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40KNobz11 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

Compared to other companies that do tabletop games yes its a bit more expensive, but the GW models are way nicer than any PP model and most other companies. Yes its a little more expensive to get into but so is a lot of things. If you enjoy playing (I DO) it shouldn't really matter, its just money after all, why not spend it on something you enjoy...... whats the point in having it then? If you have to save up a little to buy some nice stuff its all worth it to me!!


Its totally comparable to cars in the fact that both are hobbies that we do and enjoy. Maybe your other hobby isn't cars, MTG for example gets expensive if you really wanna get into it. So does lots of other things.

GW is no a *little* more expensive, I have literally bought a full infinity army and everything needed to play it for less than GW charges us Aussies for the 2 rulebooks required to play 40k.

Aesthetics wise I'll agree that 40k beats Warmachine, but that is just an opinion. If you look at technical detail GW is nothing special at all. Most plastic manufacturers are on par with them and most resins and metals blow GW plastics out of the water.

Now as for your points about paying it because you love the hobby and GW being comparable to cars, you're making a single, large, mistake there.
GW is not a hobby. It is part of a hobby only. Those of us that love the hobby can, and in my case at least do, spend thousands on our hobby without touching GW stuff. It is also why the car analogy fails, you can't compare one company in a hobby to another *whole* hobby.

 Grimtuff wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

My other hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard makes GW's prices seem like a pittance.

Am I doing this right?

Pretty much... Consider the most unlikely and expensive of hobbies and build your straw man to suit.

I tell you what, 40K is much cheaper than my hobby of hookers and blow - but much less rewarding too.

Granted, I had just replaced the coil overs on my "Initial D" goof off car (old AE86 I have been messing with for almost 20 years) and it only set me back $600 for a premium set of adjustable PB coil overs on all 4 corners. Think that is probably less than a 40K army with all the fixings. The last time I replaced them was in the late 1990s IIRC, so 15+ years worth and no Codex creep to invalidate my previous coil overs.

The same tends to go for my other hobbies (wood working, sculpting, computers, camping, boating...). Sure, I can spend more - and in fact often do...but I am still using a 20+ year old canoe when I want to go out for a paddle and when I want a new throttle body for one of my cars, I have dozens of choices. When I change out the differential on my truck, I will get another 100K miles out of it and it is a useful thing that I can use for towing my boat or pulling stumps. If I invest in my miniature hobby - it is not a useful thing...unless they are metal, then I have more paper weights.

When I bought my band saw - it cost a good bit more than a good sized 40K army, but I have been using it for years now and it has allowed me to save significant amounts of money over buying furniture straight away - not to mention that it has probably paid for itself on little side jobs that I have done for people. Same goes for most my other woodworking tools (though I do admit - it hasn't quite paid for the shop to house them all...yet).

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

No, really, 'we all' don't.

You do - but by no means do you speak for 'all' of us.

And, if GW's own sales figures are to be believed, there is a diminishing percentage of 'we all' that do 'buy it'.

The Auld Grump

 jonolikespie wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

Compared to other companies that do tabletop games yes its a bit more expensive, but the GW models are way nicer than any PP model and most other companies. Yes its a little more expensive to get into but so is a lot of things. If you enjoy playing (I DO) it shouldn't really matter, its just money after all, why not spend it on something you enjoy...... whats the point in having it then? If you have to save up a little to buy some nice stuff its all worth it to me!!


Its totally comparable to cars in the fact that both are hobbies that we do and enjoy. Maybe your other hobby isn't cars, MTG for example gets expensive if you really wanna get into it. So does lots of other things.

GW is no a *little* more expensive, I have literally bought a full infinity army and everything needed to play it for less than GW charges us Aussies for the 2 rulebooks required to play 40k.

Aesthetics wise I'll agree that 40k beats Warmachine, but that is just an opinion. If you look at technical detail GW is nothing special at all. Most plastic manufacturers are on par with them and most resins and metals blow GW plastics out of the water.

Now as for your points about paying it because you love the hobby and GW being comparable to cars, you're making a single, large, mistake there.
GW is not a hobby. It is part of a hobby only. Those of us that love the hobby can, and in my case at least do, spend thousands on our hobby without touching GW stuff. It is also why the car analogy fails, you can't compare one company in a hobby to another *whole* hobby.

Infinity you also need at least 1/4 of the models, probably less. Its a way smaller scale than 40k, is it not? Theres why its cheaper

1 metal infinity model that is very finely detailed costs between $11 and $16 down here, depending on where you buy it. GW sell much less detailed plastic single minis for over $20 each here.

*Edit* I just checked, it was $11 to $23. Literally under half the price of a GW model.

40KNobz11 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

Compared to other companies that do tabletop games yes its a bit more expensive, but the GW models are way nicer than any PP model and most other companies. Yes its a little more expensive to get into but so is a lot of things. If you enjoy playing (I DO) it shouldn't really matter, its just money after all, why not spend it on something you enjoy...... whats the point in having it then? If you have to save up a little to buy some nice stuff its all worth it to me!!


Its totally comparable to cars in the fact that both are hobbies that we do and enjoy. Maybe your other hobby isn't cars, MTG for example gets expensive if you really wanna get into it. So does lots of other things.

The question is not just 'Is it too expensive?', but also 'Is it worth the money?' - two related, but separate questions.

Let us see... going by my personal opinion, only....
Are GW miniatures better than those for Infinity?... Nope! Are they Cheaper?... Nope!
Are they better than Reaper?... Nope! Are they cheaper?... Nope!
Are they better than Avatars of War?...? Nope! Are they cheaper?... Sometimes! (But not always... and I like the AoW dwarfs better than those of GW.)
Are they better than Mantic?... Mostly! Are they cheaper?... Hell no! (Mantic is much cheaper, and still wins - I still buy Mantic, and have not bought any GW in years. Plus, I really like the Mantic Undead....)
Are they better than Forge World?... Hell no! Are they cheaper?... ... ... Usually, but not always.... (Yes, I know that Forge World is a branch of GW - but they make better models, and are better value for money.)

So, in my opinion, GW is not giving value for money.

To continue your automobile analogy - in GW we are looking at a $100,000 Yugo, labeled as a Porsche... But it is still a Yugo.

It is not worth $100,000....

The Auld Grump

And you have to assemble and paint the Yugo yourself <_<

I just bought a Warzone starter box for £31 withe lots of figures, the rules are free online. Packs of the standard Brotherhood figures are five for £12 in Dark Sphere, they're all different sculpts and made in resin, there was almost no clean up. I don't know where they've hidden the mould lines on some figures, it's impressive.

What would a box of five resin figures cost from GW? More than £12 I wager, even if they were in plastic they would cost more. And I've looked at Finecast, it often looks a dog's dinner in the pack. So what's their excuse?

Ahg, are we doing the "GW is cheap because other hobbies are more expensive" route combined with "GW minis are priced just fine and they only look expensive because you need a lot of them"?


Look, even with armies that needs tons of models, you can get tons of miniatures with the same quality of GW's offerings without quality suffering. They literally charge four times as more if you compare it on a per model basis with plastics.

Just to quickly look at some Empire units to illustrate the lack of rhyme or reason. I wouldn't call my recommendations cheap, just far more competitive and reasonable.

Empire Crossbowmen/Handgunners: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $14.99
Actual Retail Price: $24.75

Empire Great Cannon/Mortar: 3x 20x20mm bases; Warmachine
Recommended Retail Price: $14.99
Actual Retail Price: $25.00

Empire Pistoliers/Outriders: 5x 20x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $29.00

Empire Flagellants: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $29.00

Empire Reiksguard Knights/Knightly Orders: 8x 20x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $24.99
Actual Retail Price: $35.00

Empire Greatswords: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $41.25

Empire Demigryph Knights: 3x 40x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $54.50

I'm particularly puzzled by Demigryph prices. They're only slightly larger than normal cavalry and you only get 3 of them. Why should the customer pay more for them than for 5 horsemen?

Because feth you, we're GW and we charge the feth we want, that's why. -GW Management

You know.. having just dropped about $150 on a Warjack, caster, and two units for my Khador army (although Iron Fang Pikemen, the most expensive infantry unit in the game), it's not so much the overall prices of GW's products, it's the amount you need to matter.

Sure some thing are just crazy like the Witch Elves, but overall what turns me off from bothering with 40k is just the fact that I need to buy multiples or, worse buy two boxes to make a single unit. That's the kind of stuff they need to get away from. If the game was a bit smaller scale, the price wouldn't be as bad. If you didn't outright get ripped off with things like bikes, assault units and the like, it would be pricey but not terrible.

That $150 would likely get me the same thing for 40k, give or take (Captain, a Dreadnought, a Tactical Squad and a bike squad?). But it's a nice addition to my Khador army while the same in 40k is minuscule; I can't do anything with that $150. Now granted I already have about another $150 worth of Khador that I'm adding to, but there's a disconnect in perception when I can buy four things and it represents a significant change to my force versus four things that are just there.

40KNobz11 wrote:

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

I love the hobby and I pay the prices. I'm just grateful that the hobby extends beyond GW I've got projects in progress for: Flames Of War, Malifaux, Infinity, Bolt Action, Ronin, Hail Caesar, Dystopian Wars, Incursion, and that's just the stuff with rules I've also got a few thousand dollars worth of stuff in boxes to paint some day (Including the Home Guard from Dad's Army, some Ammon mini's LE's, Kabuki, Kingdom Death, Scribor, Raging Heroes, and dozens more I can't name).

It's a great time to be in the hobby. It's a terrible time to be a GW player.

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
Just to quickly look at some Empire units to illustrate the lack of rhyme or reason. I wouldn't call my recommendations cheap, just far more competitive and reasonable.

Empire Crossbowmen/Handgunners: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $14.99
Actual Retail Price: $24.75

Empire Great Cannon/Mortar: 3x 20x20mm bases; Warmachine
Recommended Retail Price: $14.99
Actual Retail Price: $25.00

Empire Pistoliers/Outriders: 5x 20x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $29.00

Empire Flagellants: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $29.00

Empire Reiksguard Knights/Knightly Orders: 8x 20x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $24.99
Actual Retail Price: $35.00

Empire Greatswords: 10x 20x20mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $41.25

Empire Demigryph Knights: 3x 40x40mm bases
Recommended Retail Price: $19.99
Actual Retail Price: $54.50

I'm particularly puzzled by Demigryph prices. They're only slightly larger than normal cavalry and you only get 3 of them. Why should the customer pay more for them than for 5 horsemen?

If you are doing Empire, and do not care whether or not you are using official GW miniatures... the Perry historicals are your friend....

And since I play Kings of War these days... I could give a rat's arse about 'official' GW....

The Auld Grump

I'm not, I'm just using the "main" fantasy faction. Although I guess it could be warriors of chaos. One or the other.

$29.75 for a ork lobba in fine cast. I remember paying under $10 for that model when it was metal. 3x the price for the same sculpt.

 Chute82 wrote:
$29.75 for a ork lobba in fine cast. I remember paying under $10 for that model when it was metal. 3x the price for the same sculpt.

Same sculpt in a cheaper, inferior material even.

For each item? About tree fiddy.

 Grimtuff wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

My other hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard makes GW's prices seem like a pittance.

Am I doing this right?

Sounds like you need a real hobby. I clone A-list celebrities, bed them once, and then launch them into deep space. Each with a 2,000 point WFB army.

If GW doesn't stop raising their prices, I'm going to have to cut back to only once a week. Or use 3rd party, B-list TV stars. Eugh.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

My other hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard makes GW's prices seem like a pittance.

Am I doing this right?

Sounds like you need a real hobby. I clone A-list celebrities, bed them once, and then launch them into deep space. Each with a 2,000 point WFB army.

If GW doesn't stop raising their prices, I'm going to have to cut back to only once a week. Or use 3rd party, B-list TV stars. Eugh.

It probably would be a lot more feasible if you gave them each 2000 point kings of war armies.

 jonolikespie wrote:

It probably would be a lot more feasible if you gave them each 2000 point kings of war armies.

Pssh. Might as well drive a Kia and drink Bud Lite.

I suppose I could send a few out with the full Kingdom Death range in resin...but that just screams "try-hard".

But in reality no matter how much anyone complains, prices will not go down. They "seem" to be stable for the last 1.5 years or so. Lets hope they stay that way for a while.... Id rather pay these prices than higher one

Or just buy stuff off other people, let them pay the full price and you pay 25-40% of it

WayneTheGame wrote:
You know.. having just dropped about $150 on a Warjack, caster, and two units for my Khador army (although Iron Fang Pikemen, the most expensive infantry unit in the game), it's not so much the overall prices of GW's products, it's the amount you need to matter.

Sure some thing are just crazy like the Witch Elves, but overall what turns me off from bothering with 40k is just the fact that I need to buy multiples or, worse buy two boxes to make a single unit. That's the kind of stuff they need to get away from. If the game was a bit smaller scale, the price wouldn't be as bad. If you didn't outright get ripped off with things like bikes, assault units and the like, it would be pricey but not terrible.

For my Vampire Counts, I have 50 skeletons. That's 5 boxes. They make up 250pts, so the Core for a 1000pt army. If I want to stick to the Skeleton theme, for a 3000pt army, I need another 10 boxes, totalling 150 skeletons. For my Core only and not considering models that will be raised mid game.

This is absolutely one of the main problems with Games Workshop games. The other problem is still price. If I paid retail, that would be $600au. Again, for only my Core, and not considering models that will be raised mid game.

40KNobz11 wrote:
But in reality no matter how much anyone complains, prices will not go down. They "seem" to be stable for the last 1.5 years or so. Lets hope they stay that way for a while.... Id rather pay these prices than higher one

Or just buy stuff off other people, let them pay the full price and you pay 25-40% of it

They only SEEM stable because GW have stopped across the board price increases. The costs have been getting absurdly high on newly released products while the rest stays flat unless it is quietly reboxed.

And if GW listed to their fans maybe prices would go down and people would begin buying again.

Bane Knights... $85 for that pile of metal... WHEW. But I know I'm only gonna need one.

Or... MOAR BANEZ, GIMME THREE! AND eGORESHADE! BAENEZZZZ!

I think it still boils down to a company's ability to feed of its so called rep on the addicted ( that's us ).

What I mean us they began selling models for descent prices and for a while grew a huge fan base which then grew even bigger worldwide. Typical success story of how humble beginning turns into a giant profit making corp which loses sync with its customer not to mention the whole planet.

Company then stops showing interest and attempts to roll over a specific turnover every year by ripping off it's existing customers to compensate for the clever ones buying from elsewhere.

Make no mistake not many of us are willing to jump ship as a hobbyists some of us are glued to GW. Nothing else will do and as I mentioned before I believe there us a fine line between a gamer and a collector which brings in a classification I believe to be OCD. We won't acknowledge it but trust me we would be pushing to own these branded minis whatever the cost if there were no other alternative

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

Where did you find nice coilovers for $1300? I spent double that lol. GW could double prices and still be my cheap hobby by a long shot. As far as what their prices should be, whatever they can sell stuff at and see enough ROI to be worth it.

Toofast wrote:
As far as what their prices should be, whatever they can sell stuff at and see enough ROI to be worth it.

Which sales data has shown to be a lower price than their current one. GW is losing customers to other companies every year backed up by their financial reports and those of other tabletop companies.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Make no mistake not many of us are willing to jump ship as a hobbyists some of us are glued to GW. Nothing else will do and as I mentioned before I believe there us a fine line between a gamer and a collector which brings in a classification I believe to be OCD. We won't acknowledge it but trust me we would be pushing to own these branded minis whatever the cost if there were no other alternative

I'm a hobbyist, and classify myself more of a collector than a gamer. Yet I broke away from Games Workshop.

Stating that hobbyists and collectors stick to Games Workshop is kind of insulting. As a hobbyist and collector, there's far, far, far more out there than Games Workshop, and more than companies that make model lines with their games. There's so many miniature makers our there making models for no reason other than to be collectible that to stick to Games Workshops products only and call yourself a hobbyist and collector really only shows ignorance of the actual hobby. Games Workshop is not the hobby.

 Yonan wrote:

Toofast wrote:
As far as what their prices should be, whatever they can sell stuff at and see enough ROI to be worth it.

Which sales data has shown to be a lower price than their current one. GW is losing customers to other companies every year backed up by their financial reports and those of other tabletop companies.

From anecdotal evidence, the price is more often a result of people leaving than the cause. People leave because of crappy, unbalanced rules and ridiculous new releases (recent SW). The water leaking out of the bathtub exceeds the rate that the bathtub is filling up. GW then has to raise prices to compensate for less people buying their gak. Said price raises then cause a few more to leave, perpetuating the cycle and leading to the current death spiral of the company.