Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2009/10/05 13:06:55
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
|
I'm thinking of starting a new fluffy army sometime in the future. I really enjoy the Iyandens fluff and the Wraithguard -lord models, so I want to make a more or less full army based around wraithguards and wraithlords. However, even if i dont need to have it super competative, I'd like to have an army that I can sometimes win with So how should one use a list that is based around this? HQ: Farseer or Yriel Troops: 10x Wraithguard w/ Spiritseer 10x Wraithguard w/ Spiritseer Heavy Support: 1x Wraithlord 1x Wraithlord 1x Wraithlord Is it viable to use wraithguard as the only troop choices? I could use pathfinders, as they would fit with the fluff, but imo they dont fit with the theme. How should one use floot slogging wraithguard, with their short range? What should I do with the wraithlords? What upgrades would fit best in this theme? (I'm thinking of giving each wraithlord a wraithsword, because imo they look great ) Overall, is it possible to give others a run for their money with a list based around wraithguards and wraithlords? I'd use around 1500p in the army. I'm not really asking what models to take, because I want extremely wraith heavy lists. Just if it is viable to play with these lists, and if so, what tactic should I use.
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/10/05 18:57:31
|
|
|
|
2009/10/05 13:49:30
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
Iyanden-themed armies can certainly be competative. Personally I prefer to run the Wraithguard behind a wall of MCs, using Swordlords with dual flamers and an Avatar. I also usually run a mixed-mech approach with aspect squads in serpents to support the wraithwall.
A Farseer is almost a must in Wraith-armies as Fortune is a very important ingredient in this type of list, as it keeps your 35pts models alive longer. In my more competative lists I run Eldrad for the double Fortune, as a fortuned Avatar is nothing to laugh at.
As you say, Wraithguard have a very short range, and should just run towards the enemy ASAP, preferrably supported by a bunch of Wraithlords and an Avatar. The Wraithlords doesn´t really need any ranged weapons apart from the flamers - just give them the Wraithblade and run them towards the enemy with the Wraithguard. If you do want them to carry heavy weapons though, I recommend you equip them all with EML/Brightlance, as one BL usually isn´t enough to threaten enemy armour seriously.
Secondary troop choices could be either Rangers or Reserved Guardian Jetbikes squads. I personally prefer the Jetbikes for their mobility, however in an all-footsloggers list, as you seem intent on building, Rangers might be a better choice.
Also, if you are not taking serpents with aspect troops, you might want to consider a unit of Striking Scorpions to support the Wraithguard in combat, although 3 Lords and an Avatar Should be able to handle most of these threats.
The goal of the mixed-mech Wraith army is to deny the enemy any soft targets, so the majority of their weapons won´t be able to hurt you. You will only present targets with at least T6 or Wave Serpents with AV12 and the special Force Field rule. That is a tough nut to crack for most armies.
Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees and Fire Dragons always are good choices to put in serpents for supporting the WG. Avengers easily manage hordes (which the WLs flamers do just as well, but some redundancy doesn´t hurt you) and can put some wounds on enemy MCs and even MEQ & TEQ through rate of fire. Banshees are good for threatening enemy heavy infantry and can also act as counter assault for the wraithguard. I usually find that the WLs and Avatar can handle that part. And, the most important aspect to include; the Fire Dragons! with no real ranged AT, you will want to have these guys blowing up Land Raiders and the like before the nasty CC-squad that resides within gets to tear your WG apart. If it´s one thing that Wraith armies hate, it is Assault Terminators assaulting out of a Land Raider, as they have approximately 22" charge radius, so they can sit outside the effective threat range of the WG, which is 18". However, always, always give the Dragons a Serpent. It makes their job alot easier and gives the enemy another tough target to split his heavy fire on.
There, I hope it wasn´t too much of a wall of text and that you find it helpful
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/05 15:07:52
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Storming Storm Guardian
|
The core of my Iyanden army is two squads of twenty wraith guard, and three wraith lords. If you add anything make it close combat support, as while the guard can take it, they have a hard time inflicting the large number of wounds to MEQ. As for tactics, I make a wall and march fortune/concealed WG units straight at most opponent's strong points. Usually (for me) about 75% makes it, and along with the support from the WL it starts to take apart the enemy force.
|
|
|
|
2009/10/05 21:48:54
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
Oregon
|
If you don't take any vehicles, then you pretty much need to put BL/EML on your lords - the army is so slow, you just have to have a way to reach out and touch someone, and 3 BL/EML wraithlords will get that job done.
My list (in general)
Eldrad
Avatar
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x harlies, shadowseer, 10x kisses
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
then fill points with what i feel like, on a whim. Typically, it is a deepstriking unit that i don't want to be shot, or rangers/pathfinders. Do not break target denial if at all possible.
This list is really, really, really hard for many armies to deal with. Deployment and movement are your most important phases, because more or less, anything you shoot at dies, but if you deploy wrong, it takes the entire game to cross the board.
On using harlies - I find wraithguard have no trouble dealing with non-specialist CC units, as they take 0-1 wounds and deal 3 or 4 back. They begin to suffer horribly against things like ork nobs and assault termies - high strength CC attacks that ignore armor. For this, the perfect counter is harlies, who hit hard, and also have an invuln save. You can keep them right behind the wraithguard, and they are protected by VoT (anyone who gets close enough to fire are putting them close to your wraithcannons).
|
|
|
|
2009/10/05 23:11:16
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Awesome Autarch
|
I use a similar army, but I don't take WG, just 3 WL's and Eldrad plus the Avatar.
You need the BL/EML's for ranged anti tank. Plus, anything gets close and the WL's can jump into a combat to add some staying power.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 06:07:00
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
|
Thanks for the tips guys. And yeah, I'm not going to get many/any vehicles, as my SM army has more than enough of those
Might think about getting harlequins.
Hopefully I'll be able to start with this army soon
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 06:21:42
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 06:56:07
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
Oregon
|
thats using a very expensive unit for something they really aren't designed to do. Spend the points to put conceal on the wraithguard's spiritseer, and put the harlies behind the wraithguard. Harlies real weakness is shooting, the wraithguard don't give a damn about shooting. Fortune+conceal is more than good enough for wraithguard. You want your harlies untouched for when they need to take on 10 assault termies that just poured out of a LR.
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 13:40:33
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
If you´re going for a footslogging army, then you really need the EML/BL combo on all three Wraithlords to deal with those pesky Land Raiders and other armour. Harlies are also something to consider as a counter-attack unit as Veil of Tears make them practically invulnerable to anything more than 24" away and works well even withing this distance. The thing to be aware of are drop podding bolters and the such as they will be close enough to ignore VoT. Acctually I would go for the Harlies rather than the Scorpions as they have more synergy with the whole idea of a Wraith-army (Don´t present any easy targets). If they can´t shoot you, you´re not an easy target!
I will also second the choice of putting conceal on the spiritseer, as it works very well with fortune.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 18:38:30
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Eldrad
Avatar
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x WG (spiritseer, conceal)
10x harlies, shadowseer, 10x kisses
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
BL/EML wraithlord
Looks very interesting.
However, do you need two full WG units?
These warriors have very short ranged weapons and the only units
that can slow down the enemy's advance are the WL's.
I'd replace one WG unit by two units of Dire Avengers with bladestorm and defend.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
|
|
2009/10/06 18:52:56
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Awesome Autarch
|
Definitely take the harlies! I run them in my list and they provide teeth up close. The avatar, 3 WL's and the harlies mean pretty much anything that comes close is getting a swift kick to the nuts.
Plus you can use them aggressively to attack if you need to.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 20:27:24
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
Oregon
|
Add dire avengers? Why? adding in dire avengers just ensures they will be the target of every single s5-and-below weapon the enemy has in his army (which will be a lot).
Keeping the army to t6+, IC, or VoT-protected causes the majority of shots the enemy takes to be largely ineffective (even tau basic weapons are wounding on 5's).
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 20:52:01
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Emboldened Warlock
|
Isn't adding a regular warlock to both units enough to counter wraithsight? As they are part of the unit, they will ofc always be within 6 inches?
|
|
|
|
2009/10/06 21:53:08
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
The thing is that the Warlock must be upgraded to a spiritseer for the unit to count as a troops choice.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/07 04:41:30
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Storming Storm Guardian
|
Upgrading to seers gives your WL's more range to roam around, and not stuck within 6" of your infantry.
|
|
|
|
2009/10/07 10:53:17
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Emboldened Warlock
|
Had not thought of either of these issues, thanks. I need to free up some points elswhere in my list then
|
|
|
|
2009/10/07 17:27:25
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Swift Swooping Hawk
|
A farseer really helps wraithguard, if you can stomach having eldrad in your iyanden army he would help out a lot more.
With two units of wraithguard and 3 WL .... at least consider instead of an avatar to take karandas. You dont need the avatar to make anything fearless, so the cc punch that karandas adds can be really helpful.
Sliggoth
|
Why does my eldar army run three fire prisms? Because the rules wont let me use four in (regular 40k). |
|
|
|
2009/10/07 20:45:13
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
Why I take the Avatar over other characters is beacuse it adds another high toughness priority target.
A Fortuned Avatar will soak up alot of firepower before it goes down and your opponent will have to choose between shooting A) Your Avatar, B) Your Wraithlords and C) Your Wraithguard, while all are rushing at him. Theres no easy answer to that equation and whatever he chooses, the other parts of your army will still reach the enemy intact.
I think, that is in essence how an Iyanden army should be played.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/10/07 21:28:27
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
Oregon
|
I would say, take the avatar instead of a PL simply because the avatar is better and cheaper.
|
|
|
|
2009/10/07 21:50:57
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Awesome Autarch
|
Yeah, he is much better and cheaper, he fits well in the list, although I do love Krandras in a seer council.
As for using DA's, I run a Elfzilla list with 40 DA's instead of WG and it works well. The DA's put out a waterfall of str 4 shots at a greater range, are scoring, faster the WG and much more numerous. Are they better? That depends on who you are playing. I do it to be different and have found them to work well in such high numbers.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/11/01 19:47:06
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Flower Picking Eldar Youth
|
Hey all,
I'm wondering what you think of my Iyanden list... i went for a small hammer and anvil type of army... this list is for a 1000 points
HQ:
Autarch Warpjumpgenerator, mandiblasters, powersword
Elite:
5 WG + Spiritseer
Troops
10 WG + Spiritseer
10 GD + warlock (conceal) + EML
Fast attack:
4 Warpspiders + Exarch (dual death spinner, powerblades, Surprise Assault, Withraw)
The goal is to make with the WG an slow forward moving anvil supported by a static long range support of the eldar missile launcher inside the concealed guardian defenders. The Warpspiders tag along with the autarch going in deep to become the anvil being able to powersword/blade through most though armored infantry.
This army list is just over 1000 points making it very doable to start with an Iyanden army in my opinion :-)
So opinions on this matter would be greatly valued...
|
|
|
|
2009/11/04 20:28:50
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
|
Personally I think 15 Wraithguards in a 1000p list is overkill.
I'd remove 5 and add something else in there instead.
Not fan of the autarch, as I think guide/fortune/doom is worth every point But they arent bad either so its your call really.
I like the warpspiders
Do you give your spiritseers conceal? If you dont, I dont see the wraithguards lasting very long as all ap 1-2-3 weapons will be aimed towards them.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/11/04 22:19:00
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Flower Picking Eldar Youth
|
i think it's important to stay in a Iyanden theme... what would you suggest otherwise? a Wraithlord? I think it's important to stay true to the iyanden army... I've seen a lot of lists where every trooplist was mentioned but the wraithguard where only minimally present...
The Autarch would be like the Warp spider exarch a blow dealing machine that is able to bypass most armours... making it easy for a troop killing/ fast moving hammer type of troops into the anvil like iyanden wraith guard...
So what do you think of the other 5 WG? what would be a good investment for you?
|
|
|
|
2009/11/05 05:14:47
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Sneaky Striking Scorpion
|
Yes I agree that its important to stay in the iyanden theme, and I'm not asking you to drop it.
However personally I don't like to have guardians in a Iyanden army, so I'd change those to pathfinders. I'd also probably remove the 5 wraithguards and add two wraithlords.
As I said, I dont want you to drop the Iyanden theme, I just think 15 wraithguard costs too much in 1000p.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/11/05 06:06:29
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Preacher of the Emperor
|
DarthDiggler wrote:I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.
Now here is one of the more interesting situations. If the Harlies have VoTs and I cannot see them, can they still really provide a cover save to the unit behind them? Since cover is based on the target being obscured by something between him and the shooter, if the Harlies can't be freely seen and shot at than they can't really screen anything either.
|
|
|
|
2009/11/05 08:22:02
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Whatever you do, be sure to take a farseer. Particularly with mind war. With the short range of the wraithguard, you're going to be close. And, when you're that close, you're going to be charged. With mind war you can snipe the power fists out of offending squads and then laugh as they try to wound toughness 6.
Fortune is also a big help.
That is all.
|
Build a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Sly Marbo was originally armed with a power weapon, but he dropped it while assaulting a space marine command squad just so his enemies could feel pain.
Sly Marbo doesn't go to ground, the ground comes to him. |
|
|
|
2009/11/05 15:19:50
Subject: Re:Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Flower Picking Eldar Youth
|
So the new list:
HQ:
Autarch Warpjumpgenerator, mandiblasters, powersword
Troops
10 WG + Spiritseer
10 guardians + warlock (conceal) + EML
5 Rangers
Fast attack:
4 Warpspiders + Exarch (dual death spinner, powerblades, Surprise Assault, Withraw)
Heavy Support:
Wraithlord (scatter laser)
This would come at a 1000 points where the 5 wraithguard are changed with a wraithlord with scatter lasers (long range infantry killing) and 5 rangers (long range pinning) which could be handy for getting the anvil more close
So what do you think?
|
|
|
|
2009/11/05 16:02:51
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
Lost in the warp while searching for a new codex
|
I would prefer Yriel over an Avatar in a list with two WGs, being able to fortune both WG squads is awesome.
|
I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
15k
10k |
|
|
|
2009/11/06 00:25:38
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
The warp spider squad is quite small. I would use those points for something else... You need some tank busting, how about some war walkers?
G
|
|
|
|
|
2009/11/06 01:49:11
Subject: Iyanden Army Tactics
|
|
Junior Officer with Laspistol
|
PanzerLeader wrote:DarthDiggler wrote:I've seen Harlies protecting the Wraithguard. The Harlies are in front and provide a 4+ cover save to the WG who are usually fortuned. It's very hard to remove the mobile 4+ cover save provided by the Harlies unless the enemy comes real close and then the Wraithguard hit them with the cannons.
Now here is one of the more interesting situations. If the Harlies have VoTs and I cannot see them, can they still really provide a cover save to the unit behind them? Since cover is based on the target being obscured by something between him and the shooter, if the Harlies can't be freely seen and shot at than they can't really screen anything either.
As Veil of Tears is only triggered if you actually shoot at the harlequins, there's no way of knowing whether or not you can actually "see them."
That being said, since they are an intervening unit, they offer a cover save to other units behind them. It's that simple.
|
Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right
New to the game and can't win? Read this.
|
|
|
|
|