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Right i'm playing in a campign with empire.
my oponents' armies are:
Dwarves (very experianced player of them)
Bretonians (player is a pushover)
Wood Elves (player is new to this army)
WoC (player is average. Likes tooled up characthers)
Deamons (experianced player, very beardy)
Dark Elves (good player, never played him before, don't know his style)
Orcs & Goblins (Haven't played him, army swings more towards goblins with lots of fanatics)

My 1000pt list follows:

Captain *
full plate armour
shield
the white cloak
sword of battle
barded warhorse

Spearmen *
20 man
full command
shields
10 archers detachment

Inner circle knights *
5man
preceptor
musician

spearmen
10man
full command
shields

2nd captain
full plate armour
battle standerd bearer
the Imperial banner

Knights
8 man
full command

total 985

btw my model collection of empire is limited

any unit with a * next to it cannot be changed

Any ideas?


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Or advice against my opponents armies?

I think the weakest choice there is the 10 man spears with full command. Spears aren't super-optimal, but you can always choose to use hand weapon and shield for more survivability.

The issue with full command in a 10 man block is that you're pouring more points into a light unit anyhow. And 100 bonus VPs for capturing a standard is there for the taking from anyone.

8 is also an odd number for a knights unit. 5 core knights with no upgrades (or only musician) can be a nice speedy and moderately hitty cheap choice.

When you say * cannot be changed, does that include equipment selections? Because I don't much rate the sword of battle. I'd rather have a lance, than one extra strength 4 attack

Last comment- great cannons are something that you can take to deal with a lot of things that aren't possible to tackle with the rest of the army. Think about it as an option. I know they're prone to misfiring at terrible times, but there's a handy psychological factor that comes with their presence on the battlefield.

RZ

I agree on the 10 man spearmen unit. Easy points for your opponent. How easily can you expand your army? Swordsmen can be a good boost for your rank and file units. Maybe get a couple more knights and make two seperate units. Also, you have no magic. While you may not need it for offensive capabilities you will need it for defense with a Dark Elf and Demon player in your campaign.

Deamons are all khorne.
In the campign its been agreed that there will be no magic till 1500pts.
Ones marked with * can't have anything changed. Except units which can have guys added.
I can not get more models easily. What i have is mostly 2nd hand. Thats why there is a 8man knights unit.

Cannons and Swordsmen should be a good friend of yours.

Consider detachments as well. You could break up the unit of 10 Spearment into two 5-man detcahments. Granted the Spears are wasted, but you could be using Hand Weapons and Shields instead. Detachments are what make the Empire work (well for an infantry focused list anyways).

I have a cannon
also both helblaster and helstorm

It almost sacrilege to not take a cannon in an empire army.

Detachments are also your friend in that you can still take a good amount of models, but it gives you more maneuverability, as well as a counter charge and you dont spend points on a second command group.

If you want to use spear men and thats all you have, thats fine, they are not horrible, but at least boost up their numbers a bit. You already have regular knights, baddabing theres your 2 core choices.

Seriously though, at least one cannon. Leave the hellblaster/helstrom at home though.

I use proxies to make a 30 man unit 6 wide out side of this campaign so far. with 2 detachments: 10 archers and 14 free company

Use the Helblaster, the other one is garbage. 10 skirmishing archers as a detachment works well as they get to stand and shoot when their parent unit gets charged and since they are in skirmish formation they take up less room than rank and file handgunners.

I think i'm going to expand/change what i can to make this have a bit of a calvery preferance. Any tips on caverly?

Standard Core choice knights aren't bad at 23pts each, but if you already have your core covered then definately make them Knights of the Inner Circle. That S4 with a S6 lance charge is really good. It allows you to dominate flanks which supports your rank and file in a huge way. Even with full command a unit of 5 is very affordable.

But in my experiance (and bad luck) gets overrun when it doesnt cause enough casulties to win the combat. Any tips to stop that.

Knights should never charge in all alone. Yes they are strong but they are to few in number to last in an extended battle. Knights should be used in support of something, such as a block of swordsmen, flags, or even a steam tank, and should be charging from the side. They should be used as the hammer coming down on the unit thats stuck facing the anvil unit.

Expecting a unit of knights to wipe out every unit it faces head on is just asking for them to die or run off the table.

What combatmedic said. Use your knights to flank what your rank and file guys hit. Also, Empire knights are generally strong enough they can take down other armies flanking units as well. If by chance there is something on the sides they can't take then hit it with a cannonball or two.

I use multiple units a 5 knights with only a musician. I jokingly call them my fast cav and use them like a unit of fast cav.

As an Empire player myself, I don't rate swordsmen to highly. Not much difference between WS 3 and 4, and sure the I4 is useful, but against elves your always hitting last, and against orc/ogres you've got that T4 to worry about. Far better to take halbediers or big blocks of cheap spearmen. A unit of 25 without command is about 130 pts. Never used to be a fan of the rocket battery until the other day when I had a direct hit on a 20 strong unit of bloodletters!

skyth wrote:I use multiple units a 5 knights with only a musician. I jokingly call them my fast cav and use them like a unit of fast cav.

Brave sir Robin?

Yep

But they take a lot of charges and play the angles (Less likely to get wiped out)...And are nasty as a flank charger.

Stormtrooper X wrote:Use the Helblaster, the other one is garbage. 10 skirmishing archers as a detachment works well as they get to stand and shoot when their parent unit gets charged and since they are in skirmish formation they take up less room than rank and file handgunners.

I'd like to point out, Archers are also great for screening a parent unit of infantry (swordsmen for me) and keeping their ranks intact from shooting and magic missiles. Because they're skirmishers, they have that extra -1 when being shot at.

I would introduce some artillery to your list. It's an Empire strength afterall.

Trying to out-melee Chaos Warriors, Daemons, or Dwarves is just going to leave you bruised.

Cheers for the advice.
My new list has a lvl2 wizard with the iritating van-horstmans speculum and a helblaster volley gun.

VikingScott wrote:Cheers for the advice.
My new list has a lvl2 wizard with the iritating van-horstmans speculum and a helblaster volley gun.

Cheers!

I love VHS, although my local gaming group has grown very wary of it, and now I have to keep mixing up who has it...

watching a level 1 battle wizard beat an Exalted Hero of chaos to death is hilarious.

lvl 1 wizard beat a tyrant with gut maw. The look on my oppenents face! Priceless.
But the others now know I am taking that and a volley gun which they are also wary of due my luck of it missfiring first time i fire it in a game then rolling a 6...
30 S5 armour peircing shots does deal a lot of death.
So they are trying to get my out of it by making me lose all my teritories.


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I've been offered 8 very well painted knights, based and all... for £20.
Is that worth it?
I'm a bit skeptical about it as its a bit pricey

I'm picturing Gandalf beating down the Balrog.

ZF-

My next battle is very important.
1000pts against dwarfs
any tips?
Btw i hate his thunderers.


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If you read my original post hes very experianced with him and on the map he has to play me before he can conquer netral teritory ( as i surrond his teritorys hoping to take out my closest therat early)
I need this advice before saturday as thats when my game is.

Dwarves are a tough nut to crack, I almost always end up with a draw or just reach a Minor Win/Loss.

They've got some of the same strengths as Empire in terms of warmachines and shooting troops but ours are generally cheaper.

A Steamtank is no good as it will get crippled easily by the Dwarves.
Crossbowmen are good for a ranged duel with his crossbows or handgunners, simply because yours cost less.
Cannons are essential for counter battery fire and when done with that can be great at ploughing furrows through Dwarven regiments.
Mortars and their S3 are not a lot of good though getting a Helstorm pieplate on one of his blocks is pure gold!
Outriders and Pistoliers I generally consider as too fragile vs Dwarves.

And there's the dwarven blocks of troops of course, hard as nails.

Don't try to out-elite his troops, your Greatswords will die almost just as easily as other troops to his shooting. Flagellants my die like flies to shooting but can be a worthy missile magnet that doesn't panic from his shooting and can really kills some dwarves in the first round of CC.

Knight units are great vs Dwarves. their high AS will protect them from a lot of hurt and you can use them to charge into his lines of shooters. Keep them cheap, no command or maybe a musician. Don't charge his main blocks from the front with them!! Always charge the sides.

Cheap blocks of troops are also good, they can take a lot of shooting and pin dwarven units in place so you can charge the surviving knights into the flanks. Combat detachments aren't really worth it vs Dwarves IMO (X-bows are good to leave behind and shoot though), that's what the knights are for.

Yuor characters should avoid Dwarven characters in combat, though the VHS trick might work. Wizards are an all or nothing affair in order to get past those base 4 DD of the Dwarves. I'd leave all of them at home.

A Captain on a Pegasus can be a great sacrificial warmachine hunter. Hide him at the start of battle. Fly him out to his most dangerous warmachine in turn one, and make sure you end up within 8" in case the Pegasus gets killed by shooting (likely). Give the Captain the Bronze Shield, now he can discount the first hit against him so you can basically bounce of a cannonball or Bolt thrower bolt of his shield once.
It would be great if there are more warmachines or missile troops nearby. Don't be afraid of charging him in there. He most likely will die in the end but he will surely take a good amount with him and every turn he locks those Dwarves in CC is a turn in which they can't shoot at you!

Good luck!

Nice advice.
But I am playing in a campaighn where once the points cap steps up and you increase your list it cannot be changed.
Keep that in mind. I have 6 other armies to fight also and my money and collection is limeted.

Hmmm. Didn't realise that.

Ok, here's what I would do when using the list in your very first post.

Main problem would still be his missile troops so I would use both units of Knights and the Captain on horse (solo!!) to go get them.

Meanwhile I'd march up the bigger infantry unit with the other unit functioning like a kind of detachement besides it while the archers walk in a line before them to act as a missile shield.

Just march forward. If he didn't deploy back your cavalry can charge on turn 2 to take out/occupy his shooters/warmachines.

March your infantry into the face of one of his infantry units, don't go for a long distance charge he might flee and leave you stranded for a flank charge by another unit. Make sure your (surviving) archers have moved out of the way by now.

Get real close, 1" is no problem. You can even give him the chance to charge you! In fact this would be better. Why? Because you''ll hold (BSB should help, though if you could change to the Banner of Sigismund this would help even more!) and you'll be able to use both of your ranks of Spears. Except enemy challenges only with your champ, the BSB cannot be risked. Now he'll be stuck and in your turn you can charge his unit in the flank with your other Spear unit.

Hopefully some knights may also be around to play (you'll need at least 3 turns of marching to get into his face).

Some good advice but again my list has changed quite a bit from the one at the top.
And he has the habit of waiting for me on his side of the board.
I do know that in army there will be:
at least 1 unit of thunders 15+
longbeards 10+
warriors 20+
runesmith

Just an update.
I managed a draw against the dwarfs