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Why is it there are always some parents who see GW stores as free places to drop their kids while they shop.

More to the point why should the more mature gamers have to put up with stores filled with kids, if I wanted to have an argument with an 8 year old over the fact that the table they are using is reserved for tournament use I'd stop at home and fight with my own kids.

Personally I now avoid weekend gaming as it's too much like hard work trying to get everything sorted with these kids running round touching that ain't theirs.

Please tell me I'm not the only one out there who wants an over 18's area reserved or just a ban on unaccompanied kids.

It'd be nice, for sure.

But to answer your question, do you have any kids? I've got a toddler brother and sister, and I can hardly take care of them for an evening. I couldn't even imagine dealing with munchkins full time.

Plus, 8 year olds are really good at begging their parents to buy them stuff, just so they'll shut up. GW has realized this.

I think it has to be accepted that GW stores are going to serve as child care centres most days of the week. I respect the parents in that they are at least leaving the kids to do something they will enjoy. Arguably if you chose to play at that time, it's your job to get them interested in the game (Have fun with that! )

When I worked for the cinema, parents always left kids there to watch films which weren't really suitable for them (The Importance of Being Earnest being one infamous example) and then wonder why I had thrown them out of the screen for messing around.

EDIT - Isn't this one of those rare threads that could qualify for Dakka Discussions, it's not specifically 40K related after all?

It is isn't it? Won't HBMC be thrilled.

My hobby shop doesn't have so many little kids as it does mentally or physically disabled people. You can imagine trying to play against someone who randomly shakes uncontrollably. It makes measuring difficult, but he's damned good at rolling. I guess I shouldn't be complaining actually, seeing as how I'm psychotic... huh.

Justicar Alaric wrote:
Please tell me I'm not the only one out there who wants an over 18's area reserved or just a ban on unaccompanied kids.

well, over 18 is a bit (well more than a bit) exaggerated. seeing as how GW says that their games are recommended 12+ i would say that should be the minimum.

Unfortunately the under 18 set have several clear advantages over us older gamers....
1) more "disposable income" as in they have monies from allowances, summer jobs, gifts, and what not and very little by way of expenses like gas, bills, rent,... etc.
2) Parents that will buy stuff to keep them quiet or as a reward for "good behavior".
3) free time to be in the store looking for things to spend money on, either their own or their parent's.

Tabacco companies allegedly had a program of "Hook-em Young" GW isnt much different on this theme.

I know these points to be true because I formerly ran a hobby store that had in-store gaming. on an average weekend day we had more under 18's than most class rooms. I used to joke that I needed a childcare permit to just stay open.

Through the eyes of a bad parent, miniatures=toys, toys=toyshop, and toyshop=childcare. Never mind the expensive stuff, leave your todler with the 16+ men.

Incidentally I won't go to a game store (my local is a GW) on a weekend unless it's just to buy something, simply because I can't put up with all the kids.

I agree with the OP but I think an age limit of 18 is a bit harsh. I am only 16 and still manage to have mature games with older players without any problems. At the club I go to I only play with over 18s and we both manage to have a good game.

I don't thinks its the under 18s, but the children that are under 13 causing the problem. Above that age they don't really cause a problem and if you don't like playing them you can easily pick an older opponent. If GW had a policy stopping under 13s hanging around unless they were buying/ playing or having a session with the staff then other players would have a better time.

Unfortunately putting a rule like this would be unfair to younger children as there are many circumstances when they need to be in their, e.g.if they go ahead of their parents to grab a box of models, then wait for their parents with them. And more importantly it would drop sales for GW.

My local GW is always filled with children, staff included.

Because it's free childcare, duh.
Oh, and I'm a 12 year old, and I agree that those under ten are little ****s, but anyone over that is usually ok.

Do you want an exclusive gaming area where you're the boss?

Fancy being an elitist snob, having decided anyone younger than you isn't worth engagin with?

Then go and form a club! Or is that too much to ask?

Seriously, go and form a club and stop bloody whinging. GW Stores are not for your exclusive use. 'Reserved' for a Tournament? Define. Reserved by the staff for a store run tournament, or by you and your mates? Two very different things.

Alaric, for brats like you describe, you need to get your anti kid-stare tuned up... Emit an aura of menace and most kids will understand they are not wanted, and go hover somewhere else. My goal is to get them a couple feet away, and it is all good. For the socially inept grabby kids, a curt instruction usually works. Say, assertively, "Do NOT touch that." Sometimes I think they pee a little! Not mean, just assert that you are in charge because you are the adult (or older at least) and those are your models. Its just a matter of asserting your ability to play your game and protect your possessions.

I've found that sometimes, just sometimes, there will be a kid who is intelligent, quiet, and actually listens. Those are all right. The anti-kid stare works on them, but just puts you in the role of "teacher", I guess.

When playing in a public place, kids (and adults) will want to watch. You could always just lay out some ground rules... invite the kids to watch but not touch, and tell them to be quiet. If they break the rules they can't watch. All the while emitting that aura of in-charge-ness. Then talk to them occasionally. If they aren't allowing you to play, ask them to go talk to the guy behind the counter. There is nothing you can do about the fact they are there, so make it more pleasant on everyone. Maybe you'll help convert another buyer! Imagine, you might be the cool gamer that starts a kid on the road to plasticrack addiction... And as a bonus, wouldn't it be hilarious when Mom/Dad returns? You've just convinced little Johnny this is the best game EVAR. Either Mom/Dad has to buy stuff or say no, neither of which they may enjoy... Teach them to leave little johnny at the GW store! HAH!

What do you define as a child? I'm 13, but I like to think of myself as quite mature-I don't touch Gak that isn't mine, and in general I try not to bother people. "Its not so much the age as the kid themselves" is a phrase I oft-see repeated on Dakka, but it's no less true because of it.
I do agree with you that their should be restrictions on under 10's though, as well as people who act like under tens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn double post!

First of all I love the pattern that is evolving here... The 16 yr old says it's the under 13's ruining everything and the 12 yr old says it's everyone under 10. It's just great how everyone younger then you is to blame including the OP. Is it possible to judge others on an individule basis? or are we all lumped into 'us' vs 'them'?

I got hooked into GW when I was about 13-14 and the number one thing I remember is looking up to the older players, and not wanting to disturb anyone dispite my curiosity. The store has since closed down but I was never a distraction. Fast forward to today, I study Muay Thai at a local gym, recently there have been two new additions who can't be much older then 13. These kids are a little hyper-active but for the most part are respectful and even capable students for their age. This is because our Trainer and our Sensai have caught their attention and engaged them instead of "just dealing with them" as the rest of you put it, and the rest of the class has followed suit. These kids and myself at their age are the rule not the exception.

The moral of this story is that the younger crowd is easily peer preasured by the older ones into behaving once they see you as a human being and not just another jaded and souless adult who has to put up with them. If you lack the ability to engage them on this level then A.) Don't ever reproduce and B.) Don't blame the kids for your inadequecy.

EDIT: Grammer, rewording for more impact.

well seeing as i'm 15 i think 18+ is a bit over the top...

Quite simply because they can. That is the mantra for all things. People do things because they can and no one calls them on it.

Call them out. and don't ever reproduce because then you'll become TFP (That F****** Parent).

i have come to know younger kids who do find the game fun and can play it without wreaking our lives, what annoys me are these people(notalways kids mind) who can go out and get thier parents to buy them a 2000 point army on a whim.
maybe its just me but my parents were really strict on what i bought, i mean 25£ was a major amount to spend on one item so my armies have grown at a rate of about 20 points a month.
but back to point of op, yes there are annoying kids but they will grow up to be 'mature', 'competant' gamers...
at some point

I have to disagree with assultmarine slightly. Annoying kids are annoying because it benefits them in some way to be so. The trick, if any one trick truely does exist, is to make them recognize that it is more beneficial to not be annoying, by rewarding or penalizing behavior with nothing more then your attention.

Kids don't just grow up to be respectful adults automagically, they need guidence. This is NOT your job, but you can contribute to their happiness by showing them that they aren't just some inconvieniance to be put up with. If they see that being less annoying means that people include them in discussions, or maybe even let play on a table that is normally only used for tournaments then they would be more inclined to act appropriatley. This is not a solve everything solution, since kids are just little people you have to keep in mind that they their motivation is either inline with your goals or contrary to them. Once you find what that motivation is, they are more easy to control or predict. This is the foundation for managing people on any level by the way.

As a side note I do not blame the parents, I don't mean to call into question their ability to raise their kids. It's obvious that as a father myself I'm just winging it at times. But if their was a place that my kid enjoyed being, I would want them to feel welcome.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:Because it's free childcare, duh.

Brilliant. It is definitely why parents leave their children unattended.

To the OP, the problem isn't unattended children, it is people, of all ages, who haven't learned respect. People tend to focus on children for numerous unfair and prejudicial reasons. There are just as many adults as children at my local GW who do not know to ask before they manhandle my miniatures, squabble with me over the use of gaming tables, and running around the store generally being asses. Banning kids, wether you define that mark as being under 18, under 16, under 12 or under 10, will only eliminate half the problem. Additionally such a ban will remove some people worth playing against, and I include in that category kids who are worth banning who grow up into people worth playing against. I don't think there is a way to flat out remove such unpleasant aspects of gaming in public places, to do that you have to play in your home or run your own club, but constantly meeting and gaming with new people is worth dealing with the occasional idiot as far as I am concerned.

I don't know the laws and legal position but I reckon that GW staff would be acting responsibly and within the law in calling the police if a minor was found wandering round the premises without a parent or guardian in close attendance.

You have other issues in store such as. use of knives, Aerosols, small plastic components, resin etc.

It would be interesting to find out how GW's insurance reads regarding their retail operations.

As a father of five I would say that it isn't always the kids the problem is the parents who don't seem to care about where their children are.

My original post was not meant to be offensive towards all people under 18 as I am sure many of you are smart enough to show some respect to those there with more experience.

It's the parents who turn up with their 8 year old buy them something that they don't really understand how to use and then disappear for up to 6 hours expecting the rest of us to entertain their kids while they do some shopping.

If I have upset anybody I am sorry and yes the over 18 section would be unfair but I feel that something needs to be done to stop GW stores from being used as a day care centers.

We all know that the first time anything were to happen to these unattended minors it would be the store that got blamed not the lazy parents who can't be bothered to deal with their own kids on a weekend.

Mr. Burning wrote:I don't know the laws and legal position but I reckon that GW staff would be acting responsibly and within the law in calling the police if a minor was found wandering round the premises without a parent or guardian in close attendance.

The legals there would obviously depend on the country...

I used to work in a toy store. Bored kids wandering around the store being a nuisance was pretty much a fact of life. We technically could have called the police, but it generally wasn't worth the resultant fuss. Except in one case, where the kid (probably about 8 or 9 years old at the most) had been left there for something like 4 hours, and had been starting to get a little frantic. Parents were not impressed when they showed up another hour later and were told they had to go to the Police Beat to pick up their child...


It's one thing when there is an organised event, something for the kid to take part in where they will be supervised. Or at the very least, for the kid to be independant enough to look after themselves (in the case of being left at a gaming store, actually being a gamer would be a big bonus). But a lot of parents simply think 'Toy store, great, they can amuse themselves' and don't realise just how quickly young kids get bored just wandering around a store... or think about what can happen to them when there's nobody actually looking after them.


Teenagers are a different story. If they're interested enough to hang around the store, that should only be encouraged, in my book. Get them gaming... for once they start down that path, forever will it dominate their destiny. Well, until they lose interest and find a different hobby.

I dont think you should ban kids.. Im 21 and I used to be one of those kids at the gaming shop. I agree, teach them not to touch your stuff and behave. If they're dicking around on tables, tell them to get off unless theyre playing a game. You're and adult, they're children, odds are if they havent grown hair down there, they'll probably listen to you.

It comes with the territory of gaming shops.

However, all magic players should be shot, or have hookers bought for them, because they are the real enemy

Leigen_Zero wrote:Incidentally I won't go to a game store (my local is a GW) on a weekend unless it's just to buy something, simply because I can't put up with all the kids.

Yes! Yes! Yes! and Yes! The GWs in Canada on the weekends were packed with kids and it made gaming too nerve wracking to be fun. Club nights were OK as most of them have school the next day. I have work, but that won't stop me from staying out late to dish out WFB punishment. The GWs here in Japan are different as the mind set of the people in general is different. There aren"t any "big" shopping centres comparatively speaking and with the few that do exist, the rent would be so prohibitively high that the GW wouldn't last a month. I went to GW this past Saturday in Chiba to take my Orks for a spin and to get some painting in. I was the only customer for the 4 hours that I was there and all I bought was some mithril silver as a tip-of-the-hat to say thank you for letting me use the tables, paint and the toilet. (I played the manager and he whipped me BAD!)

Also, if by chance the two other Chiba area foreigner GW nerds are reading this, PM me. The manager guy told me about other "white Gorillas in the gaming mists of the Boso hanto" we should hook up, game and drink.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Do you want an exclusive gaming area where you're the boss?

Fancy being an elitist snob, having decided anyone younger than you isn't worth engagin with?

Then go and form a club! Or is that too much to ask?

Seriously, go and form a club and stop bloody whinging. GW Stores are not for your exclusive use. 'Reserved' for a Tournament? Define. Reserved by the staff for a store run tournament, or by you and your mates? Two very different things.

For some reason, I hear more about these "clubs" from you Brits than I see/hear about
locally. In Chicago, the people I see gaming are at the shops or at someone's place
who's able to give up the space for the night.

I don't generally hear about clubs and such. Specifically, I don't hear about people
gaming in a public/reserved space that lets them store their terrain.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Do you want an exclusive gaming area where you're the boss?

Fancy being an elitist snob, having decided anyone younger than you isn't worth engagin with?

Then go and form a club! Or is that too much to ask?

Seriously, go and form a club and stop bloody whinging. GW Stores are not for your exclusive use. 'Reserved' for a Tournament? Define. Reserved by the staff for a store run tournament, or by you and your mates? Two very different things.

I don't want to be the boss!

I wasn't complaining about the younger gamers more the parents who seem to view GW as free child care.

I have other responsibilities which prevent me from joining/forming a club.

The table was reserved for a store run tournament.

Next time you fancy having a pop, pm me and do it that way because at least then nobody else has to put up with somebody trying to start an argument, instead of just commenting in a non aggressive manner.

loofacop wrote:
However, all magic players should be shot, or have hookers bought for them, because they are the real enemy

Rage against the mechanicus? Dude, no need to flame M:TG.

Justicar Alaric wrote:
I wasn't complaining about the younger gamers more the parents who seem to view GW as free child care.

Welcome to EVERY retail location with a decent size to employee ratio. You'd be surprised how many unattended children there are at Barnes and Noble every single day(especially Friday and Saturday nights).

My sister(used to be a department head in the children's book area) was yelled at before by a crazy parent because this lady told her child(but not my sister) that my sister would take care of her, left for several hours and then couldn't find her kid when she got back. Our managers calmly informed the woman that employees aren't legally allowed to watch over children and that they and the police officer in the parking lot would be happy to help her find the kid in the store(she was reading in one of the big comfy chairs elsewhere in the store) despite the fact that she pretty much abandoned her child in legal terms.

Why do some parents use GW as free child care?

Why do some parents use bowling alleys as free child care?

Why do some parents use malls as free child care?

Why do some parents use (Insert local book chain here) as free child care?


Why do some parents...become parents?