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While being extremely bored and reading my CSM Dex, I saw the little bit about Doombreed. It said he was one the earliest DP of Khorne and wherever he went, he brought war and bloodshed on an apocalyptic scale or something to that effect. It also said he hasn't been seen since Horus died fighting alongside him. So here goes:

Doombreed's Bloody Crusade - 100 pts + models

1 Daemon Prince w/Mark of Khorne (Doombreed)

1+ squads of Chosen Chaos Marines (One must be holding an Icon of Khorne in each squad)

Servants of Horus: [Some fluff bit about how those who fought alongside Horus all share a special kinship] Doombreed may join any squad of Chosen in this formation as though he were an independent character. In all other respects he is still treated as a Monstrous Creature.

Chosen of Khorne: All units in this formation lose the Infiltrate special rule, but gain Furious Charge.

Inspire Bloodshed: At the end of the turn player's Movement phase, any of their units within 18" of Doombreed must take a Leadership test. If a test is failed, that unit moves 6" towards the closest enemy unit during their next Shooting phase (ignore difficult terrain, still take Dangerous tests), and must try to Assault the closest enemy unit in the Assault phase. A friendly unit may choose to fail this test automatically.

And why all of this? Because Khorne needs a Lash too.

So why isn't Khorne's most ancient and powerful Daemon Prince a special character?

Because Doombreed didnt want to end up like Skarbrand

Sounds like a job for me!

Doombred, Daemon Prince of Khorne.
185 points
WS10 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I6 A6 Ld10 Sv3+

Wargear:
2 Close Combat Weapons (bonus already included in profile)
Mark of Khorne (bonus already included in profile)

Special Rules:
Eternal Warrior
5+ invuln save
Fearless

Servants of Horus: [Some fluff bit about how those who fought alongside Horus all share a special kinship] Doombreed may join any squad of Chosen in this formation as though he were an independent character. In all other respects he is still treated as a Monstrous Creature.

Chosen of Khorne: All units in this formation lose the Infiltrate special rule, but gain Furious Charge.

Inspire Bloodshed: At the end of the turn player's Movement phase, any of their units within 18" of Doombreed must take a Leadership test. If a test is failed, that unit moves 6" towards the closest enemy unit during their next Shooting phase (ignore difficult terrain, still take Dangerous tests), and must try to Assault the closest enemy unit in the Assault phase. A friendly unit may choose to fail this test automatically.

Pricing:
110 points DP
15 points for +3 WS, +1I
10 points for +1 Attack
10 points for MoK
15 points for Servents of Horus and Chosen of Khorne
20 points for Inspire bloodshed (same price of Lash, even though it is slightly less effective, khorne princes normally can't take lash)

Canonness Rory wrote:Sounds like a job for me!

Doombred, Daemon Prince of Khorne.
185 points
WS10 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I6 A6 Ld10 Sv3+

Wargear:
2 Close Combat Weapons (bonus already included in profile)
Mark of Khorne (bonus already included in profile)

Special Rules:
Eternal Warrior
5+ invuln save
Fearless

Servants of Horus: [Some fluff bit about how those who fought alongside Horus all share a special kinship] Doombreed may join any squad of Chosen in this formation as though he were an independent character. In all other respects he is still treated as a Monstrous Creature.

Chosen of Khorne: All units in this formation lose the Infiltrate special rule, but gain Furious Charge.

Inspire Bloodshed: At the end of the turn player's Movement phase, any of their units within 18" of Doombreed must take a Leadership test. If a test is failed, that unit moves 6" towards the closest enemy unit during their next Shooting phase (ignore difficult terrain, still take Dangerous tests), and must try to Assault the closest enemy unit in the Assault phase. A friendly unit may choose to fail this test automatically.

Pricing:
110 points DP
15 points for +3 WS, +1I
10 points for +1 Attack
10 points for MoK
15 points for Servents of Horus and Chosen of Khorne
20 points for Inspire Bloodshed (same price of Lash, even though it is slightly less effective, khorne princes normally can't take lash)

Not sure whether it's intentional or an oversight, but it seems that currently Doombreed would only have Furious Charge if he joined a unit. Surely he would be just as, well, furious regardless of whether or not he joins a unit of Chosen? Also regarding his stats, surely he would be more powerful than he is by that statline, being one of the oldest daemon princes in existence? Maybe up his S and T by 1 each. Inspire Bloodshed is a very nice ability and it adds flavor that such an ancient and powerful daemon of Khorne would cause a frenzy wherever he goes. I think maybe it would make sense to have it reduce Ld to 8, unless it would be lower anyway, because 8 is Khorne's number and surely Doombreed would be one of Khorne's most favored champions. With all these taken into account, he should get a boost to his cost. Possibly 230. Likely even more though, because you are essentially giving your entire army fleet AND potentially pulling opponents' shooting units towards your assault units. (And the smart list builder would use Doombreed in a pure assault army, with a minimal amount of shooting units.) It is definitely an amazing ability even without the Ld reduction, so Doombreed's points cost should reflect that. And I don't think the ability should be nerfed simply because it's just so flufftacular, and forces your opponent to be smart about tactics. It shouldn't cost TOO much though, because you're also potentially helping your opponent's assault units. This character vs a Green Tide or Nid Swarm army (or Nidzilla... sweet baby jesus, fleeting Carnifexes and Trygons!) would make for a truly epic match.

Another idea is to be able to use Doombreed as an HQ in a Daemon army. And instead of joining Chosen, he could join Bloodletters. His ability would be absolutely FANTASTIC in Daemons, because they deepstrike into play. To avoid being completely ridiculous though, it shouldn't work on units that just deepstruck that turn, including himself. That obliterates the main weakness of Chaos Daemons assault armies. Now that I think about it, the not working on deepstriking units should apply to every deepstriking unit. But it should affect Walkers, who don't have to take Ld, because usually they are either piloted by someone or have someone's soul in them. Maybe cause them to take an Ld test at 8 anyway? Another possible way to balance Inspire Bloodshed (cool name, but I'm not sure it sounds 'epic' enough for something so amazing) is to cause the unit to take wounds. Possibly something like Kharn, where if they fail the Ld and make it into combat that turn, they hit their own unit on any 1's to hit. It's incredibly fluffy, and it also creates a drawback to abusing the ability. Maybe if the ability is still too powerful, you could drop the 'choosing to fail' part, which removes the potential for abuse.


Wow I got excited there... Wall-of Text, much?

EDIT: Damnit, I was trying to quote the stats and post this in a different thread to avoid the necro... Well, whatever. It's no less valid/relevant than it was 8 months ago, and it's a good enough idea that I think it deserves necroing. I didn't want to risk annoying the mods but it's too late to go back now.

Doombreed needs to be better than a Bloodthirster.

He needs like WS10 BS10 S7 T7 W5 I8 A5 LD10 SV3+/4++


He's been alive for at least 30,000 years. Come on.

He does need to be better than a dp, but he's not a purebred daemon; he was still raised from a human body. So he doesn't really have to be stronger than a purebred upper-level daemon. Not that he can't be, but the better he is the more he'll cost to use and Inspire Bloodshed is already dangerously useful. (on a related note, it should ignore Fearless; this way he will also be affected, and it fits the fluff because it doesn't involve fear. Alternately he should have Fleet, because Inspire Bloodshed as it stands does not work on him, and his own units shouldn't be reaching combat before he does.) I think the ability he has shows his 'favoredness' quite nicely. As for stats, WS10 is a given, BS is irrelevant, S7 or 8 is good, Toughness doesn't necessarily improve that much over time, so T6 is fair, W5 or even W6 is good and represents getting stronger over time better than T, High I is more of a Slaaneshi thing, so I6 is perfectly fair, A needs to be at least 6, maybe even 8, Ld10 is a given, and Sv3+/5++ is perfectly reasonable.

Cheese Elemental wrote:So why isn't Khorne's most ancient and powerful Daemon Prince a special character?

Doombreed is supposed to be more powerful than ALL of the Deamon primarchs, he needs stats, not just a MOK DP

well we don't want to make him too powerful; you seem to be trying to have him cost upwards of 500 points... Remember, I at least am working off the fluff in the current codex; I started 40k in mid-late 4th edition.

Well even with that he is vastly more powerful than a normal DP. I think his stats for this apoc sheet should be:

Doobmbreed:
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
8 5 8 6 5 7 6 10 2+/4++


buffed up stats on the normal DP, 2+ for years of years of wear and ear on his flesh has made it litte more than think chitin. 4++ save for being one of the blessed of Khorne

he should also have wings

he should also have any MOK unit gain fleet within 6"

Maybe a LD reductor for enemies within 6" also

i think for this Apoc sheet he should have the choice of joining a unit, scary ahha. Maybe Terminators? maybe zerks as well? hell how about ANY CSM unit with the MOK he can join, or Khorne deamons as well.


his total APOC rules idk yet, maybe 300 pt?

model itself i think should be 300-350

Vladsimpaler wrote:Doombreed needs to be better than a Bloodthirster.

He needs like WS10 BS10 S7 T7 W5 I8 A5 LD10 SV3+/4++


He's been alive for at least 30,000 years. Come on.

+1

Despite referencing it I didn't expect this to actually come back. If we're looking at the 30,000 year element, CSM are supposed to be older than regular SM on average and their stats are barely different. I think Doombreed should be less about KHORNEBLOODSKULLZZZ and focus more on his past accomplishments and flavor. If you want an uber thirster we already have Anggrath.

Edit:

...which could make for an even cooler formation actually! Just say An'ggrath can counts as for Doombreed at player's discretion.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Despite referencing it I didn't expect this to actually come back. If we're looking at the 30,000 year element, CSM are supposed to be older than regular SM on average and their stats are barely different. I think Doombreed should be less about KHORNEBLOODSKULLZZZ and focus more on his past accomplishments and flavor. If you want an uber thirster we already have Anggrath.

Edit:

...which could make for an even cooler formation actually! Just say An'ggrath can counts as for Doombreed at player's discretion.

Thats not a bad idea!

i agree

I still like the original idea, with Inspire Bloodshed. There's no reason to take the easy way out and use a pre-existing character's stats/rules when we could make something new.

meh lets use his old stats!

He needs rage and a rule to give all units plus one attack that are atleast 6" away. I mean the thing should be slowed stat wise imo.