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Hey, my fiancee and I were considering getting whatever starter box comes out when the new edition hits. Could someone give me impressions of the game, especially in comparison to 40k? I noticed that WHFB units are all grouped really closely together so I'm getting the impression that the game is more about unit-to-unit action than caring so much about the relationships between individual models.

Also, playstyle profiles of the following armies we're considering would be nice: Elves, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, Skaven, Dwarves and Empire or Brettonians. What's up with Brettonians? They seem like they're basically calvalry-heavy humans, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, does anyone know what armies the 8th starter is going to feature?

Rumors are skaven/highelf, though I heard empire/orcs as well.
I play dwarfs, they shoot and have decent armor saves and toughness. A gunline army with thunderes/several organ guns you can chew through an army very quick. Dwarf lords can get nasty tough with rune combos. CC takes time, dwarfs don't kill much and don't die much either. Anvil of doom is very good, I don't run one, but others do.
I am holding my own in an escalation league right now.
Strength 10 cannons solve lots of problems, like big monsters or wizards.
The only game I wasn't close in was against daemons, but that's another topic...
Hope that helps with dwarfs.

I wouldn't bother. If you want a better game play the War of the Ring.

Nurglitch wrote:I wouldn't bother. If you want a better game play the War of the Ring.

HERPITY DERPITY

Rumors are skaven/highelf, though I heard empire/orcs as well.
I play dwarfs, they shoot and have decent armor saves and toughness. A gunline army with thunderes/several organ guns you can chew through an army very quick. Dwarf lords can get nasty tough with rune combos. CC takes time, dwarfs don't kill much and don't die much either. Anvil of doom is very good, I don't run one, but others do.
I am holding my own in an escalation league right now.
Strength 10 cannons solve lots of problems, like big monsters or wizards.
The only game I wasn't close in was against daemons, but that's another topic...
Hope that helps with dwarfs.

Thanks, sounds pretty cool.

But I was talking about the game itself, too. I've never played nor really observed it being played for long. How does the game 'flow'? Is it move, shoot, assault like 40k? I heard there was something called a "Magic phase".

The order of phases is the weirdest thing to grasp as a 40k convert like myself.

It actually goes Move, Magic, Shoot, Combat. Possibly the biggest change is that you charge right at the begining of your movement phase, so you have to get into position a turn in advance. The distance a model moves is also different for each model (Elves generaly move faster than humans and dwarves for example) instead of having a certain distance for each type of unit. Magic might seem a little odd at first as Wizards work nothing like Psykers, but honestly it allows for alot more customization once you get the hang of it. All in all the game feels alot more tactical, you have to think several turns in advance if you want to succeed.

How army lists are set up is also different, there are only 3 types of units (Other than heros and lords). Core units are required, you need a certain amount of them depending on the point value you're playing at. Special units are more elite and there is a cap on how many you can use, again according to the point value. Rare units are like special units only more powerful and costly, also the cap is lower.

Heros are like HQ's but much more customizable. Each army ussualy at least has options for a combat hero and a caster hero, some have more. There are lists of magic items and abilities you can give to them to tailor them to their role, some army-specific and some that anyone can use. Lords are more powerful than Heros, but cannot be used at lower point values. Again most armies have options for a combat and a caster lord, and sometimes more. They can take more magic items and have more powerful statlines than heros.

Any other questions?

I moved from 40k to Fantasy with 7th Ed. and only previously played 5th Ed. (VERY briefly).

I can honestly say that I have a lot more fun with WFB than 40k.

Any idiot can buy 3 monoliths or land raiders but WFB has been the only game I've seen where someone can flip tables with a unit of slaves.

bd1085 wrote:I moved from 40k to Fantasy with 7th Ed. and only previously played 5th Ed. (VERY briefly).

I can honestly say that I have a lot more fun with WFB than 40k.

Any idiot can buy 3 monoliths or land raiders but WFB has been the only game I've seen where someone can flip tables with a unit of slaves.

Err, I don't like the sound of this.

A) there aren't really any units that are good enough that you can say "Just buy these and you're fine" in 40k unless you are an absolutely terribad player. It might not be the most balanced game at the tournament level but the only really overpowered unit I can think of is a Nob Biker, but even they have their counters and they're pretty costly even for their effect.

B) A unit of slaves turning the table sounds like a pretty unbalanced game. A level 20 Wizard shouldn't be able to be killed by a unit of 1st level peasants, end of story.

Is the game really like that?

I think he was exagerating. Basically saying uber units dont win games in WFB.

To avoid confusion, lets get specific. By slaves I assume he means Skavenslaves, which are the most inexpensive unit for Skaven, an already swarmy army. They die to anything, but they're very effective as bait or a screen.

In WHFB, unlike in 40k, you choose a responce to a charge. You can bait your opponent into charging your Slaves, choose to flee (Which skaven are very good at) instead of taking the charge, and as long as you outrun the charging unit, they're now vulnerable. Their flank is exposed and you can charge them with your heavy hitters. Attacking from behind or on the flank is very beneficial, so in this situation your slaves might have made all the difference, despite being pretty useless otherwise.

So it isn't that slaves will win you games on their own, its that proper use of them will enable you to win. This applies to almost any unit.

Zygh wrote:To avoid confusion, lets get specific. By slaves I assume he means Skavenslaves, which are the most inexpensive unit for Skaven, an already swarmy army. They die to anything, but they're very effective as bait or a screen.

In WHFB, unlike in 40k, you choose a responce to a charge. You can bait your opponent into charging your Slaves, choose to flee (Which skaven are very good at) instead of taking the charge, and as long as you outrun the charging unit, they're now vulnerable. Their flank is exposed and you can charge them with your heavy hitters. Attacking from behind or on the flank is very beneficial, so in this situation your slaves might have made all the difference, despite being pretty useless otherwise.

So it isn't that slaves will win you games on their own, its that proper use of them will enable you to win. This applies to almost any unit.

Oh, that sounds pretty damn cool. I wish I had the option to try to run with my 'crons.

Definitely wait until 8th before you buy anything unless you really like the look of the models. Currently Fantasy is broken to the point where gimmick lists (1 slann 3 stegadons, 3+ ward save chosen, etc) are ridiculously hard to fight against with a "reasonable" army. It looks like 8th is trying to fix this sort of stupid army design with objectives, magic nerfing and percentages on characters but we'll have to see how it pans out.

It pains me to say it as a long time Fantasy player, but currently 40k is much, much more strategic than Fantasy. Every high level Fantasy game I've seen played lately is literally creating as broken a main unit as you can and just pushing it forward or figuring out a way to throw so many magic dice the opponent has no way of stopping it.

Zygh wrote:To avoid confusion, lets get specific. By slaves I assume he means Skavenslaves, which are the most inexpensive unit for Skaven, an already swarmy army. They die to anything, but they're very effective as bait or a screen.

In WHFB, unlike in 40k, you choose a responce to a charge. You can bait your opponent into charging your Slaves, choose to flee (Which skaven are very good at) instead of taking the charge, and as long as you outrun the charging unit, they're now vulnerable. Their flank is exposed and you can charge them with your heavy hitters. Attacking from behind or on the flank is very beneficial, so in this situation your slaves might have made all the difference, despite being pretty useless otherwise.

So it isn't that slaves will win you games on their own, its that proper use of them will enable you to win. This applies to almost any unit.

There's no point to outmaneuvering now since everything with a big points sink doesn't care about combat resolution bonuses (stubborn/unbreakable) and/or strikes first so it will kill anything that charges it to negate any sort of benefit.

I disagree, Fantasy if played with your friends and/or people who arn't crazy competitive like you say, taking only the best, then it can actually be pretty fun and strategic. 40k to me seems like the one missing strategy.

Also the way you have to move in fantasy (wheeling and such) actually is more fun to me since its like you're actually back in the medieval times and you have blocks of infantry.

It was once said that "Min-maxing is a problem with the player, not the system". I realize there is a problem at the competetive level, and there are alot of lists that are just stupidly powerful and unfun, but this is only an issue if the players make it an issue.

It is worth noting, as somone can accidently make one of these lists if they think "Oh a bunch of stegadons would be cool, lets see how many I can fit in this list". If you plan on playing hard and making WAAC lists then yeah, wait till 8th and see what happens. But if you're just playing with for fun with your fiancee, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Part of the problem with WFB is the blocks of troops though. It means that you'll buy a bunch of models that will simply be wound-markers for whatever regiment that they belong to.

Speaking of running, moving 4" with an 8" march move is pretty dull once you've been used to moving 6" with a 1D6" run move in Warhammer 40k.

Ixquic wrote:Definitely wait until 8th before you buy anything unless you really like the look of the models. Currently Fantasy is broken to the point where gimmick lists (1 slann 3 stegadons, 3+ ward save chosen, etc) are ridiculously hard to fight against with a "reasonable" army. It looks like 8th is trying to fix this sort of stupid army design with objectives, magic nerfing and percentages on characters but we'll have to see how it pans out.

It pains me to say it as a long time Fantasy player, but currently 40k is much, much more strategic than Fantasy. Every high level Fantasy game I've seen played lately is literally creating as broken a main unit as you can and just pushing it forward or figuring out a way to throw so many magic dice the opponent has no way of stopping it.

There's no point to outmaneuvering now since everything with a big points sink doesn't care about combat resolution bonuses (stubborn/unbreakable) and/or strikes first so it will kill anything that charges it to negate any sort of benefit.

Wait until 8th? We have no idea when that will be. That could be later this year or two years from now. Even then you're assuming that the game will change dramatically.

Fantasy is not currently broken. Yes you will lose plenty of fights when you're first starting out but its first about having fun and secondly, playing the way you want to play. Yes some armies are a little more powerful than some but that certainly doesn't mean an army is unbeatable. Where 40k can be thwarted in any phase of the game, its all about the Movement Phase in WFB.

Fighting an Unbreakable, insane unit? Pummel it with magic, blast it to hell with war machines, prepare to attack on as many sides as possible, or any combination you prefer that your army consists of. Any player who relies on such big, "Death Star" units is playing on a crutch because they're not good enough to progressively think turns ahead.

If you're going to a tournament for WFB, be prepared to face some tough opponents and have plenty of experience under your belt. Otherwise I'd steer clear of certain tournaments. You can say the EXACT same thing a bout 40k tourneys too. Hell, any games tournament for that matter because its about being Competitive.

Just play to have fun.

Nurglitch wrote:Part of the problem with WFB is the blocks of troops though. It means that you'll buy a bunch of models that will simply be wound-markers for whatever regiment that they belong to.

Speaking of running, moving 4" with an 8" march move is pretty dull once you've been used to moving 6" with a 1D6" run move in Warhammer 40k.

Blocks of troops are not a problem - its the game. Despite the similarities, WFB and 40K are two different games. Speaking as an old time 40K player now playing a lot of WFB - it takes a bit of head space adjustment to transition from one game to the other.

WFB is not about how far you move but where you move. A quarter inch of movement or a 15 degree angle on a unit facing can be all a game winner in WFB - the same sort of fine movement means nothing in 40K.

Nurglitch wrote:Part of the problem with WFB is the blocks of troops though. It means that you'll buy a bunch of models that will simply be wound-markers for whatever regiment that they belong to.

Already? Too bad. Well, check the other "Going from 40k to WFB" threads, all the good arguments are there.
IMHO, all games can be run like that. If you take some bases and glue bolters to them you can run them as Space Marines.
About WotR, it has the same "flaw" as Warhammer. Guys die so fast they never get to do anything, and the guys behind can`t fight. LotR is neat though
Cheers!

RanTheCid:

Speaking as an old-time WFB player who played 4th -6th edition, the blocks of troops really were a problem. If you're going to play a regimental game there's way better ones out there: Warmaster in particular gives you a fast and dynamic game, and WOTR incorporates many of the aspects that make Warmaster so much fun to play.

Nurglitch wrote:RanTheCid:

Speaking as an old-time WFB player who played 4th -6th edition, the blocks of troops really were a problem. If you're going to play a regimental game there's way better ones out there: Warmaster in particular gives you a fast and dynamic game, and WOTR incorporates many of the aspects that make Warmaster so much fun to play.

Why do you keep pushing WotR? All of the Lord of the Rings players I know would rather eat their figures than play that game.

Because if this guy is planning on playing a friendly game with his fiance, then he's not interested enough to dig into the 'net to order a couple of Warmaster armies. WOTR can at least be picked at a local GW outlet (though discount ordering over the 'net is recommended).

And I agree, I would rather eat my WFB than play WFB.

Yeah, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to be playing WFB competitively anyway. I generally don't play 40k competitively either.

And I thought 8th was this summer?

Ostrakon wrote:Yeah, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to be playing WFB competitively anyway. I generally don't play 40k competitively either.

And I thought 8th was this summer?

It is, and i can assure you, i play Warhammer friendly with my friends, and that`s loads of fun. I also play 40k and LotR. Btw, i`m not argumenting against WotR here, but if you want to play it, you have to invest money. You need loads of models
Cheers!

Start with Ogre Kingdom, models are big to paint and you don't need to have that many models. It is, unfortunately, not that competitive.

is it too corny to suggest the skull pass set?
two small armies to get you both playing FB for fairly little outlay (in GW terms at least)