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Wow, I see that being abused to feth, but this makes me see them in a bit better light. I was thinking they had to get super close (everyone within 5") to get their shots off, but if only a few people have to be, it makes them much better.

Even so, I still think the Devilfish needs to be buffed/they get some kind of special mobility from a formation for them to be truly viable. Nonetheless, it's a handy boost for a unit that I think will still be fairly decent regardless of the above.

I wouldn't be surprised if the devilfish saw a price drop - maybe to 55-60pts?

Honestly the main thing the Devilfish needs is the Fast Vehicle unit type. It's two guns would actually be worth something then! Drop it to 60-70 points with the added Fast type and you then have a much more competitive transport.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Wow, I see that being abused to feth, but this makes me see them in a bit better light. I was thinking they had to get super close (everyone within 5") to get their shots off, but if only a few people have to be, it makes them much better.

Not really abused, it's just how it works. To be clear, the entire unit you're targetting doesn't have to be within 5 inches of your guys is what we're saying. The entire breacher unit DOES have to be within 5" of at least one model to fire. It would be like firing a unit of 5 marines - 4 are within 12", 1 is 14" away - you fire 9 shots, because one guy doesn't get the bonus for rapid fire because he's out.

In this case, say I disembark 5 breachers, I can get 3 within 5" and the last 2 are 6-8" away (maybe I'm trying to tail back to an objective). I fire 6 Str 6 Ap 3 shots (3 guys, 2 shots each) and 4 str 5 ap 5 shots (2 guys, 2 shots each).

It would literally work the same way Rapid Fire does - its on a model by model basis. However since its the same gun, they all fire simo even though different strength profiles so no fear of shooting your fellow breachers out of range.

Since this is a completely new rule and the only similar rule we have to compare it to is Rapid Fire, its going to have a loophole since its not stating it behaves like Rapid Fire and the BRB doesnt mention such a gun at all. You are going to make a lot of enemies if you try to have 1 model in 5" and fire a whole squad at S6 AP3

High resolution pics of the Ghostkeel

http://trade.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ENGWD089_OC-copy.jpg

http://trade.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/TAU_XV95-Ghostkeel-Battlesuit_STE.jpg

Kahnawake

 Kahnawake wrote:
High resolution pics of the Ghostkeel

http://trade.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ENGWD089_OC-copy.jpg

http://trade.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/TAU_XV95-Ghostkeel-Battlesuit_STE.jpg

Kahnawake

Thanks, but it's already up on GW's website.

vitae_drinker wrote:
Unless Devilfish (or Breachers themselves) get Deep Strike, or they can get a Devilfish for free or cheap, then they are a sub par unit.

Also, don't forget, the new Tau force detachment will probably require 1+ Breachers Team, so be prepared to buy a new box to build them, regardless if you like them or not. Probably 2+ Strike Teams, 1+ Breachers, 1+ Pathfinders, a Cadre Fireblade or Ethereal (probably one of each similar to the battle demi-company to get free transports like for the Marines), and maybe 1+ Piranhas. Oh, and 1+ gun drone squadron. Suits and tanks will be formations.

That's my guess.

That's probably a good guess and a gakky move on the part of GW. I've got three units of painted firewarriors but only 3 carbines in the bunch to signify my Shas'ui models and I'm not buying/building/painting more.

All my FWs have cabrines. I do a lot of city type maps (I always loved cityfight, and have a lot of city terrain), and my style of hard-hitting short ranged firepower fits them perfectly.

From the look of them, I suspect most folks wouldn't have an issue with just counting them as breachers. If they require breachers and pirahnas for the inevitable super voltron formation as I suspect, I'll be screwed.

I'd expect the Core formation for the codex to have at least one mandatory heavy-hitter, Eldar had their Support Platforms, Space Marines had Devastators/Centurion Devastators, ditto Dark Angels. I guess Necrons had optional Monoliths (lol). By those examples I'd expect either Broadsides or Hammerheads to be part of the Core formation, so that will help if that is the case.

Caederes wrote:
I'd expect the Core formation for the codex to have at least one mandatory heavy-hitter, Eldar had their Support Platforms, Space Marines had Devastators/Centurion Devastators, ditto Dark Angels. I guess Necrons had optional Monoliths (lol). By those examples I'd expect either Broadsides or Hammerheads to be part of the Core formation, so that will help if that is the case.

While I do have plenty of broadsides and agree there will be an option in there for them, I doubt it'll help. If you're missing one lion, you can't form super voltron formation. It doesn't matter if you've doubled up on the blue arm if the yellow leg is missing.

It's possible broadsides would be part of their formation, but I'm actually hesitant to agree. I suspect suits are going to be seperare formations you can take. Basically they'll be the 1+ Auxiliary that you take in the double formation.

I'm betting sniper drone teams, instead, will be the heavy requirement.

vitae_drinker wrote:
It's possible broadsides would be part of their formation, but I'm actually hesitant to agree. I suspect suits are going to be seperare formations you can take. Basically they'll be the 1+ Auxiliary that you take in the double formation.

I'm betting sniper drone teams, instead, will be the heavy requirement.

It'll probably be the core black lion formation of firewarriors and breachers with one low selling unit slapped on like the pirahna and broadsides will be an add on blue lion formation where as crisis suits will be a red lion add on and so on. I'm just curious if they'll continue the eldar/space marine/dark angel trend of broken and/or free rules given by the formations as long as you spend money instead of points... or if the Tau will be an ork level codex instead.

I would be very surprised if Sniper Drone Teams were the "heavy" requirement, seeing as how they're Finecast and not plastic.

Broadsides are a good bet, but so are basically anything. And heck they could make it so that Core formation has no Heavy Support option in it.

The Eldar Windrider Host Core Formation was HQ, Troops, and Fast Attack.

I could easily see a Fire Warrior oriented Core Formation that would be:
1x Cadre Fireblade
3-5 Fire Warrior Teams; any mix of Strike or Breachers
1x Pathfinder Team
1x Piranha Squadron

Formation bonus of free Drones on the Shas'ui in squads or free Seeker Missiles on the Piranha Squadron and Overwatching(not Support Firing) at their normal BS or something like that.

I suspect that we'll see an Auxiliary choice that is either a Broadside Team or a Riptide or possibly even a Stormsurge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
It's possible broadsides would be part of their formation, but I'm actually hesitant to agree. I suspect suits are going to be seperare formations you can take. Basically they'll be the 1+ Auxiliary that you take in the double formation.

I'm betting sniper drone teams, instead, will be the heavy requirement.

It'll probably be the core black lion formation of firewarriors and breachers with one low selling unit slapped on like the pirahna and broadsides will be an add on blue lion formation where as crisis suits will be a red lion add on and so on. I'm just curious if they'll continue the eldar/space marine/dark angel trend of broken and/or free rules given by the formations as long as you spend money instead of points... or if the Tau will be an ork level codex instead.

What about the Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, or Breacher Team makes you think that Tau will be "an Ork level codex"(which BTW is a silly statement to make, as before the Necron and Eldar books hit Orks were shaping up pretty well)?

I bet the fsc will be a support formation. I didn't think about the sniper drones being finecast. Hmm. But I'll still stick with the sniper requirement as my guess.

I would have said that the Firebase Support Cadre would be a formation, but out of all the bundles that they have brought onto the webstore for the Tau?

It is one of three(Ghostkeel Wing, Stormsurge Mobile Assault Force, and Firebase Support Cadre) bundles that do not mention something similar to the following:

This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle will give you everything you need in order to field the Heavy Retribution Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Optimised Stealth Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

 Kanluwen wrote:
(which BTW is a silly statement to make, as before the Necron and Eldar books hit Orks were shaping up pretty well)?

That right there is a silly statement. It doesn't matter what it was "shaping up" to be but rather what it became relative to the releases before and after... you know.. the armies that it would face. Good intentions mean squat on the tabletop when you're facing down an army with a dozen free rules they didn't pay any points for and/or a dozen models that they didn't pay any points for. The Tau codex will be measured against the broken Eldar one, the trend setting Necrons, and the recent buy one get one free themed duo of Astartes releases.

 warboss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
(which BTW is a silly statement to make, as before the Necron and Eldar books hit Orks were shaping up pretty well)?

That right there is a silly statement. It doesn't matter what it was "shaping up" to be but rather what it became relative to the releases before and after... you know.. the armies that it would face. Good intentions mean squat on the tabletop when you're facing down an army with a dozen free rules they didn't pay any points for and/or a dozen models that they didn't pay any points for. The Tau codex will be measured against the broken Eldar one, the trend setting Necrons, and the recent buy one get one free duo of Astartes releases.

And out of those four books, the only one which is demonstrably broken is the Eldar one.

If you really wanted to make a point about it being a book that "lags behind", you could have just inserted any book that was published pre-Necrons. But no. You picked Orks, a book which was actually pretty good in terms of balancing.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I would have said that the Firebase Support Cadre would be a formation, but out of all the bundles that they have brought onto the webstore for the Tau?

It is one of three(Ghostkeel Wing, Stormsurge Mobile Assault Force, and Firebase Support Cadre) bundles that do not mention something similar to the following:

This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle will give you everything you need in order to field the Heavy Retribution Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Optimised Stealth Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

I'm guessing it's because they still sell the data-slate with its rules. Gotta get those dollars!

 Kanluwen wrote:

And out of those four books, the only one which is demonstrably broken is the Eldar one.

If you really wanted to make a point about it being a book that "lags behind", you could have just inserted any book that was published pre-Necrons. But no. You picked Orks, a book which was actually pretty good in terms of balancing.

It might have been fine internally but that only matters if orks only ever face orks. As for only the eldar being broken, you and I have vastly different views on what constitutes being broken. I, for instance, think being able to take 2300pts in a 2000pt game ON TOP OF a mess of special rules you didn't previously have is broken. YMMV. That, however, is the new standard along with Eldar D-weaponry and wraithknights.

Caederes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I would have said that the Firebase Support Cadre would be a formation, but out of all the bundles that they have brought onto the webstore for the Tau?

It is one of three(Ghostkeel Wing, Stormsurge Mobile Assault Force, and Firebase Support Cadre) bundles that do not mention something similar to the following:

This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle will give you everything you need in order to field the Heavy Retribution Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

This bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Optimised Stealth Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

I'm guessing it's because they still sell the data-slate with its rules. Gotta get those dollars!

Then it would have said, "as found in the Dataslate".

Picture leak

I dont know which have been seen already so only posting a few of the new ones (Tau fortification)







Source: http://www.gamestrust.de/tabletop/news,warhammer-40-000-sternenreich-tau-bilder-wd-90-operation-ghostkeel-tidewall-rampart,id46463.html and http://www.gamestrust.de/tabletop/produkt,bilder,warhammer-40-000-sternenreich-tau,id1479.html

Maybe. I doubt they would get rid of the FSC as it is the first ever formation outside of Apocalypse.

Those terrain pictures....wow. Also, it definitely looks like all of it is floating!

"Welcome to the Tau pool party"

This terrain piece looks so easy to scratch build... At this price I doubt it will be selling well

Kahnawake

On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

Caederes wrote:
Maybe. I doubt they would get rid of the FSC as it is the first ever formation outside of Apocalypse.

You'd think that the Dark Angels would have gotten the Librarius Conclave, since they actually had the Formation first.

They didn't, and honestly? The FSC probably is going to be gone.

Sad Panda mentioned additional "Decurions in campaign books" a few days ago in this thread when the future of *edit* Farside Enclave *edit* was discussed.