GW price increase June 1

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**The Division Of Joy**

jamesk1973 wrote:
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

I gleefully wait for the day that the inevitable collapse arrives.

Apologists have slowly shifted their arguments from, "they will bounce back and be better than ever!" to "GW is doing fine because despite trends they have not failed yet, and besides I still buy."

I actively discourage people from GW. not, in the manner that I just say, "Oh, that's expensive."

No.

I will walk over to the GW section of the local FLGS where Timmy is browsing 40K, pull mom to the side and give her the low down of what GW is really about.

Then I convince her to buy Timmy said some X-wing or Warmachine or infinity for the less than what would have been spent on GW and is an actual complete force that can be played with.

This is genuinely one of the most depressing and sad things I've read on here. That a game company can do this to a person is worrying.

A little tip. Other people like different things to you. You are the reason the gaming community gets painted as a group of weird introvert know alls. Let others enjoy something, get it all out on here if whatever you have going on up there needs an outlet.

And I've spent probably 600 pounds this year on hobby stuff. 20 of that was GW, and that was spray and a couple of paints, before the white knight comments come out.

I'll repeat. You are doing more damage to the hobby with your attitude than GW are with a price increase.

**agnosto**

Talys wrote:

Absolutely. I agree with what you say 100%. For anyone who feels that a model is just a chit from an old Avon Hill box game, I think 40k is a terrible hobby.

40k is a wonderful hobby for people who enjoy building beautiful armies, and for like-minded individuals to enjoy games (and each others' armies) together. It is a terrible hobby for someone who just wants to have counters to play for a game, because why go blow 1,000 hours figuring out whether to glue on a bolt pistols or power fists; why magnetize jetpacks and backpacks; why go through 200-piece kits? If modelling is a nuisance and just a requirement to game, 40k (and any other game with multipiece configurable models, or big complex models) should not be a serious consideration.

Also, a $50 model is really cheap if you plan to spend 50 hours on it and really enjoy that time -- even if the model blows chunks when you play it on the battlefield. It's damned expensive if you want to put it three together in 1 hour, spray paint them, play them once, and then decide to shelve them if because they're not as useful as you thought. Or, because the rules changed and they got nerfed

I think I shouldn't tell you about all of the bits that I throw in the trash because I just don't see a need for them, it might break your heart.

I will disagree that 40K isn't horrible for gamers, or at least shouldn't be, but the dividends pay off in spades for modelers. Other companies produce some truly astounding, quality work; I would probably never play Infinity simply because I'll never be able to paint the models at a high enough quality to do them justice.

I guess, I shouldn't have gotten off-track with the model count thing, someone else mentioned it and it made me curious, because it's all apples and different kinds of apples to me when looking at GW and other companies (except for Mantic...because most of their stuff is just...ick to me).

I think we understand each other pretty well so I'll leave off here... Miniwargaming is a big enough hobby that we can all find some enjoyment and whichever company floats your respective boat is all up to you.

**Leth**

I just want to be able to come to a forum and talk about the hobby I like without being insulted for liking the hobby I like. I don't go into privateer press threads talking about the inferiority of their models or the limited ability to play, so on and so forth. Then call their defenders white knights and insult them for liking their hobby. Meet it seems perfectly acceptable for everyone else to do that to those who play GW games

**Pacific**

I agree with you Leth, it's definitely out of order to make a mockery of what other people enjoy.

Although I don't think your profile pic probably helps in terms of responses you get. It looks like you're telling anyone that reads your comment to 'feth off' !

**Azreal13**

Leth wrote:
I just want to be able to come to a forum and talk about the hobby I like without being insulted for liking the hobby I like.

Who's been insulting you for liking wargaming? Gimme names and I'll sort them out!

Equally, anyone expressing a negative opinion, no matter how well expressed or supported by fact, frequently gets dismissed as a whiner or a hater. It really gets in the way of constructive discussion, but I'm afraid this is the internet and we'll just have to deal with it.

**Bull0**

jamesk1973 wrote:
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
I actively discourage people from GW. not, in the manner that I just say, "Oh, that's expensive."
No.
I will walk over to the GW section of the local FLGS where Timmy is browsing 40K, pull mom to the side and give her the low down of what GW is really about.
Then I convince her to buy Timmy said some X-wing or Warmachine or infinity for the less than what would have been spent on GW and is an actual complete force that can be played with.

You've convinced her to get the hell out of there and never go back, because a creepy guy wanted to talk her head off about the politics of wargaming. Her son will most likely get an Xbox game instead. Good job.

I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you've actually done this, but I'm still embarrassed for you that you think that's the "cool guy" thing to do.

In my brief and none-too-successful retail career I was taught that the best way to douse someone's enthusiasm is to force YOUR hobby on THEM - if you're into wargaming, regardless of manufacturer, you're actively turning people away from this hobby by being a nazi about which game/models/company it's OK or cool to be a fan of.

**kb_lock**

Prune prune prune...

**Torga_DW**

Bull0 wrote:You've convinced her to get the hell out of there and never go back, because a creepy guy wanted to talk her head off about the politics of wargaming. Her son will most likely get an Xbox game instead. Good job.

The politics of games workshop, not the politics of wargaming. If she's seriously looking for a hobby for her child, she might appreciate knowing about a particular company before it causes problems down the track.

Prune prune prune...

**Leth**

Depends, if she is in a games workshop store who the hell are you to sit in their store and talk bad about their product.

If it is a retailer with multiple lines, once again let them handle their business, unless you have something positive to say you are only hurting their ability to sell things. it's not your job.

Even if it's a game I don't play i will still say good things about it because I know that different people enjoy different things. You don't know what that person might enjoy or they are looking for, so to bad mouth one or the other is pretty arrogant. I will caution against certain armies if the kid is of a certain age. If Timmy is 10, mo slannesh chaos daemons for example, but that is as far as it goes.

**Accolade**

Prune prune prune...

**kb_lock**

Prune prune prune...

**H.B.M.C.**

Being politely insulting doesn't stop you from being insulting.

**motyak**

I've just bounced through the few posts and removed an issue that had arisen. On with the show!

**Herzlos**

Talys wrote:
@Mlaw - hey, if you're fed up with GW stuff and none of their new aesthetics appeal to you, **of course** you should do other things that you have more fun with. Nobody should talk down whichever hobby you choose, though it is perfectly civil to explain why it's not the right hobby for them. They should do so without denigrating your preference.

By the same token, people who are fed up with GW should do the courtesy of being civil to GW fans, and not saying or implying that they are sheep, rich people that blindly hand over money to a bad company, or that there aren't many of them left. Keep the insults against the hobbyists and players out of it, because even thou you are fed up, there are people who like GW models just because they like GW models, and they deserve the same courtesy as people who like infinity models just because there are cool chicks with guns!

I definitely agree with this. People like GW, or Foundry or whatever, people like collecting rocks, or vintage cigarette packets, or painting eggs. There's no reason to be rude to them for liking something we don't, it's a divisive enough hobby as it is.

**Jehan-reznor**

Herzlos wrote:
Talys wrote:
@Mlaw - hey, if you're fed up with GW stuff and none of their new aesthetics appeal to you, **of course** you should do other things that you have more fun with. Nobody should talk down whichever hobby you choose, though it is perfectly civil to explain why it's not the right hobby for them. They should do so without denigrating your preference.

By the same token, people who are fed up with GW should do the courtesy of being civil to GW fans, and not saying or implying that they are sheep, rich people that blindly hand over money to a bad company, or that there aren't many of them left. Keep the insults against the hobbyists and players out of it, because even thou you are fed up, there are people who like GW models just because they like GW models, and they deserve the same courtesy as people who like infinity models just because there are cool chicks with guns!

I definitely agree with this. People like GW, or Foundry or whatever, people like collecting rocks, or vintage cigarette packets, or painting eggs. There's no reason to be rude to them for liking something we don't, it's a divisive enough hobby as it is.

I agree totally, except rocks, i cannot stand people who collect rocks!

Anyway shouldn't GW's financial report come out soon? i wonder how the financial state is now and if the recent releases have boost their sales.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Jehan-reznor wrote:

Anyway shouldn't GW's financial report come out soon? i wonder how the financial state is now and if the recent releases have boost their sales.

GW's most anticipated release of the year? They should put a charge on downloads, they'd make a fortune.

**ImAGeek**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Jehan-reznor wrote:

Anyway shouldn't GW's financial report come out soon? i wonder how the financial state is now and if the recent releases have boost their sales.

GW's most anticipated release of the year? They should put a charge on downloads, they'd make a fortune.

Don't give them ideas.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Herzlos wrote:
Talys wrote:
@Mlaw - hey, if you're fed up with GW stuff and none of their new aesthetics appeal to you, **of course** you should do other things that you have more fun with. Nobody should talk down whichever hobby you choose, though it is perfectly civil to explain why it's not the right hobby for them. They should do so without denigrating your preference.

By the same token, people who are fed up with GW should do the courtesy of being civil to GW fans, and not saying or implying that they are sheep, rich people that blindly hand over money to a bad company, or that there aren't many of them left. Keep the insults against the hobbyists and players out of it, because even thou you are fed up, there are people who like GW models just because they like GW models, and they deserve the same courtesy as people who like infinity models just because there are cool chicks with guns!

I definitely agree with this. People like GW, or Foundry or whatever, people like collecting rocks, or vintage cigarette packets, or painting eggs. There's no reason to be rude to them for liking something we don't, it's a divisive enough hobby as it is.

well done, Talys, for being open to other people's opinions and not descending into insults.

This has been a very entertaining thread, we have had the predictable insults to people who have the gall to enjoy 40k but there have been some enjoyable variants, like the suggestions that all dakkadakka posters should sidle up to young children in shops and inform them of the evil behaviour of the dark GW Empire.

Personally, I've never bought GW tools apart from the (brilliant and competitive) saw, we use a fab store called Boyes that sells hobby items for a pittance.

**Arschbombe**

I was talking to the owner of one of our local FLGS about the price hike. He wasn't bothered by the price hike of the paint itself. He was irked by the increase in his cost that is more than the rise in the retail price so they're cutting into his margins. He is also irked about more things going to direct only. He's frustrated that his GW sales reps have no clout in Nottingham and so it's pointless to argue with them. He's considering just dropping all GW products. He knows he'll take a hit, but he's tired of GW trying to fix it's financial problems by slicing away at his margins.

**Kilkrazy**

I wonder how many independent games shops there are compared to GW retail outlets. I suspect in the UK there are more GW shops than indies, but in the USA it is probably more indies than GW. There are historical reasons for this (assuming it is actually true.)

I see GW's logic in running their own chain; vertical integration, forming communities around GW, demonstrating products and game rules, the assurance that rival games aren't being even mentioned let alone offered for sale. However the cost of running the retail outlets is about 75% of the whole company's turnover. Maybe they would be better off to rely more on indepedents like they used to.

It is a difficult circle to square, but I feel the move to one-man staffing in some ways achieves the worst of both worlds. The retail chain is still nearly as expensive to run as before, but GW have lost the advantages of long opening hours, easy demos of games and painting, etc.

**Herzlos**

From the 'find a stockist' thing at a quick glance it looks like even in the UK there are more independent stockists than GW stores. But a lot of them are a single rack in a toy/craft store rather than a FLGS.

I get the impression that GW stores are hugely outnumbered by FLGS stores in pretty much the rest of the world.

**Arschbombe**

I think the independents greatly outnumber the GW shops in the US and in many place are the only retail locations for GW products. The old white dwarf used to list all the stores so it would be easy enough to check.

GWs store placement seems odd and erratic to me. Some areas have a high density and then there are vast swathes of territory uncontaminated by a GW store.

I think the problem with the direct-only stuff and tussling over the margins, is that GW applies a one-size-fits-all strategy that works in the UK because of their retail chain dominance, but doesn't work well in the US. It's exacerbated by GW's emphasis on margins as a way to maintain profitability as the customer base shrinks.

**Azreal13**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Jehan-reznor wrote:

Anyway shouldn't GW's financial report come out soon? i wonder how the financial state is now and if the recent releases have boost their sales.

GW's most anticipated release of the year? They should put a charge on downloads, they'd make a fortune.

FYE is next week, annual report normally lands the latter part of July.

**Chute82**

Arschbombe wrote:
I was talking to the owner of one of our local FLGS about the price hike. He wasn't bothered by the price hike of the paint itself. He was irked by the increase in his cost that is more than the rise in the retail price so they're cutting into his margins. He is also irked about more things going to direct only. He's frustrated that his GW sales reps have no clout in Nottingham and so it's pointless to argue with them. He's considering just dropping all GW products. He knows he'll take a hit, but he's tired of GW trying to fix it's financial problems by slicing away at his margins.

My buddy who owns a shop gets frustrated with the GW rep quite often. What bothers him that there is a item one of his customers wants just to find out it went to direct only. I understand why at his shop he runs events for other games and does not do much for GW. If GW won't support him why should his shop return the favor? The shop has walls full of PP, xwing, dice master, DnD, pathfinder, magic, hero clix and board games with a very small section of GW models. The customers at the shop so little interest in supporting GW and I have never seen anybody at the store playing 40k or WHFB, there is about zero interest in the games. Warhammer Wendsday the store is packed with all 10 tables being played but on 40k Thursday its like a ghost town, then on Friday Magic the place is packed again. Why you ask? These other companies support their games, support running events and support independent stores.

**agnosto**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how many independent games shops there are compared to GW retail outlets. I suspect in the UK there are more GW shops than indies, but in the USA it is probably more indies than GW. There are historical reasons for this (assuming it is actually true.)

I see GW's logic in running their own chain; vertical integration, forming communities around GW, demonstrating products and game rules, the assurance that rival games aren't being even mentioned let alone offered for sale. However the cost of running the retail outlets is about 75% of the whole company's turnover. Maybe they would be better off to rely more on indepedents like they used to.

It is a difficult circle to square, but I feel the move to one-man staffing in some ways achieves the worst of both worlds. The retail chain is still nearly as expensive to run as before, but GW have lost the advantages of long opening hours, easy demos of games and painting, etc.

I would opine that they should not attempt to take a "one size fits all" approach to their corporate infrastructure. Their current model apparently works well in the UK but I would argue that it makes little sense in the US, Canada, and Australia due to the huge amount of ground to be covered. Armchair CEOing, I would close all storefronts in North America and create regional trade terms that would be attractive to FLGSs. They can still enforce a "no cross-region trading" policy but have a leaner corporate structure. It may be too late as they've poisoned the well with many large sellers of their product in the US though.

**Herzlos**

Plenty of UK independents seem sick of GW too or have dropped them entirely. One of the stores I visit regularly dropped GW about a year ago after it'd been whittled down to about 2ft of shelf space. They still do the RPG books though.

**NAVARRO**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how many independent games shops there are compared to GW retail outlets. I suspect in the UK there are more GW shops than indies, but in the USA it is probably more indies than GW. There are historical reasons for this (assuming it is actually true.)

I see GW's logic in running their own chain; vertical integration, forming communities around GW, demonstrating products and game rules, the assurance that rival games aren't being even mentioned let alone offered for sale. However the cost of running the retail outlets is about 75% of the whole company's turnover. Maybe they would be better off to rely more on indepedents like they used to.

It is a difficult circle to square, but I feel the move to one-man staffing in some ways achieves the worst of both worlds. The retail chain is still nearly as expensive to run as before, but GW have lost the advantages of long opening hours, easy demos of games and painting, etc.

I believe that is the main issue with GW and its pricing structure... If you go to a GW store you will only have GW paints/products and the price, even if high, is not in direct comparison with vallejos or P3 etc that you see in indies. That structure cost is 75%??? wow thats more than I imagined. So yeah no wonder they want to shift most to direct sales and make indies lives really hard.
May work on some european countries where GW exposure is quite significant but I see hard days ahead for places where the indie model is dominant.

I buy all kinds of paints for different reasons, GW was always about the brand, in the old days it was important to keep armies consistent ... with the change of some formulas and naming the brand diluted a bit too.

BTW thanks for getting topic back on track, I mean the " my choice is better than yours" debate is really annoying.

**Haight**

Unfortunate, but not unexpected either. I buy paints from all the major paint lines. GW is already expensive, but honestly, for the 3-5 paints i might buy a year, .25 cents isn't enough to raise my hackles.

The ADL is disconcerting though. That's an enormous price increase. I might end up ordering one before the jump (currently owning only one that i got in a trade), because for what it is, 30 bucks is barely justifiable. 38 passes the boundary of "Oh, that's quaint" land.

The realm of battle board... they're nice... but they've always been way over priced for what they are. I can make something 85% as nice for less than 50 bucks in material, 100% less skulls, and a weekends investiture of time. Pass.

**Kanluwen**

Haight wrote:

The ADL is disconcerting though. That's an enormous price increase. I might end up ordering one before the jump (currently owning only one that i got in a trade), because for what it is, 30 bucks is barely justifiable. 38 passes the boundary of "Oh, that's quaint" land.

It might be getting a sprue recut/shift to include the Icarus Lascannon and Comms Relay options that are currently only available in the Bastion kit.

The ADL isn't a spring chicken anymore, and that kind of a price jump is what we saw with the Tactical Marine box when it got changed to the new box.

The realm of battle board... they're nice... but they've always been way over priced for what they are. I can make something 85% as nice for less than 50 bucks in material, 100% less skulls, and a weekends investiture of time. Pass.

I don't think anyone has ever had any illusions about the ROB boards. Their only selling points(in my opinion) is that they're hard-plastic and store/transport fairly well.

**Azreal13**

The new Tac Squad was a massive $2.75 more than the old one when released, not quite the same as $8 on a $30 kit.