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Made in au
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

What language is most similar to mainstream speak in 40k?

Smacks wrote:
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

A confusing mix of our actual tongues?

But Latin could be part of it.

Example:

Imperator Gloriam.

Wouldnt make sense in the 40k universe without some understanding of Latin.


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Fluffspeak =

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Craparella
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Gothic and 'Tech' (old Gothic) are actually likely unlike Latin, but take more from a mix of English, Chinese and others.

The reason why Tech is presented as Latin is that is the sort of evocative feeling the language evokes in the people; the language of an older time, of past greatness and much pomp.

One thing missing from modern 40k which was prevalent in Rogue Trader was some places Chinese Character style and Katakana style writing, you can see some (though it's only the style, no actual writing) on the Logan's World section in the Rogue Trader rulebook.

tl;dr version: Gothic is actually Chinese.

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Lethal Lhamean






In RT there were no primarchs.. I dont see any chinese nowadays. The chinese thing is played out anyways just reminds me of serenity.

I think latin makes a good fit.

I always just assumed it was English with the higher language being the big words lol.
   
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Preacher of the Emperor





Yeah... this would predate Firefly.

Latin makes little sense. It's already a dead language.


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Hacking Shang Jí





Tyyr wrote:Yeah... this would predate Firefly.

Latin makes little sense. It's already a dead language.

Exactly, even by the time that there was 'Tech' (used in technical manuals), even English would be archaic.

What you see as 'Latin' would be in the future a different language, but is treated by the people then as we look at Latin now.


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Sinewy Scourge






Western Australia

I'm fairly sure that High Gothic is rendered in horribly mutilated latin-esk sounding phrases to give the impression of a more formal, glorious tongue, the same way some very formal masses are delivered in church latin today. (Most of what is written in high gothic isn't 'proper' latin, it just gives that vibe. It'd be a lot harder to figure out what it meant otherwise.)

Low gothic is rendered in english because it is the common tongue (and because we're all playing the0k. game in english). Neither languages would actually be the slightest bit recognisable to anyone today, should they exist. I mean, Shakespeare can be a touch difficult to understand, the original Canterbury Tales is almost incomprehensible to a modern reader without having studied such old forms of english, and technically they're both in our own tongue and under a millennium old. The closest we can come to a language over a 40 000 year timescale would be the oldest forms of hieroglyphs or cuneiform, both of which are understood by only a handful of people in the world and then only partially. And that's covering about half the timescale, I think.

So none of us would be able to recognise either of the gothic tongues from 40k.

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Leader of the Sept




USA

Tyyr wrote:Yeah... this would predate Firefly.

Latin makes little sense. It's already a dead language.


But we use it as a base line language in the west. Science makes wide use of latin, because it provides mutual names for the entire western world to work with. Also remember that two of the most spoken languages in the world descend directly from Latin (Spanish and French). The Western Alphabet is based on latin as well.

It is not far fetched to assume a latin-like language could arise at some point in history only to be adopted by the Emperor or the humans he led.

Also keep in mind the Imperium itself is very similar to the dying Roman Empire... and it's very grimdark that way, lets face it

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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





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Latin is a great technical language because it's so dull and straightforward. English, French, and all the other 'Romance' language could be considered 'low Latin', although that would actually be the Church Latin of the Middle Ages when it was debased from a language of everyday life to a language of religion and government.

I suppose you could say:

Latin:English::High Gothic:Low Gothic.
   
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Leader of the Sept




USA

Nurglitch wrote:Latin:Spanish/French/Protugese/Italian::High Gothic:Low Gothic.


Fixed.

English is descended from German, not Latin. Yes I am a smarty pants. I apologize for nothing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/29 15:33:58


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And heavily influenced by French.

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Steelmage99 wrote:And heavily influenced by French.


True. English is the catch all language. We got stuff in ours from five or six I think. Long time ago Great Britain was the melting pot of Europe.

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Preacher of the Emperor





LordofHats wrote:But we use it as a base line language in the west. Science makes wide use of latin, because it provides mutual names for the entire western world to work with. Also remember that two of the most spoken languages in the world descend directly from Latin (Spanish and French). The Western Alphabet is based on latin as well.

It is not far fetched to assume a latin-like language could arise at some point in history only to be adopted by the Emperor or the humans he led.

Also keep in mind the Imperium itself is very similar to the dying Roman Empire... and it's very grimdark that way, lets face it

Yes, much of modern language is derived from Latin. That doesn't make it any less dead as a language. As far as I'm aware of there is no group on Earth that still uses Latin as their native tongue. None. It's dead. It's derivatives live on but as a living evolving language... it's not.

As Morgrim said, the odds are heavily stacked against either form of Gothic being the least bit recognizable to modern humans. Look how language has evolved in the last 5,000 years. There's eight times as much time between now and Gothic. To think that anything recognizable will survive that long is.... stupid.


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I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





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That's the point: dead languages don't change or evolve. It's the perfect solution to dealing with the fragmentation of languages.
   
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Elite Tyranid Warrior





La Coruna, Spain

I don't know what is imperial language based on, but it sounds quite good.



 
   
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Preacher of the Emperor





Nurglitch wrote:That's the point: dead languages don't change or evolve. It's the perfect solution to dealing with the fragmentation of languages.

Except the moment that people start to use it again it begins to change and evolve.


mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
 
   
Made in ca
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





(user no longer active)

Except that it doesn't. That's the point of calling it a dead language. Natural languages only change and evolve when people have the opportunity to misuse them or innovate within them.

I'd certainly imagine that Imperial colony worlds probably start with some form of Low Gothic as the lingua franca and then fragment, but any correspondance or communication with other Imperial organizations will be done through a language that's as dead and codified as High Gothic.

Think about it, the fact that the Imperium contains somewhere around a million worlds, access to which is only possible via a medium involving considerable time-warpage (Astrotelepathy and Warp-Travel), means that the necessity of a 'undead' language like Latin or High Gothic is dire. It's like the STC - desirable because of its universality.

In a universe where you can teach people to produce computers via the indoctrination of brute ritual, I think preserving an 'undead' language would be fairly straightforward. Besides, what do you think all those Lexmechanics do?
   
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Sinewy Scourge






Western Australia

I laugh at the scientific use of latin being raised.

The scientific use is a bastardised child of latin and greek, certain words taken and used completely out of context, no thought of sentence structure or anything of tying it together, and shocking grammar. Not exactly a stable and useful representation of a dead language. Simplistic 2 or 3 sentence words rarely are.

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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

You have to remember, High/Low Gothic are the universal languages throughout the Imperium. Most planets have thier own language and dialect, but Gothic is relatively standard throughout the Imperium.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






VA Beach

I'm pretty sure one planet speaks by a series of chanting and frequent arm waving.


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Italian?
   
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Nurglitch wrote:Italian?
I lol'd.

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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

Well, what about translators? Would the Imperium have something akin to that?

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Emperors Faithful wrote:Well, what about translators? Would the Imperium have something akin to that?

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In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

GFM Solar Macharius:
' The Imperium is the most powerful force in the universe . It rewards those who stand with it.
It punishes those who defy it. It protects its allies. It smashes its enemies. '
 
   
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

What about device/machine wise?

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
Made in au
Sinewy Scourge






Western Australia

Fluent translation requires understanding. That would be heretech technology. A servitor may work, though.

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Or if you ever gave an Ork a reason to care about that. (Orks - Innovation in the Grimdark since 14M)

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