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So I'm signed up for the Adepticon Gladiator, and I've been flipping through some of the crazy things that can be fielded. Like the Hierophant...

How do you kill this thing in the 2k Gladiator?

The only thread I found on killing one of these was back when it still had mass points and slightly different rules.

He uses the Apocalypse rules pg 148. WS9 BS3 S10 T9 W10 I3 A8 LD10 Sv 2+. Shoots up to 16 S10 shots, has regenerate for those 10 wounds, and a bunch of annoying little rules too. Plus with the new Tyranid dex this thing now has the new 3+ Warp Field....

Seriously... how do you kill this thing?

Budzerker wrote:
Seriously... how do you kill this thing?

Take a Reaver Titan with 2 Laser Blasters and a Turbo Laser on the Carapace for 8 SD shots per turn.

Outside of that, you want to stack as many S8+ shots as you can. TH/SS Terminators w/ Chaplains can work if you can constantly keep charging it.

There is some discussion about whether or not it benefits from the new Warp Field rule. That rule is for the Zoa and its not a Psychic Power. (page 44 of Tyranid codex)
There is also the issue that non-damaging Psychic Powers can't affect GCs. (page 91 of apoc book)

Can you take a Reaver Titan at the Adepticon Gladiator?

It's late and I'm tired, but I didn't see it on the Imperial Units list:

http://www.adepticon.org/10rules/201040KIAApoc.pdf

No Reavers in Gladiator this year.
RAW it does not benefit from Warp Field. I do not know if the INAT FAQ will change this.
If it has a 2+/3++...it's going to be almost impossible to kill. I really see no realistic way to bring it down short of An'graath in the Fateweaver bubble (within the Gladiator rules).

What does a Wraithguard Wraithcannon do to Gargantuan figures?

and army of rune priest casting Jaws of the Wolf.


OR


8 Swarmlords

The Slaaneshi 666 point Daemon will wipe it out without effort, and Kairos can escort it in so it doesn't get shot down. Should get a round 1 or 2 charge with all the lashing.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:What does a Wraithguard Wraithcannon do to Gargantuan figures?

Nothing. GC are immune to ID.

Clthomps wrote:and army of rune priest casting Jaws of the Wolf.

GC are immune to Psychic Powers w/out a strength value.

8 Swarmlords

Gladiator uses normal Force Org.

40kenthusiast wrote:The Slaaneshi 666 point Daemon will wipe it out without effort, and Kairos can escort it in so it doesn't get shot down. Should get a round 1 or 2 charge with all the lashing.

The Hierophant will pour enough shots into it that it won't be able to get enough rounds in to get through a 2+/3++.

If it doesn't have the 3++, it's easy. Anything S8+ AP2 or power will smack it down.

40kenthusiast wrote:The Slaaneshi 666 point Daemon will wipe it out without effort, and Kairos can escort it in so it doesn't get shot down. Should get a round 1 or 2 charge with all the lashing.

Kairos will get swarmed under by the rest of the army, so I would not count on him.

The immune to psychic powers is the killer. If I could have Doomed them, I think I can drop them.

By the way, they can’t be locked in combat, so if you plan on killing them in assault, they are free to leave.


I hope that there are 2 creatures that will follow the Reaver titian into being banned next year.

I posted my first Adepticon Gladiator list to my blog and I was wondering how I would handle the 2 heavy hitters An'ggorath and Hierophant.

The important stats of the Hierophant is 10 wounds, 9 toughness, and 2+ save.

The stats of An’ggorath is 8 wounds, 8 toughness, and 2+/4+ save.

Those 2 are brutes that take a ton of firepower to bring down. For example: 27 lascannon shots at BS4 to bring down the giant bug.

I planned on moving around An’ggorath and hitting him with a lot of bright lances, and he can really only kill one unit a turn.

Hierophant is a lot tougher. He can shoot 16 shots at strength 10 and AP3. So he is wiping out your army while you are trying to take him down.

Are they immune to poison? If not, then mass prefered enemy poison attacks from the new nids should hurt them pretty bad, seeing as you need to kill them in 1 assault phase. Though, i suppose it would take 72 hormies to get the job done in one phase... 3 broods of 30 poison hormies = 720 points.

Epidimus boosted nurgling swarms may also work.

Failing that, was it FAQed that gift of chaos from daemons doesnt spawn them?

I'm not sure about the adepticon rules, but surely with the amount of points those things cost you'll be best off taking out the (likely few) scoring units and praying for a draw?

otherwise, as has been said, I'd recommend tons of lascannons and krak missiles...

Grey Knight Grand Master.

Man, I would love to pull that one off. The look of your opponent's face when you tell him that his Bio-Titan was one-hit-killed would be spectacular!

DevianID wrote:Are they immune to poison? If not, then mass prefered enemy poison attacks from the new nids should hurt them pretty bad, seeing as you need to kill them in 1 assault phase. Though, i suppose it would take 72 hormies to get the job done in one phase... 3 broods of 30 poison hormies = 720 points.

Epidimus boosted nurgling swarms may also work.

Failing that, was it FAQed that gift of chaos from daemons doesnt spawn them?

Posion effects work, but are modified to only wound gargantuan creatures on a 6...

Elric of Grans wrote:Grey Knight Grand Master.

Man, I would love to pull that one off. The look of your opponent's face when you tell him that his Bio-Titan was one-hit-killed would be spectacular!

From the Gargantuan Creature Rules: "All gargantuan creatures are immune to the Instant Death rule. [new sentence:] In addition, because they are so large and powerful, they are not affected by ANY attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a Force Weapon, an attack that kills as a result of failed characterisitc test, etc.)."

So they are immune to ID of all types. Regular ID, all force weapons, any power that kills on a stat test (spawn, jaws, etc).

The only thing I can think of to put a dent in this guy is a crap-ton of TH/SS terminators...

Other than that I got nothing...

DO they have to take difficult or dangerous terrain tests? Or are dangerous counted as difficult, and they pretend difficult isn't even there?

Blackmoor wrote:
By the way, they can’t be locked in combat, so if you plan on killing them in assault, they are free to leave.

Well, unles you're another gargantuan... Seriously, the Slaanesh girl can do it. Heirophant may be immune to psychic powers, but she can warptime herself, always wounds on a 4+ and ignores both of its saves.

I posted my first Adepticon Gladiator list to my blog and I was wondering how I would handle the 2 heavy hitters An'ggorath and Hierophant.
...
The stats of An’ggorath is 8 wounds, 8 toughness, and 2+/4+ save.

An'ggorath is a waste in the gladiator. I ran him last year, just for fun. No army with him in it will win. He's too easy to simply ignore. Assuming he's in the daemon's first wave, he gets a few assault phases. He can't lock up, and can't sweeping advance. He doesn't ignore invul saves, so he has issues with other daemons, seers, and thunderhammer dudes. He's hard pressed to make his points back in a lot of matchups, and really not worth it.

What makes the heirophant (and reaver, and possibly the new tzeentch daemon lord) good is that they don't rely on combat to do their killing.

I think the new Tzeentch daemon has some potential in the right list. He's got the high toughness/many wounds -/3+ save thing going for him. He can fire a ton of random effects off, as most of his daemonic gifts are altered. Example - his wind of chaos is a flame template, so he can turn entire units into chaos spawn, if necessary. His bolt of Tzeentch is a large blast. He runs with an apoc barrage attack too. Possibly even more importantly, he can make new scoring units every turn, which can be a huge advantage in the gladiator.

But, like all the daemon lords, in a four game tournament, there will be one game where he won't bother to show up until turn 4. That's a ton of points to leave sidelined.

look at the space marine titan hammer formation. that should make you smile..

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180071_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Terminator_Titanhammer_Squads.pdf

other than that lascannons (go IG) would be a good idea

Cambak wrote:DO they have to take difficult or dangerous terrain tests? Or are dangerous counted as difficult, and they pretend difficult isn't even there?

They are affected by terrain. You roll just as you would for a normal monstrous creature, but double the result.

Redbeard wrote:

Well, unles you're another gargantuan... Seriously, the Slaanesh girl can do it. Heirophant may be immune to psychic powers, but she can warptime herself, always wounds on a 4+ and ignores both of its saves.

I don't know. If your wounding a gargantuan creature with the help of warptime I'd say that's a psychic power that's affecting said creature. Which they are immune to.

The Angry Commissar wrote:look at the space marine titan hammer formation. that should make you smile..

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180071_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Terminator_Titanhammer_Squads.pdf

No formations/data sheets are used in the Gladiator.

Epidemus daemons with 20 tally do it easily (Each attack will be hitting on 4's (apart from DP), wounding on 2's and ignorong armour so each attack = 43.3ish so aronud 20 attacks which would be very easy to get.
Rending would also ruin his day (for instance 20 charging daemonettes with transfixing gaze (running at 285 pts would deal 5 wounds for raound 3 or 4 in return and they go first.

O'shovah wrote:Epidemus daemons with 20 tally do it easily (Each attack will be hitting on 4's (apart from DP), wounding on 2's and ignorong armour so each attack = 43.3ish so aronud 20 attacks which would be very easy to get.
Rending would also ruin his day (for instance 20 charging daemonettes with transfixing gaze (running at 285 pts would deal 5 wounds for raound 3 or 4 in return and they go first.

Tally doesn't work. Wounding on 2's (aka Noxious Touch) are poisoned attacks. As specified earlier poisoned attacks wound on 6s only against gargantuan creatures.

As for Daemonettes (assuming the squad gets into combat undamaged): 80 attacks, 40 hit, they must rend so that's 6.67 rending wounds, 5.67 get through with old warp field. That's pretty good. However, the question now becomes does the Hierophant get the new Warp Field. If he does, he will shrug off the nette's. Even if he doesn't, and you cause 6 (5.67) wounds, gargantuan cretures stomp attacks each model in you squad. So 20 attacks, 13.33 hits, 11.11 wounds, 7.41 dead daemonettes. He wins combat, you fail another save. He regenerates a wound next turn, then leaves combat and other members of his army shoot you up.

EDIT: I also forgot his spore cloud. This would wound half the remaining daemonettes. So with 13 left thats 6.5 wounded, 4.5 more dead nette's

However, a daemonette swarm could do the trick. Two 20girl squads would down him (without new warp-field).

One way may be a warhound with his D weapon templates. The rest of the Tyranid army gets no invul save minus the Zoanthropes so the D templates will wipe out the other 1000 points of the army leaving the Heirophant on his own. Still may be a beast to take down, but probably wont win many scenerios on his own unless he wipes you out.

I have never played Apoc with one of those things, but shouldn't Boon of Mutation transform that thing into a spawn? It is not a psychic attack, nor does it kill the model, it transforms it. Dont know how many others have played boon of mutation Vs the Heirophant.

Fighting it in melee would be rough. THe scything talons plus Lash whip means he gets rerolls to hit and your unit goes at I1. I dont think the T. Hammer SS termies are a viable option.

There could be lists that have 9 Vendettas and a Warhound, that could be enough D weapons and Lascannons to drop its wounds low enough to kill it in two turns. Just hope it doesnt take out your stuff first.

If anyone knows if Boon works on a Heirophant, let me know, thanks.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:One way may be a warhound with his D weapon templates. The rest of the Tyranid army gets no invul save minus the Zoanthropes so the D templates will wipe out the other 1000 points of the army leaving the Heirophant on his own. Still may be a beast to take down, but probably wont win many scenerios on his own unless he wipes you out.

I have never played Apoc with one of those things, but shouldn't Boon of Mutation transform that thing into a spawn? It is not a psychic attack, nor does it kill the model, it transforms it. Dont know how many others have played boon of mutation Vs the Heirophant.

Fighting it in melee would be rough. THe scything talons plus Lash whip means he gets rerolls to hit and your unit goes at I1. I dont think the T. Hammer SS termies are a viable option.

There could be lists that have 9 Vendettas and a Warhound, that could be enough D weapons and Lascannons to drop its wounds low enough to kill it in two turns. Just hope it doesnt take out your stuff first.

If anyone knows if Boon works on a Heirophant, let me know, thanks.

I agree that you should focus fire the rest of his army down, to win the mission. But going back to the topic of this thread, how to kill him?

As I posted above, no characteristic-check kills work. So no boon.

He can fire at multiple targets, and with two guns firing 8 S10 shots, he can down 2 Vendetta Squads in one turn. Against a Titan he would drop 2 void shields, glance and pen it in one round of fire. Personally I'd shoot the Vendettas as they are firing a greater quantity of damaging shots, then charge the Titan (he can also charge a separate unit). Or shoot and charge the Titan to kill it.

Also, when I said TH/SS Termies could work I meant a crap-ton. With Vulkan, and 10 termies (and the charge) the termies swing 30 times, hit 22.5 times with the re-roll, and cause 7.5 wounds. So it would take more than 1 squad to bring him down. However, again we come back to if he has the new warp-field. If so, your screwed no matter what you throw at him.

Since the Gladiator is a 4 game tournament, my question is how would 20 demonettes do against the rest of the field?

As far as the Gigantic Slaanesh Demonette goes, I think she can use warp time because it affects her, and not the Hierophant, but I would think that she can just be shot down by the 16, strength-10 shooting attacks.


As someone said above, the Gladiator usually has one mission that is nicknamed "screw the big ones" where if you take a giant point-sink model it get neutralized by the mission, although last years mission was rather tame. Last years "screw the big ones" mission I think had one model with a vortex grenade, the year before it they had a mission where you can put one of your opponents models into reserve and it comes on board turn #4. But if you are facing one, I would not count on the missions saving you.

I would also like to see other ways to kill them rather than just bringing your own gigantic creature.

Let's do some quick mathhammer:
10 Fire Dragons= 3.33 wounds.

10 Harlequins=3.33 wounds.

10 Thunderhammer Stormshield Terminators=5 Wounds, but getting them into assault will be hard. And remember that the Hierophant can just leave combat.

10 Lascannon shots= 2.5 wounds, and brightlances are worse.


So I can't figure out a good way to kill them. But as Just Dave said, you might want to kill the troops, and try to keep your troops alive and if you do not get the win, at least get the tie.

How far can the bio Titan move and charge? I think it's 12" and 12" but not so sure. There are definitely some ways to bring it down but I don't want to reveal my plan. Also what is the bio titan's initiative?

G

Its I 3

If this thing has a 3++, then the only way to kill it will be the big slaanesh daemon with warptime.

That being said, if your list can't kill it, then you are probably better off just killing everything else, and leaving the bio titan alone. But, since this thing has sooo much shooting, and a HUGE assault distance, this might be pretty hard.

I to am registered for the gladiator, and I am starting to thing that the smartest thing to do in order to survive fighting the giant stuff is to just take a bunch of little stuff, so the big baddies can never make their points back.

Weapons that cause ID do D3 wounds instead. So a Wraithguard has a 60% chance of wounding. A one turn Kill would require 16 Wraithguard. Alternatively, an Eldar Scorpion would do 6 wounds per round.

Large squads of snipers would also work.

3 TL Lascannon + Powerfist Dreads
3 Predator Annihilators
Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles

Easy

For all that are suggesting snipers: They (like poison weapons) also only wound gargantuan creatures on 6's.

You know you could kill the rest of the army considering he is going to spend 1250 points on the monster. Its not like its weapons are D weapons and it mostly relies on its Toughness 9 and crap ton of wounds to survive. Most of the missions in the gladiator are still objective based and short of tabling you, if you can kill the troops you can win the game. Then again the gladiator has now turned into who can spend the most on FW to win.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Also what is the bio titan's initiative?

It has a Lash Whip, so you are I1 when in Base to Base. It also has Toxic Miasma, so toughness tests for models in combat with it, a Spore Cloud (5+ Cover, Defensive Grenades) and Regenerate (with enough wounds for this to possibly matter).

Lighter fluid + lighter

I really can't think of something that can reliably take it down other then just masses of th/ss termies