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2010/03/16 10:48:36
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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Special issue ammo shouldn't have it's own type. it should retain the type of it's firer.
as such, heres my proposition:
if you use dragonfire bolts, instead of
24" S4 AP5 RF Ignores cover
In a bolter it would stay the same.
In a storm-bolter, it would be
24" S4 AP5 Assault 2, IC
and in a bolt-pistol it would be
12" S4 AP5 Pistol IC
thoughts?
I think it might be a bit overpowered, but I'd like to fire 10 vengance rounds into my enemies chaos marines before they come in and die in close combat.
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DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted! 
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/16 12:22:38
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Committed Chaos Cult Marine
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I'm not opposed to this. They are bolter rounds & as far as I know only the H.Bolter uses different ammunition, assuming all astartes grade weapons.
However, this could get very OP very fast. I say limit the amount of storm bolters per sternguard squad to 1 per 5 models (For every 5 models in the squad. . .). Though I don't know why you would want to assault with sternguard rather than rapidfire 20 vengeance rounds into the same chaos squad.
20 shots = 6 misses = 3 hots = 1 unsaved wound for you
20 shots = 14 hits = 7 wounds = 7 dead enemies
I think a 7:1 ratio is pretty good & if they assault you next turn you probably out number them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/16 12:23:35
Custom tailoring lists is the trademark of a bad player who doesn't know how to build an army that can adapt to different opponents. I play Warhammer not rock-paper-scissors
DashofPepper wrote:
Don't worry about the accusations of cheese. People who accuse others of cheese only do so because they are unable or unwilling to come to grips with their own tactical incompetence, and would rather assign blame for their inability to grasp strategy on someone else for being too powerful instead of themselves for learning how to manage tactically shifting situations.
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2010/03/16 13:01:58
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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I don't thin it would be OP remember the storm bolter is inexplicably 10 points per model at the moment and this change would actually make them worth it.
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2010/03/16 14:22:42
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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[DCM]
Totally not a llama...
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As strange as it feels to say, this actually makes a moderate amount of sense. I'm not incredibly familar with SM fluff though. Does this ammo fire hotter than ordinary ammo? Maybe the guns, being air cooled, can't sustain their normal rate of fire? This could just be me trying to apply real world physics to a game though.
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I'm trolling your Chaos Grey Knight thread.
Overpowered, cheese, creep? These are all just words used to claim your successes but not your failures. |
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2010/03/16 14:46:35
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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OP, I redirect you to this thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253097.page
It describes that strom bolters/heavy bolters/ bolt pistols/ banana bolters cant use specail ammo.
But your idea for the boltgun seems good to me.
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2010/03/16 16:33:06
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Bounding Assault Marine
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Yeah that's why it is posted in the Proposed Rules section 
//Edge
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2010/03/16 21:47:11
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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why shouldn;'t you be able to use them in the storm bolters.
I mean, I've not bought a storm bolter so I can fire as rapid fire.
Maybe they could all just be assault 1. eh.
N: they should retain the weapons range, too.
why would a bolt pistol be able to fire 30".
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/16 21:47:51
DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/17 21:37:37
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Raging Ravener
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Just that you should know: You dont need an OP warning in your title. Upon seeing your name, viewers will instantly know it's OP what ever your suggestion is. 
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2010/03/17 21:43:40
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Member of the Malleus
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I thought sternguard ammunition only afected the bolters and combi-weapons,
yep, just checked the codex. Only boltguns and combi-weapon bolters can use special issue ammunition.
But the captain with hellfire rounds, thats a different topic
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2010/03/18 09:32:45
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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Sorry, thats wrong. Bolt ers are basic armaments. Wizard, it says BOLT-GUN check your armoury, theres no such thing as a bolt-gun, therefore, all Bolt-guns have the word Bolt (unless they're a CCW ) they count as bolt-guns. Sorry, you've got to remember, it's a very shoddily done rule, it should either say "all bolters (because thats everything but bolt pistols)" or all bolt-weapons. or it should state "all bolt-gun armed (that is, Bolters bolt pistols, storm bolters heavy bolters and combi-weapons.)" which is much clearer. Edit: toned down, spelling.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/18 09:33:32
DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/18 15:53:06
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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No, Boltgun and Bolter are the same thing.
If you want to include BP, HB, SB etc, you'd have to say Bolt Weapon.
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Armys:  ,  ,  , Skaven
Number of Threads Won: 1 |
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2010/03/18 16:40:11
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:Just that you should know: You dont need an OP warning in your title. Upon seeing your name, viewers will instantly know it's OP what ever your suggestion is.
Wow, thanks for pointing that out. I spend too much time on 4chan now.  Didn't even notice I did it.
Oh, and your right, the rules on it are very unclear. It should say Bolter or Combi-Bolter, not boltgun.
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2010/03/18 16:47:25
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Captain Solon wrote:Sorry, thats wrong. Bolt ers are basic armaments. Wizard, it says BOLT-GUN check your armoury, theres no such thing as a bolt-gun, therefore, all Bolt-guns have the word Bolt (unless they're a CCW ) they count as bolt-guns.
Sorry, thats wrong. P.97 Codex Space Marines wrote:
Boltgun
The boltgun, or bolter, fires small missiles, or 'bolts'.
<palm /> Ed: Further more, in the army list entries they list the "bolters" as boltguns... how can you mess this up...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/18 16:52:01
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2010/03/18 19:29:33
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Bacause he has never actually read anything that GW published codex wise.
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2010/03/18 21:46:43
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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jp400 wrote:Bacause he has never actually read anything that GW published codex wise.
Leave the guy alone okay, he has some good ideas, and he is sharing them with you. If you don't like it, don't view it.
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2010/03/18 22:34:48
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Happygrunt wrote:jp400 wrote:Bacause he has never actually read anything that GW published codex wise.
Leave the guy alone okay, he has some good ideas, and he is sharing them with you. If you don't like it, don't view it.
hey leave the other guys alone, Captain Solon asked for the opinons of dakka and he's getting him. If he only wanted positive feedback then he shouldn't have posted it in the first place. If you don't like it, don't post 
back to the topic at hand, i like the idea becasue it makes sense, (kantors storm bolter fires kraken rounds) but it really does sound like it would get out of hand really quickly.
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You love it you slags!
Blood Ravens  1500 pts |
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2010/03/18 22:51:46
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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Joetaco wrote:Happygrunt wrote:jp400 wrote:Bacause he has never actually read anything that GW published codex wise.
Leave the guy alone okay, he has some good ideas, and he is sharing them with you. If you don't like it, don't view it.
hey leave the other guys alone, Captain Solon asked for the opinons of dakka and he's getting him. If he only wanted positive feedback then he shouldn't have posted it in the first place. If you don't like it, don't post
Your right. He asked for the opinion of his idea to dakka. HOWEVER, that was a personal attack against the good captain, and had nothing to do with the idea posted. I should rephrase that and say if you don't like HIM don't post. Sorry I couldn't make it clear that we should all try to be polite and respectful to each other. Fine, bash the IDEA not the POSTER!
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2010/03/21 06:27:31
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think this is a great idea.
I thought the exact same thing as he did with the storm bolters in the Sternguard squad, and so I actually went up and asked a person at the store what he thought about the fact that the storm bolters should probably have the special rounds as well. Unless this was implemented I could never see a reason to buy the storm bolters for a sternguard squad anyways.
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2010/03/21 10:34:54
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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I still think it would be MUCH better.
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DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/21 16:22:06
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Especially as the Storm bolters are inexplicably 10 pouints each. I mean a storm bolter 10 points more than a Spec ammo bolter?!?! I'd prefer the spec ammo bolter even if they were the same cost!
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2010/03/22 02:28:38
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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so why not 'up the ante' so to speak, and make storm bolters carry spec munitions with their range and type (except for things where the range is specifically greater (with intended purpose.))
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DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/22 15:44:49
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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For SBs, just make all the special ammo Assault 2, keep the cost @10 each.
Don't allow it for BP, unless you raise the cost.
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Armys: , , , Skaven
Number of Threads Won: 1 |
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2010/03/22 18:12:55
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Strategizing Grey Knight Chapter Master
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I do think Special issue ammo should be avaliable for all Bolters and Bolter varients. Storm bolters are functionally just 2 Bolters stuck together (infact "stormbolters" used to be treated like and called TL-bolters and Chaos still has them this way)
Bolt pistols are a little harder to decide if it should be avaliable to them, although i do remember that the ammo clips for BPs and Bolters are completely interchangable, BP clips only have less rounds.
As to cost: You are paying for the special ammo + whatever gun its going in. you pay twice for the ability, why pay 3 times? (Gun, ammo, gun price increase)
BTW: best idea Captain Solon has had ever 
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/22 18:16:43
I used to make arrow in the knee jokes, then I got whacked by the Dovakiin...in the knee 
Yes, I play GKs. "Cheese" you say? Take a look at this Terminator, notice he's pewter. Now notice the weight as I termi-sock you. *WACK* NOW!!! I been Playing GKs since their Force Weapons bypassed EW, everyone was WS5, Stormshields ONLY worked in CC, and Justicars cost 50 fricking points each!!! Don't you accuse me of Cheese! I waited for this Cheese and  if i am not going to use it against you. Why I aught to shove it in the heater grates and turn the Thermostat up to 70 degrees. CELSIUS! TAKE THAT 
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Space Wolf army. |
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2010/03/22 19:22:33
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I can see it (and I agree that 10 points for Storm bolters on Sternguard is plenty expensive).
It does make me want special issue ammo for my shooty Terminators though (which I already wanted but hey)...
Jack
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The rules:
1) Style over Substance.
2) Attitude is Everything.
3) Always take it to the Edge.
4) Break the Rules. |
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2010/03/23 07:33:44
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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they could pay extra for them?
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DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/23 18:56:56
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'm not sure they need to in the Thunderhammer+Stormshield heavy environment, but if so about 5 points is probably enough.
Jack
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The rules:
1) Style over Substance.
2) Attitude is Everything.
3) Always take it to the Edge.
4) Break the Rules. |
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2010/03/24 09:44:52
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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At first I really liked this idea but then I thought Sternguard shouldn't be the place that you have loads of stormbolters. Those are for Terminators and Grey Knights. I don't want Sternguard to be Grey Knights Mark 2. Maybe restrict this to ICs?
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2010/03/24 09:55:58
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Courageous Questing Knight
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fling, how about we limit it to two storm bolters per squad (like one for every 5.)
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DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
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2010/03/24 10:53:55
Subject: Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Yeah that would be fine.
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2010/03/24 16:47:07
Subject: Re:Improvements to Special issue ammo. :MaybeOPwarning:
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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I don't think it should be allowed on anything other than Sternguard, otherwise it overlaps their role too much.
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Armys: , , , Skaven
Number of Threads Won: 1 |
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Khador 16pts w/ Sorscha and Irusk 3 Wins/ 1 Ties/ 2 Losses(Irusk + Juggernaut = Super Happy fun time.)
Iron and Blood: Happygrunt's Blog 
