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HQ

Vulkan He'stan
@ 190 pts.

TROOPS

Tactical Squad ( x 10 )
- Meltagun
- Multi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
- Drop Pod
@ 220 pts. ( 22 pts. / model )

Tactical Squad ( x 10 )
- Meltagun
- Multi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
- Rhino
- Dozer Blade
@ 225 pts. ( 23 pts. / model )

Tactical Squad ( x 10 )
- Meltagun
- Multi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
- Rhino
- Dozer Blade
@ 225 pts. ( 23 pts. / model )


FAST ATTACK

Land Speeder
- Multi-Melta
@ 60 pts.

Land Speeder
- Multi-Melta
@ 60 pts.

Land Speeder
- Multi-Melta
@ 60 pts.


ELITES

Ironclad Dreadnought
- DCCW + Meltagun
- DCCW + Heavy Flamer ( replacing Storm Bolter )
- Drop Pod
@ 180 pts.

Ironclad Dreadnought
- DCCW + Meltagun
- DCCW + Heavy Flamer ( replacing Storm Bolter )
- Drop Pod
@ 180 pts.

Assault Terminators ( x 5 )
- T-Hammer/S-Shield * 4
- Paired Lightning Claws * 1
@ 200 pts. ( 40 pts. / model )
- Land Raider Redeemer ( Dedi )
- Multi-Melta
- @ 250 pts.



HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator
- Siege Armour
@ 125 pts.

Vindicator
- Siege Armour
@ 125 pts.



Total: HQ + Troops + Elites + Fast Attack + Heavy Support = 190 + 670 + 710 + 180 + 250 = 2000 pts.

Really liking the Godhammer, but Vulkan really doesn't have anywhere else to go, and the Land Raider Redeemer is already a prime target; they get their junk trashed far too often for my liking. My aim is to increase threat density overall by diversifying. I am liking the look of a third Vindi, or possibly a Dakka Pred, since I don't have any HF Speeders.

List aims to close quickly while I drop double Dreads unsupported. A shaky move in 2000 points, considering the amount of anti-tank most units are toting, but I have the option of dropping around the centre to camp objectives and increase my rolling wall of 13 AV, as well as dropping a Tact Squad to deny flank. Speeders are there for fast anti-tank, to deny flank with Dpod Tact Squad, and for reserves against gunlines or a shooty list with second turn. Dozers on Rhinos is really kind of silly, but this list definitely aims for first turn twelve inch advance, and I had the points to spare. The list is quite light on HQ/Troops, but I am pretty smart about my combat squadding.

Again, to reiterate, I'm looking for a way to diversify my threats and decentralize my points cost. Godhammer is amazing, but I am hooped if my Raider gets popped.

Nobody has comments on this list? I didn't realize it was that bad..

I'd take melta guns on the ironclads and I'm not a big fan of MM on tac squads, but that's my personal preference.

As you pointed out, there is a risk that you're delivering your list piecemeal to your opponent. Otherwise it looks good to me.

Shrubs wrote:I'd take melta guns on the ironclads and I'm not a big fan of MM on tac squads, but that's my personal preference.

I usually combat squad them, leaving 4 Rines with a MM to footslog and hold down objectives, while my Meltagun/Combi-Melta Sgt. roll up in the Rhino. I combat squad pretty aggressively, which doesn't always work out for me. Ideally I would like to keep a full-strength Tact squad to roll across the map with, so I am thinking about switching to a Flamer/Combi-Flamer/Heavy Weapon squad that I don't have to combat squad to get maximum effectiveness. Unfortunately, none of the other options seem super-amazing, except maybe some more long-range firepower in the form of Lascannons.

I'm finding issues with horde lists, and I know my melta/flamer balance is out of whack. But I enjoy the opportunity to do so because of my Dpod allowing me a free 12" advance, unless they choose to ignore Dreads. I don't want to split my squads in terms of melta/flamer ( like, getting meltagun/combi-flamer ), but I don't want to allow the opponent to pick off the Rhinos with my Melta units in them either. How do I get more Flamer?!

You could put HF's on the Speeders. Not sure where you could get the points from though

Its a decent list.
I'd give the Speeders multi-meltas and heavy flamers.

Vindicators just aren't reliable. They can get their pts back in one shot - if you're lucky - but that doesn't happen. For example; if you have a raider and a vindy, the vindy'll go down first. So I'd definitely drop them. You need to maximize Vulcan's abilities, so I'd recommend putting him in a pod with 10 sternguard w/ 2 heavy flamers, 5ish combi melta's, maybe throw in a few combi-flamers or plasma's. Tbh, you may as well drop the MM's on the tac squads. They need to be mobile. Give 'em Lascannons or Plasma cannons, making your rhino's moving firebases. Maybe drop an Ironclad, because you're right it is risky - a bit too risky!
As for the speeders - you're taking them seperately! That's three easy kill points! Take them as one squad if you have to, as just one melta probably won't kill much, so this will maximize and focus their shootyness. Also, the rest of your army is shooting as well, don't forget that. You definitely need to get a raider of some sort, with extra armour, stick your termies in with a librarian termy with a SS, null zone and Gate of infinity. Or you could switch out GoI for Might of the Ancients - personally I would take MotA because LR's are fairly reliable, but it's the risk you take, right? Null zone is a must for the chance daemon army. I have a vulcan list on here somewhere, go check it out for pointers if you want ;D

wuestenfux wrote:Its a decent list.
I'd give the Speeders multi-meltas and heavy flamers.

What would you suggest I cut for the extra HFs? I would probably only add them to two/three, so I could cut the third Speeder and sink some points into vehicle upgrades..

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Vindicators just aren't reliable. They can get their pts back in one shot - if you're lucky - but that doesn't happen. For example; if you have a raider and a vindy, the vindy'll go down first. So I'd definitely drop them. You need to maximize Vulcan's abilities, so I'd recommend putting him in a pod with 10 sternguard w/ 2 heavy flamers, 5ish combi melta's, maybe throw in a few combi-flamers or plasma's.

If I did put him in a Dpod, I'd need an additional Pod for first turn 3-Drop. What would you recommend I cut for Sternguards? A fully kitted out squad of them is probably somewhere in the 300's.. so not even dropping a Dread from my list will make the room. Also, I like pairs. If I drop a Dread, I would have to drop the other one and replace it completely.

If I cut a Vindi, I'd probably have to cut both. Dakka Preds are an option, but don't really emphasize Vulkan's Chapter Tactics replacement well. I will not take Las Preds. Auto/Las Preds seem to be more transport hunting, which I don't really have an issue with since my goal is running my guys straight up to meet them anyway. I would ideally like to keep my 13+ AV screen for my Rhinos, but Preds and Vindis seem the only option available to me. I could grab another Raider with the points, but I don't have anything to transport in it.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Tbh, you may as well drop the MM's on the tac squads. They need to be mobile. Give 'em Lascannons or Plasma cannons, making your rhino's moving firebases. Maybe drop an Ironclad, because you're right it is risky - a bit too risky!

Noted. Probably gonna give them Lascannons, in that case. Again, I should probably say I plan on keeping one MM squad to combat squad at home and hold down the fort vs. enemy Dpod lists or flying dudes.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
As for the speeders - you're taking them seperately! That's three easy kill points! Take them as one squad if you have to, as just one melta probably won't kill much, so this will maximize and focus their shootyness. Also, the rest of your army is shooting as well, don't forget that.

I take them as three because I like having the option of reserving as many as I want to Deep Strike later on. Fast Skimmers with MMs are an easy way to pop heavy enemy armor or MCs from DS. Kill points problem is definitely noted, but the fact that I can move and shoot separately is a big deal. Since MMs are mostly going to be firing at enemy armour or big guys anyway, it really doesn't matter that I don't overwhelm them with wounds from one squad.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
You definitely need to get a raider of some sort, with extra armour, stick your termies in with a librarian termy with a SS, null zone and Gate of infinity. Or you could switch out GoI for Might of the Ancients - personally I would take MotA because LR's are fairly reliable, but it's the risk you take, right? Null zone is a must for the chance daemon army. I have a vulcan list on here somewhere, go check it out for pointers if you want ;D

I have a Raider. It's listed under the Godhammer squad because it's Dedi and I wanted to let everyone know I had a Heavy slot open. I could easily drop Dozers from Rhinos and something else for Extra Armor. I do like Gate Librarians, but I normally pair them with Sternguard in a more dedicated Dpod list to maximize Gate's effect. I agree that a Librarian would definitely be my second HQ choice, as I can stick them with so many squads.

Oh, didn't see the raider. With Vulcan lists, either take 6 Dreads with MotF or none at all. Simple as, and also on the note of vindy's, they don't need to die to be useless - bye bye Demolisher cannon and it's over. Seriously, though, 3 separate speeders is a terrible idea. Your opponent will have to kill all three to get 1 kill point, and with their mobility they might kill 2 or 3 tanks if they have MM's! As for holding objectives, a Lascannon is even more necessary than for the mobile squads! But it's much better to save the points and just buy 5 scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles and 1 missile launcher. Roughly 100pts to sit on an objective deep in cover - one of the best idea's for marines, and it opens up a lot of points. Also, instead of speeders, you could take the slightly less user-friendly but no less effective Attack Bike duo squads. I.e. they could charge a guardsman squad and wipe it out, and even kill a few leman russ' or land raiders! But either way, Sternguard are seriously, the best option for this list! Sure, it clocks in at an average of 335pts, with a powerfist, 5 or more combi weapons, melta bombs and two heavy flamers + pod + vulcan, but it is worth it! It can come down, take out a vehicle or just use their own special ammunition, bust squads with their flamers (Stealers, Tau, Guard - they're all screwed against this, remember you have 3 in that squad re-rolling to wound!). They can receive a charge well and give a hard charge back, as they're still veterans. LD 9, 10 with Vulcan, means they can get right in their and stand firm. Also, they probably won't take much tests from CC as they are, while not CC beasts, still very decent in an assault.

Oh yeah, back to vindies, none is better than 1! If you do take them, take 3 with a techmarine behind them. But it just isn't a safe bet! 13 front is nice, but 24" means you'll expose your side most of the time. So drop them all. Also, include atleast 1 plasma cannon, because 1 lil' pie plate can change a game - 1 lucky shot could take out 5 terminators, which is a big thing. Also, get a Powerfist, Meltabombs and a combi-melta on each sergeant (except maybe the scouts, i.e. if they do get into assault they're screwed anyway :/)

Definitely in with the Librarian.

Also, something you may not have considered is land speeder storms. Here's a link to my 1750pts list, hopefully, and most likely, it'll give you some idea's to refine your list more to tourny standards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282793.page

It's a pretty good list. Armies like IG AirCav, Mech Eldar and Mech Dark Eldar are going to run rings around you though, as you have no long range weapons at all.

Those Land Speeders need Heavy Flamers, for dualities sake, and so the speeders don't become useless after loosing one weapon.
One Land Raider paints itself as a pretty big target at 2000 points, to be honest I'd go with two or none at all.
I'd consider taking a Librarian at this points level, perhaps in another Land Raider full of TH/SS Terminators.

Edit: Oh dear...

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Seriously, though, 3 separate speeders is a terrible idea. Your opponent will have to kill all three to get 1 kill point, and with their mobility they might kill 2 or 3 tanks if they have MM's!

Horrible advice. Taking the speeders as separate choices is far better than clumping them into a single squadron. That way, they can take on multiple threats, aren't as vulnerable to blast templates, aren't as vulnerable to multiple shot-high strength weapons (such as autocannons, assault cannons) and don't die on a 4+. Unless you want to take more than 3 and don't need the FA slots, there is literally no reason to put them in squadrons.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:But it's much better to save the points and just buy 5 scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles and 1 missile launcher. Roughly 100pts to sit on an objective deep in cover - one of the best idea's for marines, and it opens up a lot of points.

Not needed at all. Combat Squads can perform the exact same function for roughly the same price, have a better armour save, better BS, and can take a missile launcher for free. Besides, he has a Tactical Squad in a drop pod that he can use to claim objectives if need be.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Also, get a Powerfist, Meltabombs and a combi-melta on each sergeant (except maybe the scouts, i.e. if they do get into assault they're screwed anyway :/)

I completely disagree. Tactical squads don't need Powerfists in a Vulkan list that is already full of TH/SS Terminators. Tactical squads don't win games, they are there to provide fire support, there's no point in spending points on upgrades that they are never going to use.

Don't take Sternguard in a Drop Pod in this list, they just don't fit. The Ironclads should do fine as long as you play them sensibly.

EDIT: Whoops, missed your post there, Darkvoid.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Oh, didn't see the raider. With Vulcan lists, either take 6 Dreads with MotF or none at all. Simple as, and also on the note of vindy's, they don't need to die to be useless - bye bye Demolisher cannon and it's over.

I had the idea for Dread spam Vulkan lists, since Ironclads are AMAZING. Except for the fact that more mobile armies tend to wipe the board with me, and I need to table for the win. Also because new BA 'Dex is out, and they probably have advantage here.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Seriously, though, 3 separate speeders is a terrible idea. Your opponent will have to kill all three to get 1 kill point, and with their mobility they might kill 2 or 3 tanks if they have MM's!

Noted again. I will most likely consolidate them into two FA slots of two each, or just one of three, depending on my final number.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
As for holding objectives, a Lascannon is even more necessary than for the mobile squads! But it's much better to save the points and just buy 5 scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles and 1 missile launcher. Roughly 100pts to sit on an objective deep in cover - one of the best idea's for marines, and it opens up a lot of points.

I like it, but it doesn't emphasize Vulkan's awesome special ability. I also play Raven Guard, so I know what kind of damage Scouts with 3+ cover can do. A viable option though.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Also, instead of speeders, you could take the slightly less user-friendly but no less effective Attack Bike duo squads. I.e. they could charge a guardsman squad and wipe it out, and even kill a few leman russ' or land raiders!

Thought about it. See comment further down the post. Basically came down to Speeder vs. MMABs, and I picked Speeders because three just gave me 2000 pts. spot on.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
But either way, Sternguard are seriously, the best option for this list! Sure, it clocks in at an average of 335pts, with a powerfist, 5 or more combi weapons, melta bombs and two heavy flamers + pod + vulcan, but it is worth it! It can come down, take out a vehicle or just use their own special ammunition, bust squads with their flamers (Stealers, Tau, Guard - they're all screwed against this, remember you have 3 in that squad re-rolling to wound!). They can receive a charge well and give a hard charge back, as they're still veterans. LD 9, 10 with Vulcan, means they can get right in their and stand firm. Also, they probably won't take much tests from CC as they are, while not CC beasts, still very decent in an assault.

I really do like Sternguard man, and I see your list. I am just hesitant about dropping my Ironclads for them, since that means they'll be dropping in unsupported. I could take out my Godhammer, but then I would have no use for a Raider apart from 14 AV ( a big reason, but I do like using my Raiders to maximum effect ). However.. it would free up enough room to squeeze in a Sternguard AND a pimpin' HQ. But you disagree with halfsies Dread lists.. so I don't know how I feel about dropping my Sterns without armour backup.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Oh yeah, back to vindies, none is better than 1! If you do take them, take 3 with a techmarine behind them. But it just isn't a safe bet! 13 front is nice, but 24" means you'll expose your side most of the time. So drop them all. Also, include atleast 1 plasma cannon, because 1 lil' pie plate can change a game - 1 lucky shot could take out 5 terminators, which is a big thing. Also, get a Powerfist, Meltabombs and a combi-melta on each sergeant (except maybe the scouts, i.e. if they do get into assault they're screwed anyway :/)

I have tried triple Vindi spam. I could do it in this list by cutting from Elites quite easily. In fact, my 1500 pts. Salamander list uses triple Vindis! I will consider. What do you think I should remove for your proposed add-ins?

Fist is debatable. Definitely my first pick ( after combi-meltas, which I have already ) for Sgt. upgrades, since that means I can take on MCs/walkers in CC, if they somehow survive to get that close. MBs, possibly, but I don't feel I really need them, since I can glance/pen any non-walker vehicle to death with Kraks, barring Monoliths. Walkers pose a true issue for me, but most people don't like to get so close to so many meltas, especially with Dpod Assault ( the most common Dread list I see ).

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Definitely in with the Librarian.

Me too! Need to figure out what to cut D:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Also, something you may not have considered is land speeder storms. Here's a link to my 1750pts list, hopefully, and most likely, it'll give you some idea's to refine your list more to tourny standards.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282793.page

Thanks for the link. To offer some humble criticism, I am a bit leery of the Las Pred, but it is definitely a very strong roving firebase.

As I said above, I also play Raven Guard. I use Storms pretty often in combination with min'd CC Scout squads, or just in general. They work very well, but I don't have enough Scout squads to guarantee that the Storm would be made a primary target, even though it is a flying transport with strong Heavy Weapon options.

unbeliever87 wrote:It's a pretty good list. Armies like IG AirCav, Mech Eldar and Mech Dark Eldar are going to run rings around you though, as you have no long range weapons at all.

Those Land Speeders need Heavy Flamers, for dualities sake, and so the speeders don't become useless after loosing one weapon.
One Land Raider paints itself as a pretty big target at 2000 points, to be honest I'd go with two or none at all.

I tried to include Speeders for that very reason, but I can see what you're getting at. What would you suggest I cut for an improvement on this?

My idea would probably be to cut the Dpodded Ironclads ( even though I really like them ), convert my Dpod Tact to Rhino ( easy ), and consolidate my Speeders into one or two squads and add HFs. Then either more Speeders, or MMABs, which fit very well with the theme of my Meltaspam list, and was a close contender vs. Speeders. Speeders won simply because it gave more tactical options with reliable reserves + DS, in combination with Dpods.

I am working on the long-range issue. Probably by giving my Tact squads Las instead of MM. Also, cutting Vindis in place for Raiders is pretty easy, or I could go easy on the FA and add only one or two more Speeders, and then stick in another Raider. The thing is, I don't want to have two Godhammer squads, so I need something to stick inside. Thoughts?

I made some changes to my original post above.

Changing the Redeemer to a regular Godhammer and taking Lascannons on the Tactical Squads would be a great start to give you more lang range firepower.

Adding a second Land Raider is pretty easy for you here; drop the Ironclads and Vindicators, then take another squad of TH/SS Terminators with a Crusader or a Redeemer. Then if you can find the points, add in a Librarian in TDA w/SS, stick him inside the Godhammer and stick Vulkan inside the Crusader/Redeemer.

unbeliever87 wrote:
Horrible advice. Taking the speeders as separate choices is far better than clumping them into a single squadron. That way, they can take on multiple threats, aren't as vulnerable to blast templates, aren't as vulnerable to multiple shot-high strength weapons (such as autocannons, assault cannons) and don't die on a 4+. Unless you want to take more than 3 and don't need the FA slots, there is literally no reason to put them in squadrons.

It seems we have a disagreement in choice here. I have no qualms about testing both. I feel that both of you raise a valid point, and my first order of business is testing squads of two each. I think it's a good compromise between tactical flexibility and KP reduction, and it allows me to take another option in my FA slot.

unbeliever87 wrote:
Not needed at all. Combat Squads can perform the exact same function for roughly the same price, have a better armour save, better BS, and can take a missile launcher for free. Besides, he has a Tactical Squad in a drop pod that he can use to claim objectives if need be.

I do Dpod camp objectives quite often. It's just a sensible thing to do, and creates more armor for my opponent to remove while I am rolling up in Rhinos. So much so that I've even debated grabbing Deathwind Launchers on them to make them a serious target, and deterrence to horde after I pop transports with Ironclads.

unbeliever87 wrote:
I completely disagree. Tactical squads don't need Powerfists in a Vulkan list that is already full of TH/SS Terminators. Tactical squads don't win games, they are there to provide fire support, there's no point in spending points on upgrades that they are never going to use.

Yes, I do tend to play very conservatively with my Tact squads, even though I've stated multiple times that I quite often run my vehicles up 12" first turn. I don't run very many Troops options at this points level, and getting my guys locked in CC with ANYTHING mechanized is pretty stupid with the amount of melta I have. I have issues with MCs right now, yes, but Godhammer is a pretty big deterrent for anything like that.

unbeliever87 wrote:
Don't take Sternguard in a Drop Pod in this list, they just don't fit. The Ironclads should do fine as long as you play them sensibly.

DUDE! Sorry, forgot to mention, don't look at the OP in my thread for sallies! Later down the bottom is a revised list - that's the one you want to look at! So take a look again... Lol, soz xDD

I know what you mean about leaving the sternguard unsupported, but the enemy either over commits or under-commits. They're pretty much bound to make up their points, if played right. If you're worried then take one of your Tac squads in another pod, they can use the aftermath of the sternguard's appearance (guess what that will look like... HOLE IN ENEMY FORCES) to get objec-T's or just kill stuff. I know Meltabombs is unnecessary, it's just a failsafe. Also, I would take the scouts, because it saves points, plus you get a ML - they're ideally suited for this.

Basically, I'd just go read my 2nd/revised list... I have little else to say! ~goes and plays DoW FoK [or DoW2 CR]~

It seems we have a disagreement in choice here. I have no qualms about testing both. I feel that both of you raise a valid point, and my first order of business is testing squads of two each. I think it's a good compromise between tactical flexibility and KP reduction, and it allows me to take another option in my FA slot.

Play testing both setups is a fantastic idea. Take the exact same army, in your first battle keep the Land Speeders in a single squadron, then in the second battle take them as separate slots - see which gives you more flexibility and greater survivability. It does suck losing all your Fast Attack choices, but the extra flexibility is worth it.

My personal preference is MM/HF Speeders over MM Attack Bikes, mainly because speeders can maneuver around terrain a lot easier, and don't need to jump through hoops to get their flat out cover save.

You shouldn't be having issues with MC's, that's what your TH/SS Terminators go after. The Lascannons on the Land Raider, and the Lascannons on the tactical squads, are purely to take out transports and other low armoured threats at range.

Well said, Unbeliever. Well, that's a pretty good breakdown of the bare bones of a Vulcan list! Now we wait for a reply...
;D

Yeah, Speeders in stand-alone squads offer a lot more flexibility. I found that I sometimes had trouble maneuvering around difficult/dangerous terrain with a pair, but it also drew some heavy fire that would've otherwise smoked my paired Dreads. I will probably up the Speeder count to a paired squad, and two squads of one Speeder each. See below for how.

In other news, Ironclads offer a SERIOUSLY resistant target with first turn. Watching min'd SM squads with a single Melta end up at 7" from my Dreads is always a laugh, and my Ironclads have even survived a couple 6" melta shots, and then proceeded to tarpit a good portion of the opponent's Troop choices. I think Dreads are a solid choice in a Vulkan list, as I mitigate a large percentage of my really crucial misses with all the relentless melta/flamer they can stick on.

So right now, I feel as though the pieces of my list are lacking substance. I'm considering going to 2500 pts. so I can flesh it out a bit more. My add-ons would probably be:
- More FA, most likely in the form of a Speeder or two. Also HFs.
- Probably upping the number of Pods ( and thus Ironclads ) to three or even four on the first turn. This will require
-> Master of the Forge, or dropping my Godhammer squad. Which is iffy, since they're the only squad I have for carrying Vulkan around.
- Lascannons in place of MMs on all Tactical Squads. Gonna have a larger number of Dreads and Speeders anyway.
- A return to paired Vindis. A wall of AV 13/12 should be more than enough to keep them sufficiently bogged down for my Vindis to close, along with the rest of my close-range anti-armor.


In preparation, I have a few questions to ask the Dakka community.

What is your view on Rifle Dreads ( double Autocannon Dreads ) or Dakka Dreads ( some combination of Heavy Weapons )? I think this would allow me to maximize the MotF's ability, since I for sure want at least three Ironclads dropping first turn. Empty pods are a good way to camp objectives, provide cover, and generally be annoying. They also ensure I am not seriously gimped by bad Reserves rolls.

Combat squadding + footslogging half-sized/full-sized Tactical Squads? I will be Combat Squadding at least one squad per game. Rhinos are an excellent way to house Lascannons safely while maintaining your advance, but a strong firebase is a strong tactic when paired with Dpods. This would also give me the option of adding empty Dpods and footslogging a ten-man Tact Squad for an extra drop.

Conversion Beamer. I've seen the destructive firepower it can bring to the table, but I don't have anywhere to put my MotF. Scouts in cover with Cloaks are supposed to be amazing, but they lose Infiltrate and I don't really like them in the theme of this list. Do I add it, or just keep a vanilla MotF?

Vindis. Really looking to max out my FoC here. They're decently cheap at 2500, and if the enemy gets within range they toast everything. If there is a favourable response to Dakka Dreads, I will probably have to drop the pair for a pair of those, but these are cheaper and give me Str 10 Ap 2 pie plates, which is great against everything. Doesn't emphasize Vulkan's ability, but hey, I can't be all melta/flamer!

Will post 2500 pt. hypothetical list in a bit.

I'm pretty sure Rifle Dreads are the same as DakkaDreads. MotF should be mounted on a bike so he can move and shoot the beam.

Dakka Dreads are always MVPs for me. Last game I played they knocked out 4 Raiders. They are just great for pounding units in cover and transports, and they are quite a steal for 125pts.

Also, I'm no tournament star or anything, but I'd say one thing about Vulkan. I don't think EVERYTHING you take should use a melta or flamer. Just make sure you have enough to make it game breaking. I think Predators with the lascannon sponsons and ACs are a good idea to pop transports and put pressure on MCs are always a good idea.

For the Tactical squads I've recently started keeping 10 marines in a Rhino with the MM and Melta and I feel like it's a bit more sturdy.If someone runs a vehicle up close to you, you can shoot the MM out the hatch and pop something, or you can move close to it and use the two meltas you have (the combi) and do that. I'm kind of over combat squadding each squad, as it makes them so fragile.


Anyway, take what I say as a grain of salt, peace.

If you arent maxing out on melta and flamers than you are better of with a librarian than Vulcan. At 2500pts however I guess you will have enough melta no matter how you set up your list

Eyclonus wrote:MotF should be mounted on a bike so he can move and shoot the beam.

I disagree. If you put him on a bike by himself, he's a sitting duck (a sitting duck on a bike) for any stray las cannon or missile launcher. If you give him some ablative wounds, those bikers become useless, cause they have no range. In my opinion, he should stick with scouts with sniper rifles who can contribute something to his shots.