Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a friend who has An'ggrath, is getting the Bird, and might get the other two. We thought it might be fun to make ome rules for them in Fantasy. Here is what I came up with so far for the three I know. What do you guys think?

An’ggrath the Unbound-888 points

M-8
WS-10
BS-0
S-10
T-8
W-8
I-7
A-8
LD-10

Weapons & Armor
Ax and Whip
Daemonic Armor: Gives An’ggrath a 2+ Armor Save.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Fly
Large Target
Magic Resistance 3
Terror

Daemonic Gifts:
Fearless: There in nothing in this world or the next that scares a Daemon Lord. An’ggrath is unbreakable.
Blood Frenzy: When An’ggrath charges he gains D3 Attacks.
Favored of Khorne: Every time An’ggrath rolls a 6 to hit he immediately add an additional auto-hitting attack. This can increase his number of attacks beyond its starting value. It also gives him a 4+ Ward Save.
Immortal Fury: Check page 93 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook

Zarakynel the Souleater- 666 points

M-10
WS-9
BS-0
S-7
T-8
W-6
I-10
A-7
LD-10

Weapons & Armor:
The Souleater Sword: Zarakynel never wounds on worse then a 4+ and ignore ward saves.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Large Target
Terror
Always Strikes First
Armor Piercing

Magic:
Zarakynel is a Level 4 wizard who knows both the Daemons of Chaos and the Warriors of Chaos Lores of Slaanesh.

Daemonic Gifts
Fearless: There in nothing in this world or the next that scares a Daemon Lord. Zarakynel is unbreakable.
Favored of Slaanesh: In combat Zarakynel always swings first, regardless of enemy rules and gives Zarakynel a 4+ Ward Save. This includes when Zarakynel charges another unit with Always Strikes First.
Siren Song: See page 94 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.

Scabeiathrax the Bloated- 777 points

M-6
WS-6
BS-0
S-5
T-9
W-10
I-5
A-5
LD-10

Weapons & Armor:
Flail of Decay: For every hit Scabeiathrax inflicts two wounds. Example: if he hits with two of his attacks he does four wounds.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Large Target
Terror
Regeneration

Magic:
Scabeiathrax is a Level 4 wizard who knows both the Daemons of Chaos and the Warriors of Chaos Lores of Nurgle.

Daemonic Gifts:
Fearless: There in nothing in this world or the next that scares a Daemon Lord. Scabeiathrax is unbreakable.
Favored of Nurgle: Every enemy unit in base contact with Scabeiathrax takes D6 toughness test before the start of combat. For every fail test take an additional toughness test. Continue to do this until all toughness tests are passed or the unit is destroyed. Also Scabeiathrax recives a 4+ Ward Save.
Slime Trail: See page 94 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.

Holy crap those are over the top. No offense, but these stats and rules in fantasy don't even remotely compare to their power level in 40k. To even approach being reasonable, Angrath would probably have to be twice the cost and count as 2 Lord choices, and even then there is very little that could even hope to do something about him (other than a pile of Cannons, of course).

Ditto Zarakynel, for that matter, although she's slightly less likely to roll into a combat against a ranked up unit to the front and win by 6 like Angroth, but she'll still carve a unit up pretty well, particularly ignoring ward saves and being S7 AP and she'll have essentially nothing that can hurt her, always getting to go first, wrecking even formidable characters, T8, a ward save and unbreakable. On top of being a Level 4 wizard with what appears to be access to the entirety of one great lore and another lore that has a great spell. And to top that all off, she's actually cheaper than a regular KoS from the armybook (assuming you make the Keeper Level 4) and is essentially better in every conceivable way. Much better in fact.

Thanks for the imput. One thing about the Daemon Lords that I won't change about their points cost is their points cost. They each need to stick to triple digits of their respective sacred number. You say though that they are too good, noting An'ggrath and Zarakynel in particular. What do you recommend changing? I could drop their stats to the regualr daemons in Fantasy, wit the exception of maybe attack, keeping that sacred number. Drop fearless and make favored only increase their save? Drop all the regualr daemonic gifts? Should I drop that they know both Lores of insert X god here, and just keep the daemon one?

Well, with the Keeper in Particular, it is right at the cost of a regular Keeper, so to stay at 666 it should be right at that stat line... M10 is fine, as is high WS and I10... but at most it should be S6 AP, T6, W5. Some of the abilities are good and flavorful, and the ignoring ward saves ability and all that are at most a switch over from the Ld-shenanigans a regular keeper can do.

The absolutely huge thing about them, though, is being Unbreakable. They'll never run, of course, and should certainly be Immune to Psychology. But the Instability Test is there to mitigate the power level at least slightly. They'd probably be fine with the regular Daemon rules (which you already have listed on the profile). ItP with Daemonic Instability and the 5+ ward.

In terms of the magic, they should just have the Daemon Lore and should simply roll for their 4 spells. The rules would be a little fuzzy on a mage rolling for spells out of more than 1 lore at the same time, but knowing all of both Lores would make them caster that put Tzeentch Daemons to shame (particularly having both Nurgle Lores).

Now the other guys are a little more reasonable, as they have increased points costs relative to the corresponding GD (Angroth is over 300 points higher than a Thirster). For 888 points of pure killiness, he's not overly unreasonable. The big things that need to change are losing Unbreakable, and toning down his toughness. Regular BT's can be S10, rerolls are fine, etc, although I would consider a tweak to Favored of Khorne. Combined with rerolls to hit and 8+d3 attacks on the charge, it's pretty nasty. It wouldn't be unreasonable for him to roll out 13-14 hits. I definitely think he should have Immortal Fury though, and for 888 points in a guy, maybe go for it. Though perhaps he should be something like S8 instead. For the loss in S, he should pick up Killing Blow (he should have it anyway though...look at him).

Scabieathrax should mostly keep his same profile, he should actually have a higher S (6 at least) and the 10 wounds, but absolutely shouldn't be T9. That's pretty close to impossible to kill. Again, I think T6 should be good, and being all Nurgley, he should get Regeneration. Also, I think that rather than the current "Flail of Decay" rule he should basically have the Balesword ability from the armybook. And based on the name, it should also count as a flail (I'm not sure if you intended this or not).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So maybe more like
An’ggrath the Unbound-888 points

M-8
WS-10
BS-0
S-8
T-6
W-6
I-7
A-8
LD-10

Weapons & Armor
Ax and Whip
Daemonic Armor: Gives An’ggrath a 2+ Armor Save.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Fly
Large Target
Magic Resistance 3
Terror
Killing Blow

Daemonic Gifts:

Blood Frenzy: When An’ggrath charges he gains D3 Attacks.
Favored of Khorne: Every time An’ggrath rolls a 6 to hit he may immediately make an additional attack. These additional attacks do not benefit from Favored of Khorne. It also gives him a 4+ Ward Save.
Immortal Fury: Check page 93 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook


Zarakynel the Souleater- 666 points

M-10
WS-9
BS-0
S-6
T-6
W-6
I-10
A-7
LD-10

Weapons & Armor:
The Souleater Sword: Zarakynel never wounds on worse then a 4+ and ignore ward saves.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Large Target
Terror
Always Strikes First
Armor Piercing

Magic:
Zarakynel is a Level 4 wizard who uses Daemon Lore of Slaanesh.

Daemonic Gifts
Favored of Slaanesh: In combat Zarakynel always swings first, regardless of enemy rules and gives Zarakynel a 4+ Ward Save. This includes when Zarakynel charges another unit with Always Strikes First.
Siren Song: See page 94 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.
Soul Hunger: See page __ in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.


Scabeiathrax the Bloated- 777 points

M-6
WS-6
BS-0
S-6
T-6
W-10
I-3
A-5
LD-10

Weapons & Armor:
Flail of Decay: Flail. Scabieathrax has the Balesword Daemonic Gift.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Large Target
Terror
Regeneration

Magic:
Scabeiathrax is a Level 4 wizard who uses the Daemon Lore of Nurgle.

Daemonic Gifts:
Favored of Nurgle: Every enemy unit in base contact with Scabeiathrax takes D6 toughness test before the start of combat, distributed as shooting. Each model that fails a toughness test takes a wound with no armor save. For every failed test take an additional toughness test. Continue to do this until all toughness tests are passed or the unit is destroyed. Also Scabeiathrax recives a 4+ Ward Save.
Slime Trail: See page 94 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.
Noxious Vapors: See page __ in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.


My suggestions for more balanced at the given points. I kicked Unbreakable on all three, and brought down the T to be more reasonable for a fantasy game. I lowered An'groth's S but added Killing Blow, lowered Z's S and T but kept her at 6 wounds and added Soul Hunger, and tweaked Scabi's stuff around some: higher S, lower T, lower I, but added on Noxious Vapors. I don't think he should be overly high I, but if anyone should be giving off such noxious odors that people can't attack, it should be him. I also changed his weapon's ability to flail+Balesword as opposed to his 40k wound-doubling rule.

The result may have made Zarakynel a little too tame, though I think the other two are pretty in line with being bad ass, and with their point cost, without being ludicrous. But Zarakynel could certainly deal with things that are otherwise hard to get around... a -4 armor modifier and ignoring ward saves will put a lot of characters in the ground real fast.

That seams pretty good for all three. Zarakynel does seam tame in comparrison, but so does he/she/its 40K incarnation. THough he/she/it makes a fine character killer, while An'ggrath and Scabeiathrax seam better for units. Edit: Here is what I'm thinking for............

Aetaos`rau`keres Daemon Lord of Tzeentch-999

M-8
WS-6
BS-4
S-6
T-6
W-5
I-6
A-5
LD-10

Weapons & Amor:
Great Flaiming Staff of Sorcery: This gives him two additional power dice and an dispell dice.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Fly
Large Target
Terror

Magic:
Aetaos`rau`keres is a Level 4 wizard who knows the entire Daemon Lore of Tzeentch. In addition he may pick four additional spells from any of the eight main Lores in the Warhammer of Fantasy Rulebook.

Daemonic Gifts:
Favored of Tzeentch: Aetaos`rau`keres may allways re-roll any or all dice, must decide how many before re-rolling, whenever he atempts to cast or dispell a spell. This also gives him a 3+ Ward Save.
Wealth of Knowledge: Aetaos`rau`keres gains + 2 to all casting rolls.
Grand Magister: Whenever Aetaos`rau`keres gets a miscast immediatly roll a dice. One the roll of a 1-5 the miscast is ignored and treated simply as him failing the spell. On the roll of a six, however, Aetaos`rau`keres has called upon a great torent of magic even beyond his control. Aetaos`rau`keres and every unit within 12" immediatly takes D6 Strength 6 hits, that ignore armor saves.

I like it. (Of course, I'm a big fan of Kairos in Fantasy). My only complaint is really that he almost just feels like a Kairos with more rerolls. He's slightly stronger in that he can mix together 4 spells from any lores, rather than the heads restriction, but then he has less total spells than Kairos. I can't really think of a good alternative though. Certainly a list with him in one Lord slot and Kairos in another would be disgusting.

His casting would be absolutely unstoppable, but then that's to be expected. The only thing is, I dunno about rerolling all dice. With a 3+ ward he'd be almost invincible, he'd be surprisingly hardy in combat, and the big thing is that he could even use the rerolls for his spell results: Bolt of Change, 2d6 hits, taking rerolls if you don't like either or both numbers, S D6+4, rerolling if you don't like it, rolling to wound and rerolling if you roll 1's... it'd be nasty. Then he repeats. He'd make Conflagration of Doom ridiculous. Again, being ridiculous at magic is expected, particularly at the point cost, but as it is, he could walk off everything an army can throw at him, kill a quarter of it, walk everything off again, repeat. Maybe a limit on his rerolls? 5 per turn (or per player turn), but that he can choose to use after he's rolled the dice. It's very tactical, and is essentially a much more powerful version of Tzeentch's Will. But then, you're paying over 350 pts more than Kairos, so you should get some bang for your buck.

As an additional thought on Zarakynel, in the sense of being a hard character killer (a role the 40k version serves well too with the ignoring invuls), maybe add in some rule about how her challenges can't be declined, like Wulfrik in the WoC book. It could be some sort of hypnotic or alluring something. Then she'd be rightly feared by pretty much any but the hardiest characters (who have regen).

And in terms of the other two Daemons, Scabieathrax's combo of rules (particularly Vapors+Balesword+Flail+5A at WS6) would absolutely decimate most characters without a stout ward save/regen. As an alternate thought to Scabieathrax, his T test rule could get rid of the part about taking more in the initial fail, and instead each failed test generates a Nurgling base...could represent him infesting those nearby to birth out Nurglings. I like either version though.

What do you think of these redone verison of the Tzeentch and Slaanesh ones? I'm gonna leave Scabeiathrax the way he is, for now.

Aetaos`rau`keres Daemon Lord of Tzeentch-999

M-8
WS-6
BS-4
S-6
T-6
W-5
I-6
A-5
LD-10

Weapons & Amor:
Great Flaiming Staff of Sorcery: This gives him two additional power dice and an dispell dice.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Fly
Large Target
Terror

Magic:
Aetaos`rau`keres is a Level 4 wizard who knows the entire Daemon Lore of Tzeentch. In addition he may pick four additional spells from any of the eight main Lores in the Warhammer of Fantasy Rulebook.

Daemonic Gifts:
Favored of Tzeentch: Aetaos`rau`keres is allowed to re-roll 9 dice any turn. He may decided wether to use one of these, after seeing what the re-roll result would be. This also gives him a 3+ Ward Save.
Wealth of Knowledge: Aetaos`rau`keres gains + 2 to all casting rolls.
Grand Magister: Whenever Aetaos`rau`keres gets a miscast immediatly roll a dice. One the roll of a 1-5 the miscast is ignored and treated simply as him failing the spell. On the roll of a six, however, Aetaos`rau`keres has called upon a great torent of magic even beyond his control. Aetaos`rau`keres and every unit within 12" immediatly takes D6 Strength 6 hits, that ignore armor saves.


Zarakynel the Souleater- 666 points

M-10
WS-9
BS-0
S-6
T-6
W-6
I-10
A-7
LD-10

Weapons & Armor:
The Souleater Sword: Zarakynel never wounds on worse then a 4+ and ignore ward saves.

Special Rules:
Daemonic
Large Target
Terror
Always Strikes First
Armor Piercing

Magic:
Zarakynel is a Level 4 wizard who uses Daemon Lore of Slaanesh.

Daemonic Gifts
Hypnotic Stare: When Zarakynel issues a challenge he/she/it may force the enmy unit to acept as well as pick who they acept with.
Favored of Slaanesh: In combat Zarakynel always swings first, regardless of enemy rules and gives Zarakynel a 4+ Ward Save. This includes when Zarakynel charges another unit with Always Strikes First.
Siren Song: See page 94 in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.
Soul Hunger: See page __ in the Daemons of Chaos Armybook.