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So I think we talked about this before, but what do people think.

21 Seaguard with full command, Shields and Warbanner

vs

21 Spears with full command and Warbanner + 5 Reavers

It comes out to about the same. I mean Sea Guard get bows and of course they can even shoot in three ranks if they are on higher ground. Or at large targets. But hey five Reavers. Or whatever you want to spend the points on.

So I was thinking that and then a block 5 wide with a General and ranks. I think we also talked about High Elf Spears 7 wide vs 5 wide but I am more interested in hearing about what people think about taking the bows. I mean hey it is five Reavers.

Generally speaking, going wider than 5 files opens yourself up to losing more models in CC. You will also lose your rank bonus quicker (which is why us Skaven players have ranks disappearing into the distance, but maintaining a frontage of 5 files).

Seaguard are a difficult unit to get right, because of the whole missile weapon thing. Personally, I favour a block of twenty with 1 turn of shooting in a wide formation and then reforming to 5 files by 4 ranks to receive a charge.

I think it depends on what else is in the army- but I'd probably go with the spears. And I'd really consider 7 wide, since you're ASF, fight in 3 ranks. Being squishy, any chance you have to reduce return attacks seems like a good call.

RZ

Just to note, Sea Guards can't shoot from three ranks even from a High Ground.
Or have I just missed something?

How wide your frontage should be always come down to 1 question: "Do you expect to win by damage or static res?"

My experience against HE spearmen has been that want the ranks and not the frontage. It seems good to get the numbers of ASF off, but you still have the whole problem of only being S3. It not only means your to-wound rolls will rarely get better than a 4+ (often 5+), but also that you aren't doing anything to reduce armor. For spearmen, 5-wide to max ranks is usually the better bet.

Admittedly I've never seen seaguard in action, so can't attest to whether or not they mitigate the problem of being S3 or if they have other issues.

Flashman wrote:Generally speaking, going wider than 5 files opens yourself up to losing more models in CC. You will also lose your rank bonus quicker (which is why us Skaven players have ranks disappearing into the distance, but maintaining a frontage of 5 files).

Seaguard are a difficult unit to get right, because of the whole missile weapon thing. Personally, I favour a block of twenty with 1 turn of shooting in a wide formation and then reforming to 5 files by 4 ranks to receive a charge.

Red_Zeke wrote:I think it depends on what else is in the army- but I'd probably go with the spears. And I'd really consider 7 wide, since you're ASF, fight in 3 ranks. Being squishy, any chance you have to reduce return attacks seems like a good call.

RZ

I have long advocated the 21 spearelf block, it was good even in the old edition. High elves cannot afford ranks that stand around it costs too much. Dumb rank bonus is for others. 21 is perfect as it concentrates spears, everyone gets a poke and with ASF you get to cause more casualties, thus reducing pressure on your front rank.

There is another advantage not yet raised. You get US 21, which is one more than the standard 5x4 block of 20, so elves or not you have a good chance of getting +1 outnumbering too. Yes yes, many units go 5x5 or bigger, but elves cannot compete with that, but 5x4 is common enough that you squeeze in an extra +1 CR fairly often.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tacobake wrote:So I think we talked about this before, but what do people think.

21 Seaguard with full command, Shields and Warbanner

vs

21 Spears with full command and Warbanner + 5 Reavers

It comes out to about the same. I mean Sea Guard get bows and of course they can even shoot in three ranks if they are on higher ground. Or at large targets. But hey five Reavers. Or whatever you want to spend the points on.

So I was thinking that and then a block 5 wide with a General and ranks. I think we also talked about High Elf Spears 7 wide vs 5 wide but I am more interested in hearing about what people think about taking the bows. I mean hey it is five Reavers.

Seaguard vs spearelves.

You have to look at the files, each is normally deployed in three ranks. The cost difference per file is enough to pay for an archer. So a file of spearelves plus archer equals a file of seaguard, each generates one bowshot. On those lines there is no point in having seaguard unless you make them a flexible formation.

Keep seaguard in a single rank, or two on a hill if you can find one, then reform the turn before you expect to enter combat. Idf you are not reforming ranks you are not getting any advantage from seaguard. Unlike spearelves you do not want to be sticking yourself to a single formation, 7x3 is optimal if you dont have bows.

Other than seaguard in flex formation High Elves ought not to be bothering with massed archery, it costs far too much for the patter of S3 shots you get. Saving shooting for bolt throwers and the Reaver Bow.

Im not a fan of seaguard. I think they are adopting to many roles and because of which arent really catering to any of them appropriatly.

Id defninatly run the spears and the reavers for same points. Far more flexible and have very distinct roles. I personally find seaguard a sloppy option.