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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Ok looking through the codex last night I noticed something that is more poor wording on GWs part.

"Fire Points: Five models may fire from the Chimera's top hatch. In reality, several are firing from the fixed lasguns emplacements along each flank, but for simplicity we assume all shots are to be taken from the hatch."

Don't think I need to state the problem I have with this wording, as I believe you will find it. Though these questions need to be answered. Do all guys inside fire the lasguns? If I have a vet squad inside can I fire 3 meltas out the top and then 2 lasguns? How many get to use their own weapons vs the lasguns?

5k and growing
4k 
   
Made in us
Ruthless Rafkin






Glen Burnie, MD

You can have vets fire three meltas, and then two lasguns.



-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I would agrue this because several means more then two by definition and it does say several are firing the lasguns.

EDIT: The problem I have is that where it reads "In reality...." this part can be read as fluff instead of part of the rule. I believe it is a 3 lasgun to 2 special ratio but there are no numbers that say that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/04/14 16:39:29


5k and growing
4k 
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







No, by the rules you can fire your 5 vets with plasma guns out the hatch.

The fluff about the lasguns is referring to when you fire 5 guardsmen out the hatch.

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Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Gwar! wrote:No, by the rules you can fire your 5 vets with plasma guns out the hatch.

The fluff about the lasguns is referring to when you fire 5 guardsmen out the hatch.


Ayup.

Extending the fluff, veterans (or is it storm troopers?) are said to be able to maintain & even rebuild thier own weapons so by that extention it wouldnt be too far fetched to assume they could modify the lasgun gun placements to be refitted with thier own plasma weaponary.

When looking at the rule, please do not have issues over anything except the rules. Like people have said before this, the 'In reality..." sentence is just fluff-type explanation purely making it easier for players to visualise as this game isnt purely about the meta-game but also enjoying the fact that you can have hellhounds vomiting prometheum over hordes of flamable orks or batteries of lasguns laying waste to advancing demons. Etc etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/14 17:16:27


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Well considering the Rules are beyond reproach, lets tickle our fancy with a bit of Fluff nerdage...

Vets are not green newbies who barely know how to hold a gun (Aka Todays SAS/Delta Force). These guys have fought the most horrible nasties in the galaxy and SOMEHOW survived, I think they have learnt how to stagger their fire out of a bloody Chimera Hatch.

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
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Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






it's worth noting that you couldn't have a veteran with plasmagun fire a lasgun from the chimera on the grounds of the lasguns mounted on the side either, it's just 5 models firing from a top hatch.

Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers 
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Drunkspleen wrote:it's worth noting that you couldn't have a veteran with plasmagun fire a lasgun from the chimera on the grounds of the lasguns mounted on the side either, it's just 5 models firing from a top hatch.
Unless you are playing Magichammer 40k where the rules are made of marshmallows and ice cream!

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a heavy bolter from the fire point (lets assume the tank has remained stationary)?

Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a mortar from the fire point (of the chimea?)

A heavy weapons two is a single model hyrbid unit. So even though its replacing two guardsmen you only get one back (albeit with 2 wounds) so am I also correct to assume that these team will only take up 1/5 points?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Razerous wrote:Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a heavy bolter from the fire point (lets assume the tank has remained stationary)?

Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a mortar from the fire point (of the chimea?)

A heavy weapons two is a single model hyrbid unit. So even though its replacing two guardsmen you only get one back (albeit with 2 wounds) so am I also correct to assume that these team will only take up 1/5 points?
No, No and Yes.

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Lost Carcosa

Fun note. I dont recall reading anything that says it counts as open topped while firing from the top hatch anymore.


Standing in the light, I see only darkness.  
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Gwar! wrote:
Razerous wrote:Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a heavy bolter from the fire point (lets assume the tank has remained stationary)?

Is there anything stopping a guardsmen firing a mortar from the fire point (of the chimea?)

A heavy weapons two is a single model hyrbid unit. So even though its replacing two guardsmen you only get one back (albeit with 2 wounds) so am I also correct to assume that these team will only take up 1/5 points?
No, No and Yes.


Mmm..Outflanking Veteran squads.

Gunnery sgt harker (Whom is relentless with a h.bolter), full vet squad, heavy bolter, 3 meltas (Possibly plasma depending on heavy-support choices), chimera + 2heavy bolter + heavy stubber. When they outflank onto the field (with the help on an astropath), you fire 2 h.bolters + h.stubber + plas/melta/las weaponary. Then keep it stationary for two addition h.bolters (one at bs4, one @ bs3). It comes to 230ish points but its an automatous unit (past needing an astropath to work more effeciently) with some serious firepower.

Makes me a happy man

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







Marius Xerxes wrote:Fun note. I dont recall reading anything that says it counts as open topped while firing from the top hatch anymore.

Cause it doesnt A dev has realised that it was a stupid stupid rule and killed it with Most Holy Fire (on a related note, SoB/DH Chimeras still do count as Open Topped)

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol






The eye of terror.

I believe that Sisters rhinos note in their codex that if the passengers are wearing power armor it does not count as open topped. However, Witch Hunters Storm Troopers in rhinos will count as open topped if they fire out the hatch.

So here's the question about the chimera: does the turret block LoS for troopers trying to fire out a hatch? Since GW has basically simplified LoS to a "model's eye view" how do you determine it from a plane that is parallel to the plane of the tabletop?

Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right

New to the game and can't win? Read this.

 
   
Made in gb
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime







willydstyle wrote:So here's the question about the chimera: does the turret block LoS for troopers trying to fire out a hatch? Since GW has basically simplified LoS to a "model's eye view" how do you determine it from a plane that is parallel to the plane of the tabletop?
Yup it does Block LoS

Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
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Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Where does it say that?

If you put the model on the chimera like most people do it is seen over easily.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Buzzard's Knob

Don't care, my chimeras are gonna be used to swamp the lines with plague zombies, once they're already busy with the infiltrating mutants. (Apocalypse all the way!)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! 
   
Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






PanamaG wrote:Where does it say that?

If you put the model on the chimera like most people do it is seen over easily.


The rules don't tell you to put a model on top of the vehicle and use that to measure line of sight though, in a non open-topped vehicle you measure range and LOS "from the fire point itself" this means technically, you probably wouldn't be able to fire at anything that isn't as tall as the chimera. While I doubt people strictly enforce this you can hardly say "no I can shoot over the turret with ease when not following the rules" is a basis for the turret not blocking LOS.

And Gwar is correct in that even if you are firing from inside the vehicle it can still block your LOS, otherwhise you could fire from the fire point on the left side of the vehicle and have the shot travel back through the tank and out the other side, so long as you measured from the left side of the vehicle.

Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Mah Hizzy

I think that it could be taken differently because it does say from the "Hatch" now the hatch on rhinos is usually taken in my experience from where the one guy it coming out of that you can model. Not from the far back. Now it wouldnt make sense for all to do so but its how its been done from where I play. What I will probly do is measure from lasgun emplacements since thats what it says to do which can fire striaght and not be blocked by the turrent if angeled right. Thats just the way I see it and probly would work the best.

P.S. I will be running 3 meltas in 2 swuads and in another 2 flamers and a HF. I wanna do plasma but..... i just don't like my 22 point model getting iced cuz at best he has a 4+ I likeum cheap and reliable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/16 05:43:32


2000 
   
Made in au
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Wow, I've always seen the rhino's hatch for fire points purpose be the rear one, not the forward ones. I suppose I can see the argument, it's a hatch on top of the tank, therefore it's a top hatch, just not what I'm used to, if thats how you play it in your area obviously that's how you will keep playing it though.

It still prompts the problem that because you are meant to measure from the opening, not from a guy poking through it, you can't fire at anything at a greater than 180 degree hemisphere from the surface the fire point is located on, and in the case of top hatches this restricts downward angles.

Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers 
   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol






The eye of terror.

Usually people play the rhinos fire points as the hatch on top of the tank, not one of the access points (side and rear hatches).

I also think that most reasonable players will let you shoot at things that are lower than the hatch when firing from a rhino's or chimera's fire point...

Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right

New to the game and can't win? Read this.

 
   
 
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