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HQ

Tyrant-121
2xTL Devourers, +1St, +1BS

6 Warriors-191
6xScything Talons, 5xDeathspitters, 1xBarbed Strangler, 6x+1St

Elite

6 Warriors-191
6xScything Talons, 5xDeathspitters, 1xBarbed Strangler, 6x+1St

Carnifex-113
+1BS, 2xTL Devourers

Carnifex-113
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Troops

20xHormagaunts-260
+1WS, +1St

12 Spinegaunts-96
W/out Number

12 Spinegaunts-96
W/out Number

20xDevourergaunts-200
+1St, Devourers

18xTermagaunts-108

6xRipper Swarms-72
+1BS, Spinefists

Carnifex-113
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons

Carnifex-162
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons, +1W, +1WS, +1I, +1St, Scythe Tail, Toxic Miasma

Carnifex-162
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons, +1W, +1WS, +1I, +1St, Scythe Tail, Toxic Miasma

Total:1998
Models:106
HQ:15.6%
Elites:20.9%
Troops:41.6%
Heavy Support:21.9%

So how comp friendly is this list and is it over the top? I'm curious since comp scores matter at this tournement what everyone thinks. Did i handicap myself a little? Does this list strike you like a fluffy swarm 'nids would field? Thanks guy

Your list last year was a lot more comp friendly...

Remember the guy that played MCs last year? People were mumbling and grumbling about his list... he won best general I think. Best general at the broadside bash is not really a prestigious award. Unless you managed it with a moderate comp score.

His claim to comp was that they were upgraded inefficiently, but the reality was that no one had enough firepower to handle that many MC wounds. And if that guy is reading this. Don't take it personally. Broadside is a casual tourney, but not everyone got the memo about how much of an impact comp would have in scoring. I think best overall was 3-2 to put it in perspective.

It being 5th edition, and nids not being a big powerhouse anymore may help your case... But you've still got 6 big guys in there. I like the mix of different troop types, but I think you might actually get another comp point per game if you ran 5 MCs.

And I wish i was going to go. It really sucks that Broadside Bash lands on Valentine's Day weekend. Talk about a TOUGH SELL! have fun and bring back batreps and pics!

Shep wrote:
And I wish i was going to go. It really sucks that Broadside Bash lands on Valentine's Day weekend. Talk about a TOUGH SELL! have fun and bring back batreps and pics!

Don't worry, I will!

Blackmort is back!

G

Actually i won best general with my orks last year. Though they had messed up the scores at the actual tournement and stated that I had 65 points when I had gone undefeated w/no nobs and only normal bikers. And if i remember right the guy that one overall only lost to me in game 4. It was the nurgle list right?

I actually looked forward to playing that guy cause i did have enough power to deal with that many big bugs

I know i got knocked by at least two players on both my soft scores, one due to a rockin arguement we had and the other because the game only went 4 turns (the first to kill 3+1/2 the total number of units mission). I was actually a bit upset by the soft scores sheer impact last year but hey, i still had 3 great opponents and 4 really good games so i can't complain Look forward to seeing you there Black!

Shep wrote:Your list last year was a lot more comp friendly...

Remember the guy that played MCs last year? People were mumbling and grumbling about his list... he won best general I think. Best general at the broadside bash is not really a prestigious award. Unless you managed it with a moderate comp score.

His claim to comp was that they were upgraded inefficiently, but the reality was that no one had enough firepower to handle that many MC wounds. And if that guy is reading this. Don't take it personally. Broadside is a casual tourney, but not everyone got the memo about how much of an impact comp would have in scoring. I think best overall was 3-2 to put it in perspective.

It being 5th edition, and nids not being a big powerhouse anymore may help your case... But you've still got 6 big guys in there. I like the mix of different troop types, but I think you might actually get another comp point per game if you ran 5 MCs.

Okay, no background on whatever this tournament you guys are raving about but maybe putting some up for the rest of us would be handy.

So lets look at the list itself and the so called over-the-top MC's that are packed in this list, because IMHO Shep, all you're seeing is 6 MC's and not actually looking closer.

6 MC's none of which has a Toughness above 6 nor a save below 3+. Straight Krak Missile's will kill these MC's fast. If it was any sort of power list the HS Carni's would have extended carapaces and so would the Tyrant. Throw in the fact that He could easily have replaced 6 warriors with a 2nd Tyrant, culled stuff from elsewhere and taken 6 tyrant Guard, given them and their tyrants Implant Attacks so he could actually deal with Nob Biker armies incredibly efficiently and bypassing the beardy wounds allocation rules that people in said armies abuse so and you have a fairly manageable Tyranid MC aspect.

The ratio's look good, more then 40% troops not too much variance in the rest of the selections.

ONLY 13 Synapse creatures needing to hold in line 82 Gaunts and this is where the list starts to get balanced, especially when those Warriors can be picked off by bolters, pulse rifles and the like due to a lack of extended carapace. 24 T4 5+ sv wounds and 4 T6 3+ sv wounds and half the army is in disarray and you only really need to now concentrate on those MC's you are ranting about being too powerful.

Reliable anti-tank power comes into play only in combat as all those strength 8 barbed Stranglers will scatter with the BS 2 the carni's are packing. This means that a canny opponent, even in a casual tournament, will be able to play their cards right and save that LR or 3 from the MC's who are approaching in combat.

The list is well planned out, something similar to what I usually field as far as an all shooty bug force (my force is anyways) and nicely balanced in terms of units and variety.

Hulksmash, I think the list is balanced, definitely not overpowered, and a nice change from the masss of Nidzilla lists that usually take to the field.

Auretious Taak.

My first browse of this forum to get a perspective on what the general persona is but i had to register as you were getting a lot of bad advice :\

Hulksmash wrote:
HQ

Tyrant-121
2xTL Devourers, +1St, +1BS
Give this guy 2 guard, sit them behind a fex going at the same speed as this group, tyrant gets the 4+ invuln thus giving you cheap hard to kill troop killing tyrant..

6 Warriors-191
6xScything Talons, 5xDeathspitters, 1xBarbed Strangler, 6x+1St
Good for tourny play where you may face ork/swarm armies.

Elite

6 Warriors-191
6xScything Talons, 5xDeathspitters, 1xBarbed Strangler, 6x+1St
Good for tourny play where you may face ork/swarm armies.

Carnifex-113
+1BS, 2xTL Devourers
Solid fex, imo another one of these needed due to your heavy fexes filling the role of the following fex

Carnifex-113
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
Would suggest another TL-Dev fex, reason above

Troops

20xHormagaunts-260
+1WS, +1St
If you come up against marines, esp. CSM the lack of init will be your end, drop the WS and pick up Init instead imo. These are a large point sink so you need a good plan to make the best use of these ones :(

12 Spinegaunts-96
W/out Number
Not sure why you pick 12, spinegaunts actually do very little damage wise in groups of under 20, is this for C&C missions? In which case a squad of 8 will do the job just as well, saving you 20pts.

12 Spinegaunts-96
W/out Number
Same as above

20xDevourergaunts-200
+1St, Devourers
Due to the requirement to upgrade Str these guys take a lot of easy-to-kill points. 40 shots, 4's to hit, str 3, rr wounds. Vs t4 targets you're looking at maybe 10 wounds average. Take spinegaunts (40 of them is same points) and you get roughly 10 wounds per shooting phase still. Only differences are dev shoot 6" further, but spinegaunts are far better for the cc charge straight after and take twice as much killing to reduce their effectiveness.

18xTermagaunts-108
Good general purpose units

6xRipper Swarms-72
+1BS, Spinefists
Not a complete fan of these but you may have a plan, sit them infront of some gaunts?

Carnifex-113
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons
The pie man is good

Carnifex-162
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons, +1W, +1WS, +1I, +1St, Scythe Tail, Toxic Miasma
These guys are obviously gearing towards CC, instead of the 1 extra wound maybe the 1 extra toughness? Makes them immune to str3 shots/cc attacks which is a large group of units in the game.

Carnifex-162
Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons, +1W, +1WS, +1I, +1St, Scythe Tail, Toxic Miasma
Possibly same as above?

Total:1998
Models:106
HQ:15.6%
Elites:20.9%
Troops:41.6%
Heavy Support:21.9%

So how comp friendly is this list and is it over the top? I'm curious since comp scores matter at this tournement what everyone thinks. Did i handicap myself a little? Does this list strike you like a fluffy swarm 'nids would field? Thanks guy

Thats just my perspective, you have a lot of easily killable troops to make people feel good ... until the mc's get close. Keep the cover saves maxed out with your gaunt lines and you wont have to worry about AP anything

Drop the cheap Strangler Carnifex for a pair of Biovores with Bio-acid mines. That way you can template some Marines to death a little easier. Since they won't really be pinned easily the extra Strangler won't be as helpful as a barrage of AP 3 templates.

Thanks Aretious, those were almost exactly my thought when i put this list together. The only difference i really considered was that instead of the dakka fex to take another tyrant equipped just like the first to deepen my synapse. I figured this would actually hurt me comp wise so i left it out. The upgrades are minimal on the carnies because personally i don't feel like they need that much extra.

Anim: If i took guard i'd have to find 90 points somewhere generally meaning i'd have to take them out of troops which would hurt comp as i barely clear 40% (one my personal guidelines even before 5th edition). Beside with the warriors most of my big bugs actually have a 4+ cover save so i'm not as worried about needing the coverage. As for the +1T instead of +1W i've found that the extra wound has made the difference far more than i think the toughness would. You advise is good and actually close to inline in how i play but i think the differences are just in our style of play.

mattlov: I refuse to use biovores for the simple reason that if the shot doesn't land on an enemy unit and explode the turn it's fired i just handed the opponent a KP since it has a wound and is a seperate unit now. Besides, against marines i've got more than enough shots to cause them to fail armor saves.

Hulksmash wrote:Thanks Aretious, those were almost exactly my thought when i put this list together. The only difference i really considered was that instead of the dakka fex to take another tyrant equipped just like the first to deepen my synapse. I figured this would actually hurt me comp wise so i left it out. The upgrades are minimal on the carnies because personally i don't feel like they need that much extra.

It might, it might not. It's 2,000pts, the extra Synapse would be damned useful and if not deemed acceptable that's a load of crap IMHO.

mattlov: I refuse to use biovores for the simple reason that if the shot doesn't land on an enemy unit and explode the turn it's fired i just handed the opponent a KP since it has a wound and is a seperate unit now. Besides, against marines i've got more than enough shots to cause them to fail armor saves.

Has this been stated somewhere, in an errata or somewhere? Because that's a load of serious crap if it does, especially considering as a synapse creature you can blow every single one up in range, thus giving an opponent a whole cartload of KP's...it so shouldn't count with living ammunition unless it's a spore mine cluster brought as a FA choice...I'd love to know an official ruling on this as it seems absurd as who'd take Biovores?

Anim wrote:20xDevourergaunts-200
+1St, Devourers
Due to the requirement to upgrade Str these guys take a lot of easy-to-kill points. 40 shots, 4's to hit, str 3, rr wounds. Vs t4 targets you're looking at maybe 10 wounds average. Take spinegaunts (40 of them is same points) and you get roughly 10 wounds per shooting phase still. Only differences are dev shoot 6" further, but spinegaunts are far better for the cc charge straight after and take twice as much killing to reduce their effectiveness.

The spine gaunts are better for the charge? That's a load of crap, not all of them are getting uinto striking range whereas the Devourer gaunts will be in range with the whole unit and the devourer gaunts are a healthy strength 4 as opposed to strength 3 spinegaunts.

Additionally you make light of the fact that the devourers are 18" range not 12", it's only 6"? Only 6" for 40 strength 3 shots re-rolling to wound rolls. You have a mobile sniper unit here that can stay out of charge range of a unit of Orks who can't fleet and thus charge you, you get 2 turns of shooting and the initiative to then charge that unit where as the spinegaunts get one turn of shooting and a charge which they can't handle and are overwhelmed with.

Lets do the maths as a sum without any real formula: 40 spine gaunts str 3 hit on 4's re-roll failed hits - 30 hits, wound on 5's 10 wounds, 10 dead orks. Charge, be kind 40 get in range, 80 attacks 40 hits 14 wounds, 3 save, 11 wounds. Total wounds in 1 turn = 21 wounds.

Devourer Gaunts (Sniper Gaunts!) - 40 shots, str 3, hit on 4's re-roll wounds - 20 hit, 15 wound. 12 dead Orks. Combat - 20 charge, 40 attacks, 20 hit, 10 wound, 8 dead orks. Total wounds in 1 Turn = 23 wounds. 2 more wounds then your vaunted 40 Spinegaunts. Now, throw in that extra turn of shooting I was talking about and suddenly you're causing 12 more dead orks, that's a total over 2 turns of sniping and then combat of 35 dead orks.

The Devourer Gaunts are Superior to the Spine Gaunts.

Nuff said, keep the Devourer Gaunts, not enough people use them.

Auretious Taak.

Not sure how you do maths but i do mine right :( devourers will only be Str3, getting 15 wounds with 20 hits needing 5's is a bit much.

So lets look at it properly.

20 hits, 7 wound (being nice), on the reroll we bump up the wounds to 11 total, then armour saves brings you to ~8 kills (again, generous). The real reason i suggested the more numerous cheaper gaunts is because the next time your opponent shoots he's killing an awful lot of firepower per hit on your squad. For crippling your firepower they will have to kill at least 1.5 spinegaunts, more likely 2, per single devilgaunt. Your 6+ save isnt going to do anything to reduce those losses and with T3 most things are wounding on a 3 these days. At 10 points per model for something that dies so easily and barely does anything to orks let alone meq's you'd be better off with TS Horm's, no really.


Anyway, back to the real matter at hand. Hulksmash, even one guard can do the job if done properly. The points come straight out of your heavy section, those beefed up fexs arent going to be using their guns except in rare circumstances. Theyre geared up completely for cc so when are they not going to run? If you're close enough to charge a unit you have to shoot them with the strangler, kill a few models and they'll be taking the ones closest to the fex so he cant charge them. Basically, having a dedicated melee fex with an expensive gun really isnt going to work :(

Auretious Taak wrote:

Okay, no background on whatever this tournament you guys are raving about but maybe putting some up for the rest of us would be handy.

So lets look at the list itself and the so called over-the-top MC's that are packed in this list, because IMHO Shep, all you're seeing is 6 MC's and not actually looking closer.


Auretious Taak.

All that is totally fair to say A.T. But the Broadside is tricky business. Last year, you got a score between 1 and 5 from the TO and then again from your opponent in each game. Big wins were worth 12, ties 7 and losses 5 (IIRC).

If you got a big win with a '1' comp. And I tied with a '5' comp, I was only one point behind you. If you tied with a '1' and I lost with a '5', well then i just passed you in overall points (not counting soft scores). The extra batch of comp points by the TO just made it impossible to just come in with a WAAC list and do anything.

I admit that I really just glanced at his composition, but that is exactly what everyone is going to do that judges your comp at the bash. It's not like the upgraded fexes use a different model. I took a big hit for running 2x monoliths. Even though I thinned my list down by running some immortals and some destroyers, rather than dedicating to one or the other (4th edition, 2,000 points) the difference between getting a 3 from everyone versus getting a 4 from everyone comes just short of making one of your losses a win. its is an intentionally harsh comp system, which is a fun and challenging change of pace for most people. But it takes a little bit more psychology to game it.

The other guy that went 5-0 with nids had the same exact rationale that you mentioned. It fell on deaf ears.

I was the other guy to beat that Nurgle player Hulkster... he was a great guy with a great looking army, and he 'gamed' the broadside system superbly. No lash, and sacred numbers for an army that was essentially all plague marines and vindicators. Missing a few "power" units, but bulked up on the less noticeable but strong units. Good paint job and good sport.


Alright Allan! I'm gonna be bugging you for batreps on monday morning! Bring that camera of yours too

Awesome Shep. Yeah he was one of my best games and he played an excellent comp friendly list that was actually quite hard beneath the veneer

As for my list it does have a ton of small bugs and warriors, something you don't generally see in a Nidzilla list as well as no flying tyrant or guard. I'm hoping that will help.

Yeah the points for last year i think were win-15, tie-10, loss-7. And I noticed that my orks to a major hit to comp because i fielded Wazdakka so i could run my biker's as troops (played evil suns before the new dex). I think the main thing is i've never been hammered so bad for comp on a toned down list and that took me by surprise. Oh well, i'll take my camera and post some bat reps too so that everyone knows how it went!