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 RED EYE JEDI wrote:
5 days for the new bikes

I cant wait, but I have an AI exam on the 28th so I need to revise not paint :(

Just in time to hear "nah bro thats ok, I dont want to play a game right now" then 10 minutes later you see him playing against a space marine army.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Wait, wait, wait. You played a game against a list you and everyone else have had 2 years to learn to overcome and adapt to. And because you can beat said list with Necrons it needs to be buffed?

No. No no no. That is terrible reasoning.

Hey guys, I played against this thing that I've learned how to beat over the last two years and beat it, therefore let's buff the ever living crap out of it.

Assuming you know this buddy and have known him for a while...odds are he uses a similar if not the same list for every game or so.
His codex doesn't need a buff. He needs to switch things up. That's sort of how a meta works, regardless of what it's in...

OK, they've learned how to beat X. Y looks interesting. Let's throw Y in and see if they can deal with that.

Well excuse me sir. I've played against his Eldar once before with my Crons, and it was in a 2v2. So no, I don't play his list very often. I also used some things I don't normally use (Wraiths, Destroyers, bunch of footslog infantry) And also, he was only using a single Wraithknight (with suncannon) and 2 Wave serpents. Otherwise he played Aspects, which is what he loves. My reasoning is that except for Wave Serpents being stupid and the Wraithknight being difficult for some armies to kill, Eldar don't have that much over anyone else currently. They're infantry are squishy and cost as much as Necron infantry most of the time, if not more. And a lot of people like to play like that. So, the Aspects getting cool new rules, and some buffs here and there isn't a bad thing. Plus, the Serpents got toned down.

Hell, he plays Footdar quite often. So, it getting a buff isn't a bad thing, as I'm sure a lot of other people would agree. Plus, let's take into consideration if he was using the new codex, the Wraithknight he was using would be the same, and if he was using the Wraithcannons, he wouldn't have an invuln, and then my wraiths would've eaten him up anyway. Then, lets say he barreled down the field in a Serpent with some Wraithguard. They would've disembarked and kill one unit, most likely, then would've died horribly, and not made their points back.

All I'm saying is, it's not the end of the world, and Eldar getting a buff in some areas isn't a bad thing. And the other things (Wraithguard, and other D weapons) isn't going to be much of a threat if you know how to play the game correctly.

 krodarklorr wrote:


Well excuse me sir. I've played against his Eldar once before with my Crons, and it was in a 2v2. So no, I don't play his list very often.

You're the one who used the term 'buddy'. Plus, if he's a 'buddy' I would assume you keep regular contact with him. You probably see other games he plays. You probably know what he fields. 'Buddy' implies that he's a friend and thus that you game with him on a fairly regular basis. You can learn his playstyle by watching, by knowing what he fields.

I also used some things I don't normally use (Wraiths, Destroyers, bunch of footslog infantry) And also, he was only using a single Wraithknight (with suncannon) and 2 Wave serpents. Otherwise he played Aspects, which is what he loves. My reasoning is that except for Wave Serpents being stupid and the Wraithknight being difficult for some armies to kill, Eldar don't have that much over anyone else currently. They're infantry are squishy and cost as much as Necron infantry most of the time, if not more. And a lot of people like to play like that. So, the Aspects getting cool new rules, and some buffs here and there isn't a bad thing. Plus, the Serpents got toned down.

So you did know what he was fielding. Aspects, which you claim he 'loves'. And you brought things you normally don't use which conveniently enough excel at slaughtering infantry wholesale (Wraiths, Destroyers....really?). If I was a Necron player, facing an Aspect heavy footdar list I too would bring Destroyers. S5, AP3 and 2 shots on a fast moving platform? Why, yes, thank you.

Yes, their infantry is squishy. No one here was saying 'Eldar infantry are a problem'. No one here was saying 'Eldar infantry broke the meta'. You even acknowledge the wave serpent being a problem...so you must be aware of what the conversation here is about, right? You're the first one I've seen bring in Eldar infantry.

But let's stick with that. Eldar infantry is lacklustre. Banshees are unimpressive. Are they so unimpressive that they need the rumoured cover ignoring, Overwatch immune, -2 Ld Fear test, Exarch capable of denying an enemy weapon buffs? Because god damn, if the issue of a S3 Power Weapon unit that has always been fragile is to make it capable of ignoring every threat to it for free then I really, really can't wait for Tyranids to be redone. Genestealers will be fething amazing if we keep with that logic. I for one look forward to my Genestealers to become 8 point models with a 24 inch assault range and SD, D6+6 attack melee capabilities. Hot damn.

Hell, he plays Footdar quite often. So, it getting a buff isn't a bad thing, as I'm sure a lot of other people would agree. Plus, let's take into consideration if he was using the new codex, the Wraithknight he was using would be the same, and if he was using the Wraithcannons, he wouldn't have an invuln, and then my wraiths would've eaten him up anyway. Then, lets say he barreled down the field in a Serpent with some Wraithguard. They would've disembarked and kill one unit, most likely, then would've died horribly, and not made their points back.

Your friend is an oddity. Your friend is not something that crops up in competitive or semi-competitive environments. The Wraithknight he was using would NOT be the same. Let's get this straight right now. It would gain FNP for free, only be affected by Poison on a 6, would have a 12 inch move as base and would have Stomp. D3 Stomps. And if one of those templates rolls a 6 on the chart? Pop goes the wraiths. No saves. A single unit of Wraithguard in a Serpent is not a problem. But the meta has never been about single units now, has it?

Look at the Meta lists. People field multiples of the same effective unit. It's the same as most card games. Sure, you could build a MtG deck that consists of one of everything. It'll fall down horribly. You could make it from the most broken and OP expansion set imaginable. It would still do poorly. But the top tier decks are the ones that spam multiples to increase their chances of combos. And that's what 40k is. Spam multiple of Unit X for profit.

Now, if these units were crap in the previous codex? Fair enough. GW cash grab. To be expected. But these units weren't crap. These units were already quite popular and utilised quite a bit. So no one is really having to go out of their way to get them. A lot of these units were staple in competitive lists in one edition or the other.

All I'm saying is, it's not the end of the world, and Eldar getting a buff in some areas isn't a bad thing. And the other things (Wraithguard, and other D weapons) isn't going to be much of a threat if you know how to play the game correctly.

Everyone take a shot. He finished on a 'L2P' statement.

I think less than a page back people pointed out the ridiculousness that the only defense for some of these buffs was 'Learn to Play'. Because clearly knowing how to play clearly makes all the difference when one ancient master is armed with a wooden sword and the other has a full nuclear arsenal. Of course.

Easy to tell someone it's all skill when the deck is now stacked in your favour.

Requizen wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'd love some photographs of the unit entries. Seems like we had them by now for the Necrons. I'd like to put this whole: "Wait for the actual codex" and "I'll believe it when I see it" line of arguments to rest.

They will suddenly merge into

"Wait you have not played it" especially whilst I keep wining games with ease

then

"Well we just need time to adjust" especially whilst I keep wining games with ease

to

"have to wait for the FAQs" especially whilst I keep wining games with ease

then after a couple of years of this............

- "oh its nearly time for a new codex so we shouldn't change it" - especially whilst I keep wining games

That's what happened with Serpents - as the Cylons say - "its happened before and it will happen before"

I dunno. This is clearly the new proposed power level of the game from GW. I play Necrons and, while I don't agree with everyone that the Decurion is destroyer in the game, the new Necron book was very obviously designed with a new tier of power in mind. 4+ Reanimates that can only be ignored by S: D, insane durability in most of the book having T5 and/or multiple wounds, and Formation bonuses that were straight up jaw-dropping when they came out. While Skitarii and Khorne Daemonkin weren't anything standoutish (other than Daemonkin being a straight up improvement to any fluffy Khorne Daemon/CSM allied lists), they're also not full army books. Heck, while DEldar and Harlies weren't on the level of Craftworld Eldar, they had some really nasty things in their pockets. I would not be surprised to see the next round of "big" Codices be on this level.

You put too much faith into the forward thinking of the design team. With 3 or 4 books per month coming out, they're turning these things around in 7 days or less. No time for playtesting at all. The relative power level is pretty much random nowadays.

I dont know if this has been posted already but I found some info about the Phoenix lords .

Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.

Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6″ get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.

Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves. Mandiblaster wounds on 2+/4+

Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.

Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6″ are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.

Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5″ marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Everyone take a shot. He finished on a 'L2P' statement.

I think less than a page back people pointed out the ridiculousness that the only defense for some of these buffs was 'Learn to Play'. Because clearly knowing how to play clearly makes all the difference when one ancient master is armed with a wooden sword and the other has a full nuclear arsenal. Of course.

Easy to tell someone it's all skill when the deck is now stacked in your favour.

Okay fine, my opinions are invalidated. Say what you will. In my meta, we have few Eldar players, and they're very respectable. If they wanna bring a strong list, we'll bring a similar list and have a fun game. If not, we'll adapt our lists as well. And I didn't know what he was bringing against me. He likes Footdar, yes, but he rarely uses Serpents. And he figured, since it is Newcrons, he should probably bring a few, and use his Wraithknight. I said bring it on. And with the new codex, the same list he just played wouldn't have gotten any better, at all. In fact his firepower would've decreased since the Serpent shield was fired quite a few times that game.

I'm not accusing people of "L2P". I'm just saying, think tactically, assess his current threats, focus what needs to be fired at first, and think of positioning of your units. This isn't new to anyone, but it's simple things like that in the face of a new "OP" codex that will help you out. It's tactics like that that has allowed my Nids (I use Warriors, Primes, gaunts, and other various MCS, I don't spam Lictors or Flyrants) to defeat Tau every time I've gone up against them, even though I should've lost.

So, don't mind me then. I'm simply saying Eldar will not dominate any more than they did, if anything, probably less. But we'll see in a few weeks.

 Capamaru wrote:
I dont know if this has been posted already but I found some info about the Phoenix lords .

Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.

Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6″ get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.

Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves. Mandiblaster wounds on 2+/4+

Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.

Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6″ are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.

Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5″ marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.

Thanks, can you tell us what ranged weapon Asurmen has? I think it changed slightly between 5th and 6th from two wristmounted to 1 but I could be wrong.

 agnosto wrote:

Are you being obtuse or just missing the point? Stomps are not something that you should just take out of the complete assault picture because they don't happen in a vacuum. Nothing to my knowledge just has stomp attacks ergo, it's ridiculous to simply say that stomps are unreliable as they don't happen alone, singular, outside of the other things that occur as part of the entire assault phase.

You made my point for me in the second section of your post. By your reasoning, all attacks are unreliable because you have to roll to hit and then to wound and then you don't know if your opponent will make one of several saving options so you estimate what your damage will be. That's the nature of the game and when you're using a model with a stomp attack, you don't just look at the stomp and say, "gee, I better not assault because if I just get one stomp, I won't do hardly any damage", no, you're thinking, "Ok, I've got a shot at a wound with HoW, then my 5 attacks, then possibly 1-3 stomps afterwards." Notice, 1-3 stomps...at least one. So, in my example, I'm basically getting at least 2 auto-hits, one from the HoW and one from a stomp (possibly 2 more if I roll well). An average of 2 stomps per turn which gives me an average 2 in 12 chance for a 6. Those are not crappy odds from a freebie at the end of assault.

Anyway, think what you like. It's quite possible we're talking past each other here anyway. Cheers.

Indeed, it's possible we're talking past each other, though I'd posit that your original post indicates that you knew exactly my point: that you can't rely on getting the 6 on the Stomp chart. You can rely on getting a couple S6 AP4 templates, and that's what I'd figure as the average on any SHW/GC charge: I get my HoW, my attacks +1, and at the end of combat (and pile-in moves) I can expect a specific number of Stomp hits at S6 AP4 (which will probably not be incredibly damaging to things that can ignore its AP).

If I'm gonna charge an IK at a unit of Terminators, for example, I'll figure I probably won't kill one with HoW, I'll kill one or two with regular attacks, and then its down to Stomps. And I can't rely on that 6 wiping them out; I can expect maybe one Termie to die to Stomp a turn, depending on how many there are under the template, etc. In subsequent rounds, I can expect to kill about one or two Terminators a turn consistently.

If they've got Powerfists, I'm probably safe. If they've got Chainfists, the 3-4 that survive my initial charge will be hitting me... 3-4 times, and I can expect to lose 2-3 Hull Points as a result. If I eyeball the math real quick before I make that charge, I can figure out that if I don't get lucky with Stomps, there's a fair chance that I'll either get destroyed in that combat, or that I'll stagger out with only 1-2 HP remaining. And I can't count on getting lucky with Stomps, because they're unreliable vs high durability models like Terminators.

Similarly, if I were to charge an IK at, say, a Bloothirster of Insensate Rage figuring I would be able to kill it with my D weapon, I'd be an idiot. Between my 5+ to hit it, and its 5 wounds and 5++ save, it will very probably survive that first set of swings on my part, because even with my D weapon, the odds are very much against me rolling that 6. At which point its WS10 vs my WS4, and its D weapon, will almost certainly carve me apart in short order, because with its 3+ to hit and 6 attacks, plus the difference between MCs and Vehicles, it's pretty much guaranteed to take 6 HP off me without needing that 6 on the D weapon table. Now, I Might be able to pick up the spare with Stomps, but again, the odds are against me.

Incidentally, just to keep this vaguely on topic, the odds of a WK w/ D Sword vs BoIR are not much different in HtH. If you don't soften it up some with shooting, you're basically gambling on that 6, and that's not usually a good gamble when you're only hitting on 5+.

Stomp isn't a freebie. It's (in theory at least, this is GW we're talking about) calculated into the points of the model. Unless you're a Wraithknight, apparently.

 Skerr wrote:

 Capamaru wrote:
I dont know if this has been posted already but I found some info about the Phoenix lords .

Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.

Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6″ get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.

Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves. Mandiblaster wounds on 2+/4+

Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.

Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6″ are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.

Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5″ marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.

Thanks, can you tell us what ranged weapon Asurmen has? I think it changed slightly between 5th and 6th from two wristmounted to 1 but I could be wrong.

I dont know the answer to that but all these abilities are on top of a normals exarch's abilities so I guess Karandras is really scary in CC.

 Skerr wrote:

Thanks, can you tell us what ranged weapon Asurmen has? I think it changed slightly between 5th and 6th from two wristmounted to 1 but I could be wrong.

No, you're right. In the 4th ed book, his gun was Assault 4; in the 6th ed book they changed it to Assault 2 Twin-Linked, because you really need to reroll to hit when you're already rerolling a 2+/5+.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Everyone take a shot. He finished on a 'L2P' statement.

I think less than a page back people pointed out the ridiculousness that the only defense for some of these buffs was 'Learn to Play'. Because clearly knowing how to play clearly makes all the difference when one ancient master is armed with a wooden sword and the other has a full nuclear arsenal. Of course.

Easy to tell someone it's all skill when the deck is now stacked in your favour.

Okay fine, my opinions are invalidated. Say what you will. In my meta, we have few Eldar players, and they're very respectable. If they wanna bring a strong list, we'll bring a similar list and have a fun game. If not, we'll adapt our lists as well. And I didn't know what he was bringing against me. He likes Footdar, yes, but he rarely uses Serpents. And he figured, since it is Newcrons, he should probably bring a few, and use his Wraithknight. I said bring it on. And with the new codex, the same list he just played wouldn't have gotten any better, at all. In fact his firepower would've decreased since the Serpent shield was fired quite a few times that game.

I'm not accusing people of "L2P". I'm just saying, think tactically, assess his current threats, focus what needs to be fired at first, and think of positioning of your units. This isn't new to anyone, but it's simple things like that in the face of a new "OP" codex that will help you out. It's tactics like that that has allowed my Nids (I use Warriors, Primes, gaunts, and other various MCS, I don't spam Lictors or Flyrants) to defeat Tau every time I've gone up against them, even though I should've lost.

So, don't mind me then. I'm simply saying Eldar will not dominate any more than they did, if anything, probably less. But we'll see in a few weeks.

You are correct. Most of the old elder aspects and stuff could of used some help. And it sounded like your buddy wasn't spamming serpents or bikes or wraith Knights. The good news is most everything elder had got buffed including a lot of things that could use a slight bump. You really only needed to worry about serpent spam until recently and elder were still a top placing army. The bad news is Knights recieved a massive boost in durability and firepower and it doesn't match the cost. Serpent spam fire power was basically given to jet bikes for cheaper and more plentiful. And. Few random str d shenanigans. The nerfed str d defy the stuff isn't going to be much an issue its still just a str 10 ap2 gun with a multi wound and 33% chance to do nothing with the added benefit of ignoring fnp/reanimate. So unless you friend spams knight and bikes your going to be fine. For most people we now just need to figure out how to handle mass str 6 on a durable platform and insane mobility.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Well at least a Necron player came in to prove the point, this new Eldar stuff is just 'nice to have' but it's not OMG the world is falling apart! Waah! Waah! that people have been going on about recently.

Talys I've been playing since 2000, my experience is always going to be

1. If it's a Necron it's going to kill whatever I have with no problem and get right back up every time I knock them down.

2. If it's a +3 save it will probably be made.

3. If it's a +2 my opponent will always make it...and I won't.

4. Plasma will blow up right at the worst possible moment.


As far as Darkstar's comments.

No I don't NEED it but it's certainly nice to have. There is though pesky Scions/Stormtroopers that make having a better AP weapon preferable. Nids have their big fellas and a scatter laser 'might' tickle them after awhile. Orks...eh...but they've need a buff anyways. (Choppas should reduce ALL saves to +4 dang it!!!!)

As far as hull points, sure against AV11 or otherwise light armored stuff. But in that case if I'm playing Eldar I'm putting bright lances and fire dragons to task on armor.

All this being said...temptation to get back into Eldar is rising. And I've always wanted to do either an Alitoc or Saim-Han army.

I'm not sure why you are making this post. If what you are saying is that "I think I have bad luck and I tend to lose games alot against luckier players" than why is that not what you posted? The anecdotal nature of your argument is really not relevant to the rumors about the new codex...

People are going to cry about the new big unit - it's just the nature of the game. New things come out and people hate them if they aren't in their army, and they love them if they are. Not much more to say about it. Most of the other changes in the books seem pretty nice. Banshees being immune to overwatch when charging isn't game-breaking, but helps put the models back on the map since they pretty much fell out of use in 6e. The same will hopefully be true of other units in the codex - time will tell.

Regardless - stating that the changes are in any way better or worse because you have a bad track record against Necrons is just irrelevant. I've never once lost to a necron player. Ever - with any of my three armies. See how this anecdotal stuff works.

I for one look forward to the changes - and I say this as a player who doesn't own a WK (or any super-heavy unit) and probably never will.

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Everyone take a shot. He finished on a 'L2P' statement.

I think less than a page back people pointed out the ridiculousness that the only defense for some of these buffs was 'Learn to Play'. Because clearly knowing how to play clearly makes all the difference when one ancient master is armed with a wooden sword and the other has a full nuclear arsenal. Of course.

Easy to tell someone it's all skill when the deck is now stacked in your favour.

Okay fine, my opinions are invalidated. Say what you will. In my meta, we have few Eldar players, and they're very respectable. If they wanna bring a strong list, we'll bring a similar list and have a fun game. If not, we'll adapt our lists as well. And I didn't know what he was bringing against me. He likes Footdar, yes, but he rarely uses Serpents. And he figured, since it is Newcrons, he should probably bring a few, and use his Wraithknight. I said bring it on. And with the new codex, the same list he just played wouldn't have gotten any better, at all. In fact his firepower would've decreased since the Serpent shield was fired quite a few times that game.

I'm not accusing people of "L2P". I'm just saying, think tactically, assess his current threats, focus what needs to be fired at first, and think of positioning of your units. This isn't new to anyone, but it's simple things like that in the face of a new "OP" codex that will help you out. It's tactics like that that has allowed my Nids (I use Warriors, Primes, gaunts, and other various MCS, I don't spam Lictors or Flyrants) to defeat Tau every time I've gone up against them, even though I should've lost.

So, don't mind me then. I'm simply saying Eldar will not dominate any more than they did, if anything, probably less. But we'll see in a few weeks.

You are correct. Most of the old elder aspects and stuff could of used some help. And it sounded like your buddy wasn't spamming serpents or bikes or wraith Knights. The good news is most everything elder had got buffed including a lot of things that could use a slight bump. You really only needed to worry about serpent spam until recently and elder were still a top placing army. The bad news is Knights recieved a massive boost in durability and firepower and it doesn't match the cost. Serpent spam fire power was basically given to jet bikes for cheaper and more plentiful. And. Few random str d shenanigans. The nerfed str d defy the stuff isn't going to be much an issue its still just a str 10 ap2 gun with a multi wound and 33% chance to do nothing with the added benefit of ignoring fnp/reanimate. So unless you friend spams knight and bikes your going to be fine. For most people we now just need to figure out how to handle mass str 6 on a durable platform and insane mobility.

Well, to be completely honest, I would love someone in my meta to spam bikes. I would love it. 270 points for 10 models, and they can't touch my vehicles? I'll drop a monolith on them, have guys come out, and shoot up the bikes. Then, Wraithguard will taste my Particle Whip. Yeah, I just went there. Using one of the worst units in my codex to counter their cheese. And the Wraithknights? Yes, they are waaaaay undercosted. But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous. They could probably go 3-4 turns only killing a few rhinos at best. Or maaaaybe a land raider. And if they have the other loadouts, well, one need to be in CC, in which case is vulnerable to shooting, and the other one is the same as it is. And, since Serpent spam is no longer a thing, people have to invest points into other options for anti-tank and the like. So yeah, that's all I'm saying.

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

 greggles wrote:

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

This is true. But that's not going to help all that much.

Still no word on rangers? Can guarantee that they won't have been buffed even though they should have been while everything else got nerfed. In a perfect world.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greggles wrote:

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

This is true. But that's not going to help all that much.

A 50% increase in durability against something like 90% of the weapons out there isn't going to help that much?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Still no word on rangers? Can guarantee that they won't have been buffed even though they should have been while everything else got nerfed. In a perfect world.

I think they have Shrouded instead of just Stealth?

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greggles wrote:

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

This is true. But that's not going to help all that much.

A 50% increase in durability against something like 90% of the weapons out there isn't going to help that much?

Where are you getting a 50% increase? If they only have the Wraithcannons, they have 33% chance to ignore an incoming wound. Thats it.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greggles wrote:

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

This is true. But that's not going to help all that much.

A 50% increase in durability against something like 90% of the weapons out there isn't going to help that much?

Where are you getting a 50% increase? If they only have the Wraithcannons, they have 33% chance to ignore an incoming wound. Thats it.

That's not exactly bad though.

 ImAGeek wrote:


'They've always done it' isn't an excuse.

Who's more the fool: the Fool or the fool that follows him?

This game has been this way for 28 years. It's not going to change. If you don't like the way things are done, stop wasting your time with it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:


'They've always done it' isn't an excuse.

Who's more the fool: the Fool or the fool that follows him?

This game has been this way for 28 years. It's not going to change. If you don't like the way things are done, stop wasting your time with it.

I have.

 ImAGeek wrote:


That's not exactly bad though.

Not at all, as a Necron player I can say that a 5+++ is not bad at all. It's not "omg it'll never die, erhg mah gerd" though.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greggles wrote:

But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous.

They do have FNP from GC though.

This is true. But that's not going to help all that much.

A 50% increase in durability against something like 90% of the weapons out there isn't going to help that much?

Where are you getting a 50% increase? If they only have the Wraithcannons, they have 33% chance to ignore an incoming wound. Thats it.

A 33% chance to ignore a wound is an overall 50% increase in durability.

9 x 2/3 (5+ FNP = 2/3 chance to wound) = 6

9/6 = 1.5 aka 50% increase.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:


'They've always done it' isn't an excuse.

Who's more the fool: the Fool or the fool that follows him?

This game has been this way for 28 years. It's not going to change. If you don't like the way things are done, stop wasting your time with it.

I have.

If that is the case then stop arguing in a forum about a game you don't play....maybe...

In the hopes of calming down all the stomp fears on the WK just remember you have as much of a chance as doing nothing as you do at getting a six. I have run an IK list and can tell you that stomp is typically underwhelming but when you do roll that six everyone remembers it heh.

Its not stomp I worry about its giving a relatively cheap hard to kill model even more protection and FNP.

Just blows my mind. At least its not as easy to spam LoW.

Stomp worries the hell out of me. Do you have any idea what it does to Orks? All bunched up from the assault. Kills the heck out of them.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Still no word on rangers? Can guarantee that they won't have been buffed even though they should have been while everything else got nerfed. In a perfect world.

I think they have Shrouded now instead of stealth if I'm not mistaken. Same points.

I haven't heard a peep regarding Yriel though.

Games Workshop wrote:Crossing the galaxy on their vast world-ships, lead by the most powerful psykers in the universe, they rage hard against the dying of the light. Under the leadership of Farseers, psychics capable of planning thousands of years into the future with patience and confidence unmatched by any race, the Eldar wish to see their empire burn brightly once more, illuminated by the glory of total war, before fate consigns them to dark oblivion.

Wait what.

Games Workshop wrote:they rage hard

 Manchu wrote:

Games Workshop wrote:Crossing the galaxy on their vast world-ships, lead by the most powerful psykers in the universe, they rage hard against the dying of the light. Under the leadership of Farseers, psychics capable of planning thousands of years into the future with patience and confidence unmatched by any race, the Eldar wish to see their empire burn brightly once more, illuminated by the glory of total war, before fate consigns them to dark oblivion.

Wait what.

Games Workshop wrote:they rage hard

Not a fan of Dylan Thomas?

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.