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So, I've been playing Tau for a few years now - with pretty good success. But recent Codex developments have...blah, blah, blah.

I've seen so many ludicrous Fandexes which essentially turn them into untoppable killer shootists (bo-ring) or have a completely flavourless Marine-equivalent army.

Now, all I fancy (other than half-price Devilfish...) is for the army to play a little more like the fluff - and be competitive.

So, here's what I'd do:

Give every unit in the Codex the Hit and Run USR and defensive grenades.

Why? Because it's been mentioned over and over again that the Tau will fall back rather than fight an unwinnable situation. Having the ability to pull out of a fight - in any assault phase - but using their naturally low Initiative value - would mean that the massed ranks of assaulting armies haven't got it all their own way.

It doesn't unbalance things against shooty armies and it's not going to make things radically different.

Oh, and defensive grenades? Because it's a technological advantage that, again, helps a little against the spiky, many-toothed hoard combat-lovin' armies without taking too much of an edge off.

Opinions?

Very nice, very simple. This would help tremendously. However, only give Tau units hit & run (I.E. not kroot or vespids) And some of our wargear needs fixing (Target priority crap)

Hmm I think that Kroot and Vespid should have it too. Because, while they're not Tau, they do fight in line with their tactics and obey their orders. So if the gaffer says leave this fight, they fall back - be they green bird-ninjas or novelty man-size wasps...

As for wargear fixes - I would love a ruling on multiple Flechette Dischargers and Target Locks but, hell, they're tiny quibbles.

+1 to this. Tau need it, and it works fluffwise.

Multiple flechettes? As in a piranha unit has 3 Piranhas w/ flechettes & gets assaulted? I'm pretty sure (dont have codex on hand) that the flechettes say every model that assaults takes a Str 4 hit so each model would take 3 Str 4 hits. Least that's how we played it.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Multiple flechettes? As in a piranha unit has 3 Piranhas w/ flechettes & gets assaulted? I'm pretty sure (dont have codex on hand) that the flechettes say every model that assaults takes a Str 4 hit so each model would take 3 Str 4 hits. Least that's how we played it.

Right, every model takes "a hit". It doesn't say every model takes one hit per flechette launcher, just "a hit" period if a flechette launcher is present. Hence the debate.

Another +1 for this. I think Vespid should get the rule (with the defensive grenades) because of their helmety things and combined tactics, their societies are more cooperative than the Kroot. Kroot should have the ability to buy defensives, but i do not think that they should have the special rule, they are Mercs after all.

Hmm the Kroot are mercenaries for other races, but they offer their services - and their lives - to the Tau in thanks for saving their race.

And if they were ordered to drop out of a fight, they would. They're incredibly skilled fighters, but they're not daft.

+2, one for each idea.

Very nice!

I tend to disagree with almost all of proposed rules here on Dakka but those are really nice.
Simple, fluff-wise correct and improving balance.

Thumbs up!

They're nice, simple rules that would benefit the army. I don't think they're enough to put Tau right, but they're a solid step in the right direction.

In terms of the kroot and vespid not having hit and run...maybe make it so that they can either pay or it or have it if a certain unit type is onthe table? Mayeb an ethereal ro soemthign? normal Tau get it for free.

Or you could attach the army wide special rule to say a command and control node?

I think instead of hit and run, kroot should have furious charge.

Maybe Tau would benefit from stubborn instead of hit and run because of the greater good being more important than themselves.

It'll be interesting to see how GW works the next Tau codex (hopefully soon so I can unshelve them).

It's a good idea, but I think combined with the fact that Hit and Run requires an initiative test, and Tau's horridly low initiative, it wouldn't work well as is. Your looking at 33%-50% chance of the USR working, that doesn't seem reliable enough. If they bumped up Tau Initiative then perhaps though.

Sounds like a fantastic idea, although call it tactical retreat and make them escape combat on a 4+ so that abismal I value won't hinder them!

Melchiour wrote:It's a good idea, but I think combined with the fact that Hit and Run requires an initiative test, and Tau's horridly low initiative, it wouldn't work well as is. Your looking at 33%-50% chance of the USR working, that doesn't seem reliable enough. If they bumped up Tau Initiative then perhaps though.

Which is exactly why I think it'd work. It's not game-changing - but it could change things at key stages and make the game a little more interesting.

Thanks for the positive comments - I'll give it a test run at the weekend against new Tyranids, Codex Marines and Chaos and see how it works out...

I ran a few games where shield drones provided 4+ invulnerables to the whole unit; it actually made them a viable army with no other changes.

1 unit of firewarriors tarpitted a daemon prince for 3 turns.

@OP

Good suggestion!

Also, I would suggest

- streamline markerlights, have them all networked
- and/or give new markerlight options (spend to allowing shooting into assault or be able to allocate wounds to specific group within a unit, etc)
- multiple unsaved pinning wounds stack to reduce Ld check

Maybe the Hit and Run rule can only be applied if an Ethereal is on the table? Wouldnt that make him of some use?

Marceh wrote:Maybe the Hit and Run rule can only be applied if an Ethereal is on the table? Wouldnt that make him of some use?

Or they've always got hit and run, but the ethereal improves Tau IN value.

I like sebster's addition. Maybe Tau within LOS get -1 to their Hit and Run roll?

Anywho, details, details. The basic idea was to do it as quickly and simply as possible.

Now, to solve world peace...

I can't beleive Tau players would want defensive grenades?!?!?!? That would completely stuff the Tau army and you may as well not bother taking your models out of the case.

Seriously why do you want you opponent to be able to keep assaulting you without you ever getting a chance to shoot him? Why?

Yeah I've suggested something along the lines of Ethereals giving a flee from combat rule but my was to outright avoid combat not try to run away once we've just been butchered.

How about changing the defensive grenades so that assaulting units lose d6" off their assault due to the disconcerting affects of the grenade...

Kinda like a ninja smoke bomb...*Poof* they're gone.

THat would be far more useful. You want to avoid assault but once you are in it you want it over in that first turn everytime. Defensive grenades help you in neither direction...

FlingitNow, I'm not so sure.

Look at it this way: a Squad of five Assault Marines attack my 12 Fire Warriors. Thanks to the defensive grenades, instead of three attacks each, they get two. Less Tau die. Then at the end of their assault phase, I get to roll for Hit and Run. In a third of cases, I can pull back and double-tap the Marines in my next turn.

Or, to think of it fluff-wise, an Assault Marine squad charge into the lines of the Tau Fire Warriors. But the Tau set off photo grenades, disorientating the Marines and taking the edge off their charge. They get hit, and some killed, but they manage to pull back and shoot the over-reaching Astartes...

Look at it this way: a Squad of five Assault Marines attack my 12 Fire Warriors. Thanks to the defensive grenades, instead of three attacks each, they get two. Less Tau die. Then at the end of their assault phase, I get to roll for Hit and Run. In a third of cases, I can pull back and double-tap the Marines in my next turn.

Yes whilst in 2 third's of cases your FWs now become a nice pillow that those assault marines can butcher in your turn. Then in their turn they can assault again a different unit and you've never got a chance to shoot at them...

So for every turn you get to have survivors of an assault rapidfiring a unit they will have 2 turns of said unit not being shot at by ANYTHING in your army.

Trust me this will only makes things worse for the Tau, we need to get that turn of shooting in after their first assault hits home and you are reducing the chances of that for a 1 in 3 chance of a mauled unit getting to rapid fire? No thanks.

You're confusing me.

So, I get assaulted in their turn. If I survive, I'm still locked in combat for a whole turn of the game.

Then at the end of that turn, chances are the Marines wipe me out and consolidate, then THEY get to move on again in their next turn.

All that Hit and Run does is give me the OPTION to try and leave combat in either player's turn at the end of the assault phase. How is there any way in the world that leave at the end of the enemy's assault phase, giving you a chance to move then shoot in your turn a good thing? Please do tell me?

It is not the hit and run causing the problem but the defensive grenades. The defenasive grenades increase the chance of the combat lasting for more than 1 turn. You aren't going to survive more than 2 turns (in the baste majority of cases) so you want the combat done in turn 1. At the end of that turn you want to be running away or wiped out so you can fire at the enemy. If you are locked in combat because you survived because of the defensive grenades you are removing that opportunity to fire at the opponent meaning he can wipe you out in the 2nd turn of combat and then in his turn assault you again and you won't have had a chance to shoot at him.

If you are a Tau player you want to either avoid the combat or ensure it is over by the end of the first round. Defensive grenades are the exact opposite of what you want.