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Made in fi
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Finland

I'm thinking of starting a new fluffy army sometime in the future. I really enjoy the Iyandens fluff and the Wraithguard -lord models, so I want to make a more or less full army based around wraithguards and wraithlords.

However, even if i dont need to have it super competative, I'd like to have an army that I can sometimes win with

So how should one use a list that is based around this?

HQ:
Farseer or Yriel


Troops:
10x Wraithguard w/ Spiritseer
10x Wraithguard w/ Spiritseer


Heavy Support:
1x Wraithlord
1x Wraithlord
1x Wraithlord


Is it viable to use wraithguard as the only troop choices? I could use pathfinders, as they would fit with the fluff, but imo they dont fit with the theme.
How should one use floot slogging wraithguard, with their short range?

What should I do with the wraithlords? What upgrades would fit best in this theme? (I'm thinking of giving each wraithlord a wraithsword, because imo they look great )

Overall, is it possible to give others a run for their money with a list based around wraithguards and wraithlords?

I'd use around 1500p in the army.

I'm not really asking what models to take, because I want extremely wraith heavy lists. Just if it is viable to play with these lists, and if so, what tactic should I use.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/10/05 18:57:31





 
   
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Made in se
Brainy Zoanthrope




Sweden

Iyanden-themed armies can certainly be competative. Personally I prefer to run the Wraithguard behind a wall of MCs, using Swordlords with dual flamers and an Avatar. I also usually run a mixed-mech approach with aspect squads in serpents to support the wraithwall.

A Farseer is almost a must in Wraith-armies as Fortune is a very important ingredient in this type of list, as it keeps your 35pts models alive longer. In my more competative lists I run Eldrad for the double Fortune, as a fortuned Avatar is nothing to laugh at.

As you say, Wraithguard have a very short range, and should just run towards the enemy ASAP, preferrably supported by a bunch of Wraithlords and an Avatar. The Wraithlords doesn´t really need any ranged weapons apart from the flamers - just give them the Wraithblade and run them towards the enemy with the Wraithguard. If you do want them to carry heavy weapons though, I recommend you equip them all with EML/Brightlance, as one BL usually isn´t enough to threaten enemy armour seriously.

Secondary troop choices could be either Rangers or Reserved Guardian Jetbikes squads. I personally prefer the Jetbikes for their mobility, however in an all-footsloggers list, as you seem intent on building, Rangers might be a better choice.

Also, if you are not taking serpents with aspect troops, you might want to consider a unit of Striking Scorpions to support the Wraithguard in combat, although 3 Lords and an Avatar Should be able to handle most of these threats.

The goal of the mixed-mech Wraith army is to deny the enemy any soft targets, so the majority of their weapons won´t be able to hurt you. You will only present targets with at least T6 or Wave Serpents with AV12 and the special Force Field rule. That is a tough nut to crack for most armies.

Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees and Fire Dragons always are good choices to put in serpents for supporting the WG. Avengers easily manage hordes (which the WLs flamers do just as well, but some redundancy doesn´t hurt you) and can put some wounds on enemy MCs and even MEQ & TEQ through rate of fire. Banshees are good for threatening enemy heavy infantry and can also act as counter assault for the wraithguard. I usually find that the WLs and Avatar can handle that part. And, the most important aspect to include; the Fire Dragons! with no real ranged AT, you will want to have these guys blowing up Land Raiders and the like before the nasty CC-squad that resides within gets to tear your WG apart. If it´s one thing that Wraith armies hate, it is Assault Terminators assaulting out of a Land Raider, as they have approximately 22" charge radius, so they can sit outside the effective threat range of the WG, which is 18". However, always, always give the Dragons a Serpent. It makes their job alot easier and gives the enemy another tough target to split his heavy fire on.

There, I hope it wasn´t too much of a wall of text and that you find it helpful

 
   
Made in us
Storming Storm Guardian






The core of my Iyanden army is two squads of twenty wraith guard, and three wraith lords. If you add anything make it close combat support, as while the guard can take it, they have a hard time inflicting the large number of wounds to MEQ. As for tactics, I make a wall and march fortune/concealed WG units straight at most opponent's strong points. Usually (for me) about 75% makes it, and along with the support from the WL it starts to take apart the enemy force.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion



Oregon

If you don't take any vehicles, then you pretty much need to put BL/EML on your lords - the army is so slow, you just have to have a way to reach out and touch someone, and 3 BL/EML wraithlords will get that job done.

My list (in general)
Eldrad
Avatar

10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)

10x harlies, shadowseer, 10x kisses

BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord

then fill points with what i feel like, on a whim. Typically, it is a deepstriking unit that i don't want to be shot, or rangers/pathfinders. Do not break target denial if at all possible.

This list is really, really, really hard for many armies to deal with. Deployment and movement are your most important phases, because more or less, anything you shoot at dies, but if you deploy wrong, it takes the entire game to cross the board.

On using harlies - I find wraithguard have no trouble dealing with non-specialist CC units, as they take 0-1 wounds and deal 3 or 4 back. They begin to suffer horribly against things like ork nobs and assault termies - high strength CC attacks that ignore armor. For this, the perfect counter is harlies, who hit hard, and also have an invuln save. You can keep them right behind the wraithguard, and they are protected by VoT (anyone who gets close enough to fire are putting them close to your wraithcannons).
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Concord, California

I use a similar army, but I don't take WG, just 3 WL's and Eldrad plus the Avatar.

You need the BL/EML's for ranged anti tank. Plus, anything gets close and the WL's can jump into a combat to add some staying power.


   
Made in fi
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Finland

Thanks for the tips guys. And yeah, I'm not going to get many/any vehicles, as my SM army has more than enough of those

Might think about getting harlequins.


Hopefully I'll be able to start with this army soon




 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut




I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.

   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion



Oregon

thats using a very expensive unit for something they really aren't designed to do. Spend the points to put conceal on the wraithguard's spiritseer, and put the harlies behind the wraithguard. Harlies real weakness is shooting, the wraithguard don't give a damn about shooting. Fortune+conceal is more than good enough for wraithguard. You want your harlies untouched for when they need to take on 10 assault termies that just poured out of a LR.
   
Made in se
Brainy Zoanthrope




Sweden

If you´re going for a footslogging army, then you really need the EML/BL combo on all three Wraithlords to deal with those pesky Land Raiders and other armour. Harlies are also something to consider as a counter-attack unit as Veil of Tears make them practically invulnerable to anything more than 24" away and works well even withing this distance. The thing to be aware of are drop podding bolters and the such as they will be close enough to ignore VoT. Acctually I would go for the Harlies rather than the Scorpions as they have more synergy with the whole idea of a Wraith-army (Don´t present any easy targets). If they can´t shoot you, you´re not an easy target!

I will also second the choice of putting conceal on the spiritseer, as it works very well with fortune.

 
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

Eldrad
Avatar

10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)

10x harlies, shadowseer, 10x kisses

BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord

Looks very interesting.
However, do you need two full WG units?
These warriors have very short ranged weapons and the only units
that can slow down the enemy's advance are the WL's.
I'd replace one WG unit by two units of Dire Avengers with bladestorm and defend.

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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Concord, California

Definitely take the harlies! I run them in my list and they provide teeth up close. The avatar, 3 WL's and the harlies mean pretty much anything that comes close is getting a swift kick to the nuts.

Plus you can use them aggressively to attack if you need to.

   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion



Oregon

Add dire avengers? Why? adding in dire avengers just ensures they will be the target of every single s5-and-below weapon the enemy has in his army (which will be a lot).

Keeping the army to t6+, IC, or VoT-protected causes the majority of shots the enemy takes to be largely ineffective (even tau basic weapons are wounding on 5's).
   
Made in nl
Emboldened Warlock





Groningen

Isn't adding a regular warlock to both units enough to counter wraithsight? As they are part of the unit, they will ofc always be within 6 inches?
   
Made in se
Brainy Zoanthrope




Sweden

The thing is that the Warlock must be upgraded to a spiritseer for the unit to count as a troops choice.

 
   
Made in us
Storming Storm Guardian






Upgrading to seers gives your WL's more range to roam around, and not stuck within 6" of your infantry.
   
Made in nl
Emboldened Warlock





Groningen

Had not thought of either of these issues, thanks. I need to free up some points elswhere in my list then
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk




A farseer really helps wraithguard, if you can stomach having eldrad in your iyanden army he would help out a lot more.

With two units of wraithguard and 3 WL .... at least consider instead of an avatar to take karandas. You dont need the avatar to make anything fearless, so the cc punch that karandas adds can be really helpful.


Sliggoth


Why does my eldar army run three fire prisms? Because the rules wont let me use four in (regular 40k). 
   
Made in se
Brainy Zoanthrope




Sweden

Why I take the Avatar over other characters is beacuse it adds another high toughness priority target.

A Fortuned Avatar will soak up alot of firepower before it goes down and your opponent will have to choose between shooting A) Your Avatar, B) Your Wraithlords and C) Your Wraithguard, while all are rushing at him. Theres no easy answer to that equation and whatever he chooses, the other parts of your army will still reach the enemy intact.

I think, that is in essence how an Iyanden army should be played.

 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion



Oregon

I would say, take the avatar instead of a PL simply because the avatar is better and cheaper.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Concord, California

Yeah, he is much better and cheaper, he fits well in the list, although I do love Krandras in a seer council.

As for using DA's, I run a Elfzilla list with 40 DA's instead of WG and it works well. The DA's put out a waterfall of str 4 shots at a greater range, are scoring, faster the WG and much more numerous. Are they better? That depends on who you are playing. I do it to be different and have found them to work well in such high numbers.

   
Made in be
Flower Picking Eldar Youth




Hey all,

I'm wondering what you think of my Iyanden list... i went for a small hammer and anvil type of army... this list is for a 1000 points

HQ:
Autarch Warpjumpgenerator, mandiblasters, powersword

Elite:
5 WG + Spiritseer

Troops
10 WG + Spiritseer
10 GD + warlock (conceal) + EML

Fast attack:
4 Warpspiders + Exarch (dual death spinner, powerblades, Surprise Assault, Withraw)


The goal is to make with the WG an slow forward moving anvil supported by a static long range support of the eldar missile launcher inside the concealed guardian defenders. The Warpspiders tag along with the autarch going in deep to become the anvil being able to powersword/blade through most though armored infantry.
This army list is just over 1000 points making it very doable to start with an Iyanden army in my opinion :-)

So opinions on this matter would be greatly valued...
   
Made in fi
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Finland

Personally I think 15 Wraithguards in a 1000p list is overkill.

I'd remove 5 and add something else in there instead.

Not fan of the autarch, as I think guide/fortune/doom is worth every point But they arent bad either so its your call really.

I like the warpspiders

Do you give your spiritseers conceal? If you dont, I dont see the wraithguards lasting very long as all ap 1-2-3 weapons will be aimed towards them.




 
   
Made in be
Flower Picking Eldar Youth




i think it's important to stay in a Iyanden theme... what would you suggest otherwise? a Wraithlord? I think it's important to stay true to the iyanden army... I've seen a lot of lists where every trooplist was mentioned but the wraithguard where only minimally present...

The Autarch would be like the Warp spider exarch a blow dealing machine that is able to bypass most armours... making it easy for a troop killing/ fast moving hammer type of troops into the anvil like iyanden wraith guard...

So what do you think of the other 5 WG? what would be a good investment for you?
   
Made in fi
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Finland

Yes I agree that its important to stay in the iyanden theme, and I'm not asking you to drop it.

However personally I don't like to have guardians in a Iyanden army, so I'd change those to pathfinders. I'd also probably remove the 5 wraithguards and add two wraithlords.

As I said, I dont want you to drop the Iyanden theme, I just think 15 wraithguard costs too much in 1000p.




 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




FT Hood, TX

DarthDiggler wrote:I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.



Now here is one of the more interesting situations. If the Harlies have VoTs and I cannot see them, can they still really provide a cover save to the unit behind them? Since cover is based on the target being obscured by something between him and the shooter, if the Harlies can't be freely seen and shot at than they can't really screen anything either.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Whatever you do, be sure to take a farseer. Particularly with mind war. With the short range of the wraithguard, you're going to be close. And, when you're that close, you're going to be charged. With mind war you can snipe the power fists out of offending squads and then laugh as they try to wound toughness 6.

Fortune is also a big help.

That is all.

Build a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Sly Marbo was originally armed with a power weapon, but he dropped it while assaulting a space marine command squad just so his enemies could feel pain.

Sly Marbo doesn't go to ground, the ground comes to him.  
   
Made in be
Flower Picking Eldar Youth




So the new list:

HQ:
Autarch Warpjumpgenerator, mandiblasters, powersword

Troops
10 WG + Spiritseer
10 guardians + warlock (conceal) + EML
5 Rangers

Fast attack:
4 Warpspiders + Exarch (dual death spinner, powerblades, Surprise Assault, Withraw)

Heavy Support:
Wraithlord (scatter laser)

This would come at a 1000 points where the 5 wraithguard are changed with a wraithlord with scatter lasers (long range infantry killing) and 5 rangers (long range pinning) which could be handy for getting the anvil more close

So what do you think?


   
Made in se
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant



Lost in the warp while searching for a new codex

I would prefer Yriel over an Avatar in a list with two WGs, being able to fortune both WG squads is awesome.


I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
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Made in us







on board Terminus Est

The warp spider squad is quite small. I would use those points for something else... You need some tank busting, how about some war walkers?

G

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Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol






The eye of terror.

PanzerLeader wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.



Now here is one of the more interesting situations. If the Harlies have VoTs and I cannot see them, can they still really provide a cover save to the unit behind them? Since cover is based on the target being obscured by something between him and the shooter, if the Harlies can't be freely seen and shot at than they can't really screen anything either.


As Veil of Tears is only triggered if you actually shoot at the harlequins, there's no way of knowing whether or not you can actually "see them."

That being said, since they are an intervening unit, they offer a cover save to other units behind them. It's that simple.

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