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I have entered an escalation campaign which is just starting this month. We begin at 500 points (0-1 Special, 0 Lord, 0 Rare) and work up from there. My first battle is against a Dark Elves player, and I was hoping for some advice on what to expect and how to counter it.

I am bringing the following:

Lvl 2 Warlock Engineer with Warpstone Condenscer
2x 20 Skaven Slaves
2x 20 Clanrats w/ Shields
-One Ratling Gun, one Warpfire Thrower

What would you bring as Dark Elves for 500 points? I have never played fantasy before other than an intro game, but I do quite well in 40k and am looking to have some fun.

Also, would you drastically change this list (is it ultra-vulnerable to Dark Elves)?

Thanks!

As a Skaven player, my prime worry with this list is the warpfire thrower. You have 4 close combat units and a template attack that shoots a random range that inflicts panic with 1 unsaved wound.

Second, you are a solid combat rez army. Clanrats cannot reliable kill even dark elves.

My suggestion would be to drop the Warpfire Thrower in exchange for a second ratling gun if you want the 2 teams. With the points gained, give both banners for a solid +5 starting CR (until the DE's start shooting). And for good measure use the last 4 points to give both slaves musicians or the generals unit a musician. Watching a tie go in your favor because you handed a slave a bell to ring is worth it. And fleeing from a charge to put your opponent out of position and trying to rally does not make the slaves go boom.

That being said, beware your opponent shredding units one at a time. If he is smart, he could have up to 3 turns to shred units with 2x repeaters. March everything forward as fast as possible and get thos ratters in side 18" for shooting on turn 2 and beware cold ones.

Finally, don't be "That guy". No slave conga lines. Block up, run forward, and kill for the horned rat.

My main plan is the run those units in pairs to get flank charging in. This works well in my head, but in the couple games I have played, it has been much more difficult (generally, someone with half a brain is not going to let multiple units charge one of their own in a single turn, and in single combat, I think that it would be hard to see them stay in for that 2nd round to have the flank charge come in next turn).

I am a big fan of warpfire throwers later, but I think the ratling guns are much much stronger at lower points.

I think the big difficulty I am having is what exactly to do with these blocks of troops, as I am generally having all my killing come from two guns and warp lightning arcing around the table.

I just noticed my math was off. The thrower swap saves you 15, not 20, points.
So it would be 1 banner and if you had a spare point, then 2 for the Clan rats.
I hadn't run the total on your list.

Do you have any idea how your opponent might play? Does he usually go magic or ranged heavy?

Points aren't a big issue, I can spill over but it costs 'campaign gold'. It'll just cost a lot to be running 600 points every game, for example.

Warpfire -> Ratling
+2 Banners
will make the total 510 points, easy to do.

I have no idea how he will be running his army, but I imagine something along the lines of:

Block of Spearmen
Repeater crossbows
Sorceress

That is how I would run it anyway. With the shots I am putting out, I imagine I will be able to break at least a unit before it reaches me, the charging and counters is what I have to prepare for.

If that is what your opponent is bringing to a 500pt fight, you should be very grateful he is leaving all the good things at home. You can easily fit Crossbow Riders, Cold One Knights, even a Hydra into a 500pt list. If you're using Warbands rules it's even easier since you don't waste points on a Hero, but it can be done even with one.

500 pts:
0-1 Hero
2+ Core
0-1 Special
0 Rare

750:
0-2 Special
Rest same

If I were running a 500 point DE force, I would give severe consideration to a minimum-size unit of Black Guard. I'd even see if I could scrape the points up for the Banner of Hag Graef (which gives ASF).

At that low point level, I don't know if I'd go for the sorceress. A master would give much better return on his points, I would think. Plus, if they are expecting to face lots of magic, the Ring of Hotek provides pretty solid magic defense (well... deterrant, really) at that level for only 25 points.

The good news is that with 0 Rares, you won't have to face a Hydra. Unless you got really lucky with your shooting, a hydra would tear through your force pretty easily. Of course, if he did take a hydra and you shot it down, he wouldn't have anything left to threaten you with...

You should also hope and pray that he does not bring Witch Elves to the party. 10 of them would chainsaw through your units. Shoot them as fast as you can.


Nothing about your build looks inherently vulnerable to the Dark Elves. Just shoot up his elite melee troops as fast as possible, and then try and smash what's left with numbers and SCR - you're not likely to win by generating kills, even against T3 elves.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about skaven, however if I was running a 500pt dark elf army and needed to have a hero level character to lead it, I would go fast, very fast.
2x5 dark riders w/ rxb
5x cold one knights
master on a cold one w/ ring of hotek. HA, lance, sea dragon cloak.
If I could go with a champion in the cold one unit for my leader that would free up points for more bodies. Or give them a full command and the banner of ASF with the ring still. I would be hugely outnumbered, but I could run around you all game until I pulled a unit out and flank charged with everything. I would also make sure I took out your guns and wizard first.

Boogeyman, that list would live up to your name against the OP's list. Yikes!

If you're going to run big blocks of troops for the static res, you'd be better off bringing a Chieftain for the Ld 6. That extra point makes all the difference in Skaven armies, especially once a unit starts to lose models. (a 20 man unit at 5x4 will go down to Ld 7 after just one casualty with their base leadership) Taking a Chieftain with a shield and a warlock-enhanced weapon gives you 4 S5 attacks, and is 28 points cheaper than the engineer you're running.

Fearspect wrote:That is how I would run it anyway. With the shots I am putting out, I imagine I will be able to break at least a unit before it reaches me, the charging and counters is what I have to prepare for.

What shots? You've got a ratling gun, a warpfire thrower, and an engineer. Any one of which can misfire. The first two are only range 18" (at most for the warpfire thrower) and move-or-fire. If he's smart, he'll sit at 24" and shoot you with repeaters. Your engineer will have a 24" magic missile, but if he brings a sorceress he'll have 3 dispell dice to throw at your 3 power dice every turn. If he brings a master with the ring of hotek, he'll shut down your whole magic phase.


Plague monks are very good for their points, and they ignore the biggest drawback Skaven have, which is their leadership. They're also very good in combat against units like dark elves, as their multitude of attacks against the elves will wound on 4s, and the elves will wound the monks on 5s.

If you're playing with Warbands rules, which it seems you are based on that FOC, you can't have both a ratling gun and a flame thrower as they both count as war machines and you can only take one. If you're just playing a modified 500pt FOC but no other extra rules then you're fine.

Does the DE list have to include a champion as a commander unit, like in Warbands?

It doesn't matter what they count as so long as they do not fill a rare slot.

What about Plague Mortars instead?

Get a big unit of rat ogres. Your dark elf player will most likely blast them with everything he got, so your other guys are pretty safe

As a Dark Elf player myself I would probably run something like this.

Master: Cold One, Lance, H.Arm, SDC, Shield, and Deathmask (Causes Terror) [or possibly Ring of Hotek/DeathPeicer(dropping reg. lance) instead of the mask]
Dark Riders(5): Repeater Crossbows
Repeater Crossbowmen(10)
Shades(7): Great Weapons

500pts exactly

Use the shades to pick off any potential warmachines or lone mages while harassing them from my lines with Xbowmen. Meanwhile have the Master and Darkriders advance to cause some mischief, possibly flank charge with Shades. I would probably pick the deathmask because causing terror is so much fun at low point games unless I know there will be a lot of ItP stuff at the tourney (ie undead and daemons.)