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As an American gamer, I am just wondering: In the UK, are gaming measurements such as range in cm, or are the English forced to use the Standard system (inches & feet) for some strange reason.

nope it's in inches and feet just the same for us; same rulebook etc.

HOWEVER, in Japan/other Asian countries, they're in metric if I recall correctly. The measurements are merely doubled from the ones we have, so 2 centimeters = 1 inch. Which is problematic, since a centimeter is 2.54 or something to an inch, so the games are usually much smaller. I remember someone talking about this... I believe it was Roleplayer.

you know that feet and inches is the imprial system - as in British imperialism, we're not like those continental namby pamby napoleonic metricists!

I object we use the metric system but for wargames we don't since the tape measures we use have both cm and inches. Before that we used the rough formula of 1 inch is 2,5 cm so 4 inch would be 10 cm

Grtz
L.D.

I say, it looks like I've touched of some feelings in other countries. The power of the internets...

I would'v preferred it in metric... Imperial is such a shoddy system imo...

This ties in with the argument about which side of the road to drive on...

Napoleon and the French are to blame for that as well, but I'm left handed so, I win.

In the end it all boils down to what your used to anyway.

Fun fact: The red GW rulers are marked with lines 25mm apart, so slightly less than a proper brittish inch of 25.4mm. The difference is 1.6%. Over long ranges this makes a noticeable difference.

Soladrin wrote:In the end it all boils down to what your used to anyway.

That's the most important point right there.

I fully recognize that metric is a more precise way of measuring things than is Imperial, but I grew up with Imperial and it's what I'm used to. I can use the metric system quite well, but I simply prefer Imperial because it's the most familiar to me. This is why when the US goverment made a big push to try to get the country to adopt the metric system back in the late '70s it met with alot of resistance and ultimately failed.

GW is a British based company, so of course it is going to use Imperial as it's standard way of measuring. It's not universal of course. Table Top Games, another british company which is best known for the micro-armour rules set Challenger uses metric measurment for example.

Finally, some recent wargame sets have nicely sidestepped the metric vs. Imperial debate by not specifying a standardized meathod of measuring. The ancient period set Field of Glory uses "movement units" in it's text and leaves these up to the players based upon what they prefer and what is apropriate to the scale. for 15mm games in the US one MU=1". Likewise the recent (and excellent) Napoleonic rules set Lasalle uses "base widths" to measure ranges. This works out to be 40mm in a 15mm scale game. Most players have been making measuring sticks for the game so it works out fine.

TR

IIRC BFG, Epic 40k and LotR all use CM while Spess mahrines 40k uses inches. Though, Trench makes a good point. So long as it's consistent, you can replace inches with CM, MM, Feet, Furlongs or Yards and it would all be the same.

Gwar! wrote:IIRC BFG, Epic 40k and LotR all use CM while Spess mahrines 40k uses inches. Though, Trench makes a good point. So long as it's consistent, you can replace inches with CM, MM, Feet, Furlongs or Yards and it would all be the same.

Except that in switching from inches to cm you'd be reducing movement and weapon ranges while base sizes remained the same. While the issue might be mostly trivial, the game wouldn't remain exactly the same. Unless you converted to cm and multiplied movement speeds and weapon ranges out by 2.5, but why would you bother?



Meanwhile, the inch is a decent distance for the purposes of 40K. A smaller measurement such as cm would be fiddly and harder to estimate. Australia is almost completely metric, so when I started with the game I had no idea how big an inch was. I picked it up quick enough.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:HOWEVER, in Japan/other Asian countries, they're in metric if I recall correctly. The measurements are merely doubled from the ones we have, so 2 centimeters = 1 inch. Which is problematic, since a centimeter is 2.54 or something to an inch, so the games are usually much smaller. I remember someone talking about this... I believe it was Roleplayer.

Here in Spain we use centimetres too. I don't know in Asian countries, but here GW uses to convert 1"=2.5cm. But they never leave .5 cm in measures, so it uses to be like this:

1" = 3 cm
2" = 5 cm
3" = 8 cm
4" = 10 cm
5" = 12 cm (or maybe 13? I don't remember now)
6" = 15 cm
[...]
12" = 30 cm
24" = 60 cm
36" = 90 cm
48" = 120 cm

It means, for example, we have to keep 3 cm between minis if they are not in close combat, and we don't scatter 1D6 inches. We roll 1D6 and the look at a table where it says something like "a result of 1 means 3cm, 2 is 5cm" etc etc etc.

When I started browsing the web looking for 40k stuff, I used to think that converting measures was a pain in the ass. I have to do it talking about rumours, rules, tactics... Now I think it should be easier if we all use the same measuring system. I wouldn't mind playing in inches now. But only now. I'm pretty sure that new players would be annoyed if so happend.

The decimal system was forced on the UK and decades on we're still stuck in an odd half-way state. BTW, what the US calls the Standard system was born here as the Imperial system. A much cooler name for 40K fans!

Road measurements are still in miles, beer is still in pints. Lots of things are still sold in Imperial measures but dual marked (e.g. x.xxL / Y pints)

My generation (I'm 32) grew up using both fairly interchangably. Younger people seem only to get taught metric in school but encounter Imperial measures day-to-day and are rather uneasy about how the two go together (they know centimeters, meters and kilometers but they're not really sure how big a km is or how miles fit into things)

Mellon wrote:Fun fact: The red GW rulers are marked with lines 25mm apart, so slightly less than a proper brittish inch of 25.4mm. The difference is 1.6%. Over long ranges this makes a noticeable difference.

Keep this to yourself. The WAAC players will find out and use it to their advantage.

I find it funny reading some of the posts here. Explain this one to me. How come movment is in inches, but the bases are in metric?

Metric isn't more precise than Imperial. It's just easier to work out in base 10. Try to get a precise measurement of 1/8th of a cm.

Plenty of top quality engineering has been done in Imperial.

Historical rules offering 25mm and 15mm options generally use inches for the 25mm and cm for the 15mm.

(I am in the UK.)

Who on Earth uses the stoopid stick? Tape mesure for me
(note* for some odd reason beyound me the site has given me the US flag insteed of my right full Union Jack )

We use imperial system (inches) - we invented it in the first place. In general in the UK we use both systems because europe wants us to use metric.

cssj wrote:We use imperial system (inches) - we invented it in the first place. In general in the UK we use both systems because europe wants us to use metric.

Very ture, I tend to use both kinds of mesurments when i'm building stuff, Feet'n inches for the big bits, centimeter'n millimeters for little bits.

Davor wrote:I find it funny reading some of the posts here. Explain this one to me. How come movment is in inches, but the bases are in metric?

The mysteries of life... Why do people use SI when determining the amount of drugs (2 kilos of smack), and then imperial when referring to everything else?

Personally, I don't like imperial (12" = 1', 1 mile = 1760 yards = :S ), but it works. The problem is, as someone mentioned, inconsistency. As a soon-to-be engineer, I have much experience with how much trouble inconsistency can cause.

I'd like to blame cultural reasons for the conflicting measurements. The metric system is very much a child of the Enlightenment historica era. Mostly introduced and enforced in the revolutionary spirit after the french revolution. (this might be a reason why the brits cling to the Imperial system, they seem to have a thing with the french...) The original reason was that our math system is base 10, so to have measurements consistently in the same base makes all sorts of calculations much faster.

Both the imperial system and the metric system (a few hundred years later) were introduced to facilitate trade over longer distances. Since before standardisation it was hard for a trader to know the size of the foot/yard/gallon she/he was buying things in. Hence the brittish decided on a standard measurement and enforced close copies of it to be used all over their imperium. These measurements were later renamed by the freedom-loving americans, who still wanted the nice standardised system, but didn't want to acknowledge that they were a product of the Imperium. The french did the similar thing but with the metric system. Falsifying standard measurements was for a long time a criminal offense worthy of hanging. As a fun note: The french even tried to decimalize the clock. 20 hours per day, 100 minutes per hour and 100 seconds per minute. Even a 10 day week. This did not catch at all.

While we are at that subject: An american here might be able to tell me if it is a myth that French Fries are now universally called Freedom Fries in the states? It sounds like an urband legend to illustrate our european illusions over american attitudes...

I think GWs engineering department have used metric system all of the time, and I think GW introduced the Imperial system to make it more accessible and possibly feel more "fantasy" for their customer base.

Mellon wrote:I'd like to blame cultural reasons for the conflicting measurements. The metric system is very much a child of the Enlightenment historica era. Mostly introduced and enforced in the revolutionary spirit after the french revolution. (this might be a reason why the brits cling to the Imperial system, they seem to have a thing with the french...) The original reason was that our math system is base 10, so to have measurements consistently in the same base makes all sorts of calculations much faster.

Both the imperial system and the metric system (a few hundred years later) were introduced to facilitate trade over longer distances. Since before standardisation it was hard for a trader to know the size of the foot/yard/gallon she/he was buying things in. Hence the brittish decided on a standard measurement and enforced close copies of it to be used all over their imperium. These measurements were later renamed by the freedom-loving americans, who still wanted the nice standardised system, but didn't want to acknowledge that they were a product of the Imperium. The french did the similar thing but with the metric system. Falsifying standard measurements was for a long time a criminal offense worthy of hanging. As a fun note: The french even tried to decimalize the clock. 20 hours per day, 100 minutes per hour and 100 seconds per minute. Even a 10 day week. This did not catch at all.

While we are at that subject: An american here might be able to tell me if it is a myth that French Fries are now universally called Freedom Fries in the states? It sounds like an urband legend to illustrate our european illusions over american attitudes...

I think GWs engineering department have used metric system all of the time, and I think GW introduced the Imperial system to make it more accessible and possibly feel more "fantasy" for their customer base.

LOL
A thing with the French is abit of an understatement

In a similar vein, I recently bought some figure bases on the internet. However, being a child of Imperial mesurements, I ordered 20mm instead of 25mm.
The bases are fine, the figures fit (better, in my opinion) and stay upright.
But does this present a problem with gaming? Presumably it can effect movement/ close combat/ unit cohesion?
Advice, please.

IG GENERAL wrote:In a similar vein, I recently bought some figure bases on the internet. However, being a child of Imperial mesurements, I ordered 20mm instead of 25mm.
The bases are fine, the figures fit (better, in my opinion) and stay upright.
But does this present a problem with gaming? Presumably it can effect movement/ close combat/ unit cohesion?
Advice, please.

Yes, you are a horrible WAAC TFG Gamer who will stop at nothing to make sure no-one has any fun!

IG GENERAL: Don't listen to gwar! He is just being silly again ;-)

I think you will be all fine. The effect on gaming is rather small, and mostly to your detriment. Only if you plan on going to a hardcore tournament or if your regular opponents whine about it should you consider swapping bases, or regular opponents.

IG GENERAL wrote:In a similar vein, I recently bought some figure bases on the internet. However, being a child of Imperial mesurements, I ordered 20mm instead of 25mm.
The bases are fine, the figures fit (better, in my opinion) and stay upright.
But does this present a problem with gaming? Presumably it can effect movement/ close combat/ unit cohesion?
Advice, please.

It will tend to pack your models slightly closer together, a small disadvantage against blasts and templates. The maximum distance the front edge of a unit can be upon disembarking from a transport will be 5mm shorter. In a very large assault it could be a small benefit because more guys can be within 2" of the front row. At this scale it isn't really worth worrying about. Base sizes get to be a problem when you do something assinine like putting a sergeant on a special made gigantic diorama base so his unit can assault an inch or two farther after jumping out of their land raider.