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Made in ca
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Hey, I'm hoping someone can clarify this for me because I am unsure how swooping hawks rules exactly work with their skyleap ability. I know that deep strike can not be performed after turn 5, so does that mean that after the 5th turn of play the swooping hawks can no longer use skyleap? Also I thought that I read somewhere online that a swooping hawk can skyleap and deep strike in the same turn, but the rules seem to suggest that the deep strike needs to be the following turn. Could anyone offer up some clarification on this ability?

 
   
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Made in au
[MOD]
Murderfanger on a Murdercycle






Brisbane, Oz

Mr 4 Strings wrote:I know that deep strike can not be performed after turn 5, so does that mean that after the 5th turn of play the swooping hawks can no longer use skyleap?


There is nothing stopping you from Deep Striking after turn 5.

Turn 5 and onward sees Reserves rolls become automatic, so if anything, Deep Striking is easier from that point.


You're possibly getting confused with the rule that states that they're destroyed if they roll a DS Mishap on turn 5 or after and don't make it back onto the board before the game ends... I can't think of anything else that might have given the impression DS was impossible at that point in the game.



Also I thought that I read somewhere online that a swooping hawk can skyleap and deep strike in the same turn, but the rules seem to suggest that the deep strike needs to be the following turn. Could anyone offer up some clarification on this ability?


You have it backwards. They can Deep Strike and then Skyleap in the same turn, and then (assuming they make their Reserves roll) do it again next turn.

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Mr 4 Strings wrote:Hey, I'm hoping someone can clarify this for me because I am unsure how swooping hawks rules exactly work with their skyleap ability. I know that deep strike can not be performed after turn 5, so does that mean that after the 5th turn of play the swooping hawks can no longer use skyleap? Also I thought that I read somewhere online that a swooping hawk can skyleap and deep strike in the same turn, but the rules seem to suggest that the deep strike needs to be the following turn. Could anyone offer up some clarification on this ability?


Check GW's Eldar FAQ. They have indeed clarified that Hawks can Deep Strike and then Skyleap in the same turn. Also, your assumption that you cannot Deep Strike after turn 5 is false, only that units in Reserve automatically arrive without having to roll, so any Hawks Skyleaping back into Reserves after turn 5 will automatically arrive the next turn.

Personally I think it is a terribly abusive ruling that GW made in their FAQ, but it is what it is. At least in 5th edition it is a little easier for the unit to suffer a mishap while Deep Striking so any Hawk units that are coming down multiple times during the game are a bit more likely to possibly die but that's not really much of a consolation to a Guard/Tyranid/Ork player getting reamed by their Grenade Pack blast without the ability to anything about it.



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Made in ca
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Ooh ok. Thanks for clearing that up a bit. my friends and I are brand new so we're still learning these things

Doesn't this put the Swooping Hawks at a huge advantage though? If they can deep strike and then skyleap in the same turn how can they be attacked at all? If we understand the rules correctly they can drop their grenade pack every time they deep strike back down, but land in a location far away from combat, then skyleap again and avoid being hurt?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/06 06:21:00


 
   
Made in th
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker






what does your army make up look like?

just curious
im new so need some outside opinions, no on here plays the eldars

"We are the wolf that stalks
The stars in the sky

And swallows the star-fire

We hide amongst the night
When light is gone

The Light is within us

We run the ruin of Fire
In the darkness

Foes burn in our passing "



"The weak will always be led by the strong. Where the strong see purpose and act, the weak follow; where the strong cry out against fate, the weak bow their heads and succumb. There are many who are weak; and many are their temptations. Despise the weak for they shall flock to the call of the Daemon and the Renegade. Pity them not and scorn their cries of innocence - it is better that one hundred innocently fall before the wrath of the Emperor than one kneels before the Daemon."  
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Mr 4 Strings wrote:Ooh ok. Thanks for clearing that up a bit. my friends and I are brand new so we're still learning these things

Doesn't this put the Swooping Hawks at a huge advantage though? If they can deep strike and then skyleap in the same turn how can they be attacked at all? If we understand the rules correctly they can drop their grenade pack every time they deep strike back down, but land in a location far away from combat, then skyleap again and avoid being hurt?



Yes, it puts them at a huge advantage because the only way you can possibly attack them is with something that gets to immediately attack a Deep Striking unit (like an army with Deamonhunter Mystics, for example). Against certain enemies it can be hugely over-powering to have 3 of these dive-bombing units, which is why I say GW's FAQ ruling on the matter is horrible IMHO.

If you want to look at the silver lining, there are a few 'issues' (not really) with using this tactic:


1) In 5th edition you don't know exactly when the game is going to end so it makes it harder for these Hawks to dominate in last second objective grabs (although if you get to the 7th turn then they sure do).

2) In 5th edition getting a DS mishap is much easier than previously which means that an army with 3 yo-ho hawk units is probably going to lose one every now and then due to a mishap.

3) Grenade packs aren't all that against MEQ armies, so if you're playing in a tournament or take-all-comers style pick up game (i.e. you don't know what army you'll be facing when picking your army), you kind of end up with Hawk units that aren't so useful against certain army types.


So while it does suck that it exists in the game at all, IMO, it isn't the worst thing in the world you can face.


Avalon wrote:what does your army make up look like?

just curious
im new so need some outside opinions, no on here plays the eldars



Please don't take the off-topic. Look in the army list and tactics forum and there should be plenty of Eldar specific advice to read there on how to make an Eldar army.




I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in ca
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Thank you very much for explaining all of this for me! This has been very helpful.

 
   
Made in us






US

Just to give two cents on this my army uses 3x 5 hawks with skyleap exarch. I also have a hawk Autarch with fusion pistol/PW to gain the +1 to reserves. The ability to land and leap in the same turn is indeed powerful, and you can also leap if your engaged from the round prior.

You can leap any turn, but remember if the game ends and they are in the air they are destroyed.

Major things to take into account:
- Even the minimum 5 hawks with leapleap is really expensive point wise.
- They are super squishy. In my experiance trying to land them to fire or wait for that vehicle assualt next round = dead hawks.
- Dropping your grenade packs on the majority of units with just tickle them.

Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about!
|Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






QFT

Be careful where you bunch up or the hawks will **** on your head...

I have dabbled in using these in my tourney list. This weekend it could become reality.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/08 03:58:38


2012 tourney record:
Eldar 18W-2L-5D Overall x4
Deathwing 21W-7L-6D Overall x4 Best General x1 Best Appearance x3, 19th place Adepticon 40k Champs.
Space Wolves 2W-0L-1D Best Painted x1

Armies:
1850+ pts. 3000+ pts. 2000+

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Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper




yakface wrote:

3) Grenade packs aren't all that against MEQ armies, so if you're playing in a tournament or take-all-comers style pick up game (i.e. you don't know what army you'll be facing when picking your army), you kind of end up with Hawk units that aren't so useful against certain army types.



They aren't really anything against MEQ between the scattering and needing 4's to wound things with a 3+ save. They would be good against so few armies that it seems silly to take them unless it is part of a complete KP denial army. This kind of army seems like it would suffer anyways.

Hawks are about the complete opposite of broken. They would have to be useful against the majority of armies and not a waste against the rest. I think a good definition of broken is something there is no counter strategy for. While there isn't much of one for Hawks, they are just not very strong. If they were using Lash or shooting Plasma cannons before jumping back into reserves that might be broken.
   
Made in us






US

Oh how I wish they could shoot then sky leap *sigh* lol

Also to respond to the bit about easy to die on entry, if you are using yo-yo hawks then just land in a nice open area.

Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about!
|Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk




Yoyo hawks are an expensive way to get a large blast marker that isnt going to do much damage to many armies. And the thing is, to really make them work its almost required to have an autarch in the list as well.

The really sad part is that for the eldar (an army famously know as a fast army) the yoyo hawks arent much worse than the other fast attack choices. If it wasnt for warp spiders the whole eldar fast attack section could be written off.



Sliggoth

Why does my eldar army run three fire prisms? Because the rules wont let me use four in (regular 40k). 
   
 
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