If the Blood Ravens are a T-Sons chapter, how about loyalists from the other traitor legions?

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**Carlovonsexron**

The Doom Eagles seem to have certain quality to me that makes me think of them as potentially loyalists from the Luna Wolves; And Venerators of Osiron have a suitably Egyptian name and an open ended about everything about them to make them a potential Luna Wolves loyalist chapter as well.

Doom Eagles:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doom_Eagles
Venerators of Osiron
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Venerators_of_Osiron

What other chapters might be descended from the traitor legions?

**EmperorsChampion**

The Doom Eagles are a founding from the Ultramarines, I don't see how they could be from the luna wolves. The Venerators of Osiron have no info at all, thus it could possibly be open to anything really.

**Platuan4th**

From what I've heard, GW has retconned the Blood Ravens. The new BA book supposedly lists them as a BA successor.

**IvanTih**

GW has the answers to all and personally I think that loyalist thing wouldn't work in mos cases.

**1hadhq**

Loyalist descendants of former Legions gone traitor could exist.
Remember how many legionaires did not defect to the ruinous powers? ( +- 30% ? ).

One founding is said to consist of rather questionable geneseed sources, the "cursed founding".
As the Imperium still has the full set of geneseeds ( some locked away, obviously those of the turncoats ),
the possibility of a group of the magos biologis working on a answer to the corruption of geneseed and the
solutions to counter missing parts of the complete set of 20 implants, could allow to imagine experiments
with geneseed of those declared excommunicate and maybe even attempts at founding chapters based on it.

**Platuan4th**

IvanTih wrote:GW has the answers to all and personally I think that loyalist thing wouldn't work in mos cases.

They're not "loyalists", they're new chapters using remainders of Geneseeds from traitor legions left over from before the Heresy(that whole Genetic Testing Tithe thing they do). The Imperium supposedly used them in a founding to test the purity from a loyalty perspective to see if the betrayal of the legions went as far as being a fundamental geneseed problem.

**WGXH**

Platuan4th wrote:From what I've heard, GW has retconned the Blood Ravens. The new BA book supposedly lists them as a BA successor.

Where did you hear this? I know the BA dex aint exactly out yet, but I'd be very interested in knowing if this is true.

**Carlovonsexron**

I doubt GW did that, in all honesty - I was always under the impression that the Blood Ravens were used specifically as a chapter that GW proper wouldn't mess around with, in order to let Relic come up with its own story line and play around with it. I can see GW capitalizing off it, but not going out and retconning it right out from under Relic...

But then again it IS GW, so any amount of bad decisions is possible...

-RE: Doom Eagles- true enough that they are listed as an Ultramarine successor- though the flip side is, who would want to be defended by a chapter descended from the arch-traitors personal legion?

**cadbren**

How can Ravens have anything to do with Angels when they don't have the red rage or whatever malfunction the Angels have.
I think from the books that the Ravens are more likely to be from Sons lineage than anywhere else, the latest HH book even mentions the raven a few times and a prophesy of lost sons.

**Jon Garrett**

The Blood Ravens are not listed in the successor chapters section of the new Blood Angels codex, and a quick scan hasn't turned up any other mention of them there. The successor chapters that are mentioned are as follows;

Flesh Tearers - Second Founding
Angels Vermilion - Second Founding
Blood Drinkers - Unknown Founding
Angels Encarmine - Second Founding
Angels Sanguine - Second Founding
The Lamenters - Twenty First Founding
Knights of Blood - Unknown Founding, declared Renegade.

**Commander Endova**

I'd think a 'Loyalist' World Eaters chapter would be very cool, personally. Though, they'd probably play like BA or SW.

Also, it makes sense that the Thousand Sons would have some loyalist tendencies. The only reason that legion fell to Chaos was because the Emperor didn't have all the facts before sending the Space Wolves to destroy Prospero. Magnus turned to Tzeentch was to ensure the survval of his legion and himself.

**WGXH**

Jon Garrett wrote:The Blood Ravens are not listed in the successor chapters section of the new Blood Angels codex, and a quick scan hasn't turned up any other mention of them there. The successor chapters that are mentioned are as follows;

Flesh Tearers - Second Founding
Angels Vermilion - Second Founding
Blood Drinkers - Unknown Founding
Angels Encarmine - Second Founding
Angels Sanguine - Second Founding
The Lamenters - Twenty First Founding
Knights of Blood - Unknown Founding, declared Renegade.

Thank you very much. Mercifully, this means my existing list remains unmolested.

**cerebaton**

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_a_Thousand

Does anyone know what the source of these guys is? They certainly seem a more likely Thousand Sons successor to me. Supposedly the 'M' on their shoulder pads stands for 1000, but it could easily be M for Magnus!

**ArbitorIan**

There's also a cryptic mention of a raven of blood or a black raven symbol buried in the new A Thousand Sons novel, which could be a little hint...

Although their primarch was called Horus, there's actually nothing to suggest that the Luna Wolves were in way way egyptian themed. If we're only going by the name, then Venerators of Osiris should be Thousand Sons as well, since Thousand Sons ARE very egyptian.....

**Rube**

The only thing that springs to mind is the Ultramarines, though they obviously aren't a successor of the Alpha Legion.

**Demogerg**

The only reason that legion fell to Chaos was because the Emperor didn't have all the facts before sending the Space Wolves to destroy Prospero. Magnus turned to Tzeentch was to ensure the survval of his legion and himself.

disobeying a direct order from the God-Emperor of Mankind will generally get you labeled a Heretic.

So wolves coming to kill him wasn't the ONLY reason.

He was being influenced by the Lord of Change the entire time, and the Emperor knew it.

**starbomber109**

I for one would love to see some loyalist Death Guard, but I think they all died.

Same goes for the 1k sons, all of them are stuck as dust in their armor thanks to the Rubric...eccept the sorcerers.

I suppose one chapter that has both loyalist and traitor elements would be the Dark Angels.

**Shas'O Dorian**

On the Thousand sons:
"Magnus at first used his powers to warn the Emperor about the treachery. The primarch knew that by doing so, he would break his promise to his father, but he was willing to suffer the consequences. Angered by his son’s disobedience and unable to believe that his favoured son would betray him, the Emperor ordered Leman Russ of the Space Wolves to bring Magnus back to Terra for questioning. (However, in the Horus Heresy novels Graham McNeill describes it as if Horus tricked Russ to rather battle the Thousand Sons than bringing them back to Terra to answer for their actions as the Emperor had ordered him to) "

Right or not That's how I choose to see it. Magnus was not traitor by choice, he was willing to answer for what he did but Horus had other plans.

**cadbren**

The book mentions that Magnus made a mistake when attempting to undo the genetic instability of the Thousand Sons. Whether that mistake was his to bear alone or affected his marines too is debatable, it might make it possible for marines not on Prospero at the time to have escaped the fate of the rest of the Legion.
The Legion had a fleet and some marines were surely present on some of those ships, they may have survived the Wolves attack.

**reds8n**

Commander Endova wrote:I'd think a 'Loyalist' World Eaters chapter would be very cool, personally. Though, they'd probably play like BA or SW.

Minotaur Chapter.

I think the idea GW was hinting at was that all/most of the Cursed 21st founding were based upon the traitor legions geneseed.

**TaintedMess**

starbomber109 wrote:I for one would love to see some loyalist Death Guard, but I think they all died.

I think about 60 or 70 Death guard survived on the eisenstein and made it to luna what happens to them after that I'm not sure

**I grappled the shoggoth**

I think the ultramarines are a loyalist successor to the emperors children.

**n3koj1n**

Rube wrote:The only thing that springs to mind is the Ultramarines, though they obviously aren't a successor of the Alpha Legion.

That's what they want you to think...*conspiratorial laughter*

**brummyd**

whats all this , ultramarines a successor chapter?

they have their own

primarch!

**Cheese Elemental**

Platuan4th wrote:From what I've heard, GW has retconned the Blood Ravens. The new BA book supposedly lists them as a BA successor.

Having read and reviewed the codex, I can safely say that only the similarity in names is noted.

**Eyclonus**

Eisenstein seems to hint that the geneseed of Nathaniel Garro and Iacton Qruze was used in the creation of the Grey Knights. Captain Garro especially seems like a good candidate as he single handedly laid the smack down on a daemon prince on the moon.

The obvious counter is that said daemon prince was once a member of his personal guard.

Also older versions of the Eisenstein story mention bands of loyalists from practically every traitor legion working together to escape and send word of the HH.

**Ed_Bodger**

Nothing to do with the topic but Demogerg has the best signature ever.

On topic I think it is entirely plausible that there are loyalist successors from other Chapters I am using one now for some fiction I am writing. I don't see anything wron with it if 25% of a legion didn't turn to Chaos that is two and a half chapters at least.

**Eyclonus**

Well there was one Emperor's Children captain who didn't turn and went the aid of another who was fighting vast odds... unfortunately for him that other was named Lucius who later gained the title "the eternal". Said marine was so shocked that he'd butchered so many other loyalist emperor's children to save the outnumbered traitor that Lucius was able to kill him quite swiftly and painfully.

**Corennus**

There must be some marines who survived the heresy and were loyal from the traitor legions, but the vast majority died in the Virus Bombing and Dropsite Massacre.

I think most marines were rounded up after the heresy and tried. Don't think many were found innocent

**Sergeant Horse**

Platuan4th wrote:From what I've heard, GW has retconned the Blood Ravens. The new BA book supposedly lists them as a BA successor.

the BA book says they are not actually