: only hits on a 5+

and to reflect how they always seen so hard to kill.

maybe give them 2 wounds? ( since they still craw around even
with arms and legs missing... the D6 movement reflects this )

From a power gamer standpoint... "OH GOD 2W ZOMBIES!!!"

It's my understanding that WHFB zombies are a special breed of "Easy for anyone to kill" that tend to stay down. From the VC army book "Zombies are poor fighters, lacking any kind of coordination or strength, and their rotted bodies are easily hacked apart or crushed."

I'd imagine that, much like skeletons, zombies have some sort of magical "flesh" that suffers damage easily.

Yet, despite being laughably easy to kill, they cause fear.

I think S3 WS1 T3 I1 would be sufficient to reflect a zombie. Utterly unskilled in fighting (will need 5s to hit anything), but still just as likely to harm a foe as an average man with a knife/sword/whatever (once a zombie gets ahold of something, it's usually not pretty). No tougher to kill than an average man (while zombies are immune to pain, they don't hold together too well). There current special rule for pursuit is pretty stupid, it should be something along the lines of if they catch a fleeing unit or win an overrun, do not move them- they remain in place devouring the hapless victims (so they never pursue into a fresh combat). 5 pts seems about right for cost. An ability/banner that gives regen would also be fitting to reflect an improved version that doesn't stay down.

While we're at it, let's move ghouls back to skirmish. A 2A ranked troop competes too directly with skelies. This gives them a different role.

Necros also need some work. The standard format for wizards (lvl 1 upgrade to lvl 2) with a lord version back would be nice. Since when did powerful necromancers stop leading armies?

I think if they over run a unit they should roll 1 d6 for every model caught and on a roll of a 6 they may add an additional zombie to the unit to represent their infectious bite

jmurph wrote:
Necros also need some work. The standard format for wizards (lvl 1 upgrade to lvl 2) with a lord version back would be nice. Since when did powerful necromancers stop leading armies?

since GW released the new VC book and suggested that while it still happens, not with vampires as vamps like being in charge. Tthey also hinted that Necros leading undead might happen in the future, which i would like to see, not much effort either considering most of the figs are already there, kinda like what they do with 40k and marines. Anyway back OT, I think that zombies are fine as they are because if you changed ANYTHING about them you would have to sacrifice how easy they are to raise all over the place (then book of ahrkan them into somethings rear) wheras skellies are held and animated by magic zombies are mostly just brought back corpses so move under thier own vocation, hence rottong flesh n bone, hence squishy.

(I think I might be rambling now so i'm going to shut up)

edit: not all zombies (or undead for that matter) in films are hard to kill, sometimes its just sheer numbers, (dawn of the dead, shaun of the dead) or theyre badass but squishy (dusk til dawn)

Thats the thing. The most legendary Necromancers generally received tutelage from a Vampire.

And when they got uppity, things tended to go very south for them.

And Zombies should be rubbish. Sure, it might be comparatively trickier to put them down permanently, but considering they don't wear armour, don't try to defend themselves etc, it's very easy to stop one being a threat. Chop it's arms off and it's well and truly stuffed, hence the T (which is as much about the ability to fight on with fleshwounds as it is the effort to cause a telling blow) is bobbins, as it simulates the ease of getting multiple decent hits in as the Zombie just sort of stands there stinking the place up.

jmurph wrote:Yet, despite being laughably easy to kill, they cause fear.

That may or may not have something to do with all the dead flesh peeling off them.

The "hard to kill" part is reflected by the fact that you get d6+4 back with every successful invocation of nehek. The way they work now is fine. They can hold up scary units indefinitely with very few resources. Focus fire on them and they go down easily, though. I think that it fits the fluff.

are these zombies hugry or want more of themsevles?
1 d6 1-3-the victim dies, 4-6-the vitim turns into a zombie

lord of the ghosts wrote:are these zombies hugry or want more of themsevles?
1 d6 1-3-the victim dies, 4-6-the vitim turns into a zombie

Zombies in WHFB are raised from the dead by Necromancers and Vampires.

Sirius42 wrote:

jmurph wrote:
Necros also need some work. The standard format for wizards (lvl 1 upgrade to lvl 2) with a lord version back would be nice. Since when did powerful necromancers stop leading armies?

since GW released the new VC book and suggested that while it still happens, not with vampires as vamps like being in charge. Tthey also hinted that Necros leading undead might happen in the future, which i would like to see, not much effort either considering most of the figs are already there, kinda like what they do with 40k and marines.

And what happened to the Old World Liches? They all moved to Kehmri? Any necromancer could become a Liche if doing his dark art too long previously.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Thats the thing. The most legendary Necromancers generally received tutelage from a Vampire.

And when they got uppity, things tended to go very south for them.

Heinrich Kemmler and Dieter Helsnicht had not much dealings with Vampires. They are the greatest of their ilk. Heinrich Kemmler is one of the oldest WFB special characters too. He's been around since 2nd edition! Read Terror of the Lichemaster yesterday (campaign pack), now that is a nice little scenario pack! it even features a Skeleton Champion by the name of Miceal Jecsen, who leads a bunch of Zombies.

OT: Zombies did not change a lot over time, they were and are rubbish, and that's how they should be. They are decaying corpses rather than infected mutants.

Im horribly confused how this thread is still alive
(perhaps this thread is a zombie too hmm.... )

Cheese Elemental wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:are these zombies hugry or want more of themsevles?
1 d6 1-3-the victim dies, 4-6-the vitim turns into a zombie

Zombies in WHFB are raised from the dead by Necromancers and Vampires.

Nevermind then. I just looked at the topic, and it was WHFB, I don't play that.

I play a VC army focused entirely around zombies.
I don't mind their stats so much, I find that how easy they are to kill is offset by how easy they are to raise. I wouldn't mind if the slider was moved abit more into the "harder to kill" area, ofcourse at the cost of raising.
That is not what bothers me though. Out of all the things you 'could' have done with units of skeletons, zombies, ghouls, zombified dire wolves...this is it? Really? I mean, where's the fun, wacky special rules? Where's the unit upgrades? Where's zombie champions? Hell, where are zombie ogres or skeletons? Does that have no effect? The rules are fine and all that, I don't want "more 1337" zombies or ghouls with str 10. I just want cool units. Not decent stat representations.

Its just so horribly adequate that I get annoyed with it

As a result I'm trying to write up some friendly rules governing zombie ogres in zombie units (not really an ogre attacking people, he's more of a unit upgrade), zombie champions and bone giants in skeleton regiments (also an upgrade). Ofcourse I won't force anyone to play with the rules I make, but I'd say they are alot closer to the kind of options alot of VC players would like to see for the units.
Current VC book is, hilariously enough, too Vampire centric for my liking. (Here's hoping for a WHFB: Necromancers in the next decade! )

There used to be Wights and Wraiths, each of those could be used as champions for skelletons and zombies and had some nice special rules (Wights did d3 wounds, Wraiths were ethereal). I always liked those. Unfortunately, champions are just rank-and-file+1A now, and I guess GW won't be making exceptions for the undead.

I would do Roll a D6 Dice on the roll of a 6 the top half of the body comes back to life and continues to fight
Or
Make it an upgrade like 1-2 points for the rule ^

I would stick with the D6 movement but give them higher toughness, for a points increase of course.

They're only hard to kill if you don't go for the brain--but any champion or character worth her or his salt should know that, and be able to yell as much to his shivering, wide-eyed and shaky-handed comrades.

I like the idea of a zombiefied ogre in a big block of zombies for the look of the thing.