[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**judgedoug**

Hey, just in case someone really liked the old Twilight Kin hybrid plastic/metal models, saw this on sale today - http://frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=82136#.VS-z7vnF98E

**Daedleh**

Beta 2.3 lists are up:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/edit#gid=549196905

Abyssal Dwarfs - Ironcaster Points increased by to 105 (From 85)
Abyssal Dwarfs - Slave Orcs can now be taken in hordes (Have fun David)
Abyssal Dwarfs - Grotesque Champion +1 Nerve
All - Reduced attatcks on all ranged infantry to 8/10/20 from 10/12/25
All - Banechant Cost rebalanced to: BC(1) = 10 pts, BC(2) = 15 pts, BC(3) = 20 pts
All - Base Sizes & heights listed
All - Legions nerve reduced by 2
Dwarfs - Sharpshooters extreme range to 24"
Elves - Dropped Ra on most units to Ra4, also removed piercing, seaguard remain at Ra5+
Elves - Seaguard Points reduced slightly
Elves - Bolt Thrower up to 80 (From 70)
Elves - Forest Warden +1 Nerve
Goblins - Biggit Ra reduced to 4+ (From 5+)
Goblins - Fleabags Riders and Sniffs speed increased to 10 (from 9)
Goblins - Troll Bruisher +1 Nerve
Kingdoms of Men - Beast of War Ballista amended (Ra5+) and increased points
Magic Items - Blade of Slashing reduced to 5 points (from 10)
Magic Items - Mace of Crushing has been rewritten
Magic Items - Orcsbains amulet of thrones points increased to 35 (from 25)
Magic Items - Brew of Keen-eyeness increased to 50 (from 35)
Nature - Forest Warden +1 Nerve
Ogres - Heavy Crossbows reverted back to regular ranged attacks
Ogres - Captain gets Reload with Heavy Crossbow
Ogres - Added Ballista upgrade for Mammoth
Ogres - Red Goblin Scouts speed increased to 10 (from 9)
Ogres - Chariots points drop from 195 to 170 for a regiment
Ogres - Hero chariot upgrades dropped to 15 points
Ogres - Captain +1 Nerve
Ogres - Captain +1 Nerve
Special Rules - Fly now hindered if they land in difficult terrain.
Undead - Zombie no longer Irregular
Undead - Undead Trolls renamed to Zombie Trolls - Brains....
Undead - Vampire on Dragon points increased by 10 to 330 (From 320)
Undead - Balefire points increased to 100 (From 95)
Undead - Lykanis +1 Nerve

**Bolognesus**

on the Ogre army list, it says:Heavy Crossbows: This unit's ranged attacks have a range of 36" and an extreme range of 24"

Okay, I haven't played for a while, but what's going on here? I don't think there is such a thing as extreme range anywhere in the rules document (and it being searchable made it quite easy to confirm that) and even if you want to, for example, create a -1 to hit penalty at >24" is this really the way to phrase that? (or am I just missing something blindingly obvious?)

**NTRabbit**

Doesn't really matter in the end, since the post above yours says they lost their heavy crossbows and reverted back to regular ranged attack crossbows.

Or maybe I'm misreading something as well

**.Mikes.**

Reading on some facebook posts it appears as if extreme range is the range after which a -1 is applied to dice rolls to hit. I belive it was set at 28" unless states otherwise (war engines had a longer extreme range).

**Azazelx**

The whole rules revision aspect is being held in the worst way. Alessio working one day a week, the Beta being months late, and now the RC under the gun with weekly changes for the community to playtest, and then having only a (relatively) small amount of feedback in hand to base their changes off.

At least the RC seem to have a lot more influence now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
*"worst" being a relative term. I mean, external and open playtesting is obviously a lot better than none (you know what I mean) and Ronnie has been receptive to (overwhelming) feedback from the playerbase that reflected what the RC had been saying all along. But because of severe early delays, the playtest-feedback-adjustment timeframe is now horribly rushed for what is supposed to be one of Mantic's flagship games so it can be out in time for GW to shed its WHFB playerbase.

**Baragash**

It's less about GW and more about not having significant product handling for one project bleed into another and lead to organisational disaster. They did extend the deadline for the public beta compared to it's original plan.

"Extreme range" is a -1 to hit penalty over 18". It's deliberately not called "long range" to avoid confusion with the convention of "long range" being half a weapon's range.

**Bolognesus**

Okay, thanks all! Is there an updated rules document now or is it still just the original beta document with this only on Facebook and in the army lists spreadsheet?

**Daedleh**

This is the latest document from the 15th April: http://1drv.ms/1yvlGbQ

Differences to that document were listed on the special rules tab of our spreadsheet, though admittedly we should have perhaps advertised that a bit better.

We've submitted our final core rules changes today for Alessio to integrate. The core rules will then be locked in, with just army list changes from then on (barring typos of course). Hopefully we'll get an updated doc today or tomorrow.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn mantic for the beta being so late - I'm not sure that they made claims on timescales (I might be wrong though). It was the RC early on seeing the initial rate of development and thinking we'd have the beta out in time for the open day... then for Christmas... then for early in the year...

If the RC had the power then that they have now then yes, the beta would have been out by the open day and we'd have had nearly 6 months of testing.

We are conducting extensive testing and discussions behind the scenes. I got a warning from my boss last week because I was constantly on my phone... I've done nearly nothing in my spare time except make scenery for the rulebook photography or discuss KoW for the past 2 weeks. We're not just basing our changes on the feedback we get from the public :-)

**Bolognesus**

Ah thanks, I had overlooked that.

**Azazelx**

You guys better get your names in the book. You deserve that at the very least.

**Daedleh**

NTRabbit wrote:
Doesn't really matter in the end, since the post above yours says they lost their heavy crossbows and reverted back to regular ranged attack crossbows.

Or maybe I'm misreading something as well

They're no longer (n) with blast d3 - they use their normal amount of attacks with no blast. Heavy Crossbows are a normal ranged weapon with a range of 36" and extreme range of 24".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azazelx wrote:
You guys better get your names in the book. You deserve that at the very least.

Before Matt Gilbert saved the day I didn't even want my name in the book...

**Nostromodamus**

Has Mantic said when we can expect to receive the existing KoW stuff we may have bought through the KS?

**Daedleh**

I don't know about that. The initial plan was to send out a first wave of existing models, but given the time until launch I suspect it may just be a combined first wave.

KoW Beta 2.4 army lists released:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/edit#gid=2111976336

General - Extreme Range Removed
General - Cavalry Hordes and Large Infantry Legions Pts % Slightly Increased
General - Giants no longer suffer the penalty for hindered charges.
Magic Items - Blasting Arrow - Removed
Magic Items - Brew of Keen-eyeness - Decreased points to 45 (from 50)
Magic Items - Brew of Sharpness - Increased points to 45 (from 40)
Magic Items - Darklords Onyx ring - Reduced points to 20 (from 40)
Magic Items - Heartseeking Chant - Now works with spells.
Magic Items - Kaba's Holy Hand - No longer requires Good units to take, now always hits on a 4+ regardless of modifiers.
Magic Items - Kevinar's Flying Hammer - Changed to 12" Range, now always hits on a 4+
Magic Items - Myrddin’s Amulet of the Fire-heart - No longer requires lightning bolt
Magic Items - Myrddin’s Dwarven Rune Stones - Removed
Magic Items - Piercing Arrow - Operates like Mace of crushing for ranged attackks
Magic Items - Quicksilver Blade renamed to Quicksilver Rapier
Magic Items - Scarletmaw’s Fenulian Amulet - Now Increases Lightning bolt by 2.
Mhorgoth - Can only grant regeneration to non hero units
Abyssal Dwarfs - Abyssal Grotesques - 50x50mm bases.
Abyssal Dwarfs - Angkor Mortar - Increased points to 120 (from 110)
Abyssal Dwarfs - Brakki Barka - Increased Nerve by 1
Abyssal Dwarfs - Grog Mortar - Increased points to 100 (from 85)
Abyssal Dwarfs - Rocket Launcher - Increased points to 85
Abyssals - Flamebearers - Nerve increased by 1
Abyssals - Iffrit - Can no longer take Surge
Basileans - Elohi - Increased Nerve by 1 to 14/17 from (13/16), Points also increased slightly
Basilean - Crossbows - Reduced Points slightl
Dwarf - Rangers - Now uses the correct point % for ranged troops
Dwarfs - Bulwarkers - Increased Points slightly
Dwarfs - Cannon - Increased points to 110 (from 100
Dwarfs - Ironclad - Reduced Points slightly
Dwarfs - Ironguard - Increased Points slightly
Dwarfs - Ironwatch Crossbows - Reduced Points slightly
Dwarfs - Ironwatch Rifles - Reduced Points slightly
Dwarfs - Sharpshooters - No longer suffer from extreme range.
Elves - Scouts - Now have Melee 4 (from 5), reduced points by 5
Elves - Silverbreeze can no longer be taken as regiments, Troops points increased slightly.
Elves - War chariots - Decreased Speed to 8, Increased attacks, removed Nimble
Goblins - Fleabag Chariots - Increased attacks to 8/16, No longer have Nimbl
Goblins - Magwa and Jo'os - Slightly beefed up, increased number of attacks by 1, increased lightning bolt by 1 and increased nerve by 1, points increased by 10
Kingdoms of Men - Charioteers - Increased Speed to 8 (From 7), No longer have Nimble, Now have TC(2), Increased attacks to 8/16
Kingdoms of Men - Crossbows - Reduced Points slightl
Kingdoms of Me - Arquebuisiers - Reduced Points slightl
Nature - Air Elementals - No longer have Crushing Strength, Increased points by 5
Nature - Beast of Nature - Fly cost increased to 50 (from 40)
Nature - Centaur Chief - Bow Option reduced to 10 points (from 15)
Nature - Greater Elemental - Air option now only has CS(1), Water Elemental costs an extra 30
Nature - Pegasus - Increased points by 5
Natur - Winged Unicorn - No longer has Surge
Ogres - Heavy Crossbows - No longer suffer from extreme rang
Ogres - Red Goblins attacks reduced to match other ranged units.
Ogres - Warrior Legion - Increased Nerve by 1
Orcs - Chariots - Reduced upper nerve limit by 1, reduced points slightly
Orcs - Fight Wagons - Reduced upper nerve limit by 1, reduced points slightly

We won't be making another update next weekend (3rd May), the next one will be on the 10th. That will likely be the last public beta update before final submissions.

**kodos**

some pics of the new abyssal units from brueckenkopf-online
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=141126

and a Dragon for Dungeon Saga

**AlexHolker**

Some of the heads for the Succubi look good, some of them look bad. Hopefully there are enough of the good ones that the bad ones don't matter. It would also be nice if those seated succubi were the "pets" on the Succubi sprue, but we'll see.

**Da Boss**

Abyssals came out better than I expected. They remind me of the wee demons from the Diablo games, in a good sort of nostalgic way, although they do look kinda stupid.

The succubi are surprisingly good!

The dragon looks goofy. I'm sad. I was hoping it wouldn't be a goofy dragon, but alas, it seems we are thwarted again.

**Nostromodamus**

Happy with everything there! Awesome!

**Hulksmash**

They look meh but for less than a dollar each it's cheap enough I'll get some.

**Schmapdi**

They're nice enough sculpts - but too cartoonish to appear even slightly threatening. Which is a bit of a problem for demons imo.

**overtyrant**

Ha! I really didn't like them before.... I do now though! Not sure why demons need clothes though and I don't think I would paint them red either. Now if only the Molochs wouldn't suffer from short leg syndrome I might get these!

**adamsouza**

Let these ship SOON. I backed for an Abyssal Mega Army for KOW, but since started a Chaos Daemons army for 40K and I soooooooooooo want these for my Daemonettes.

**ulgurstasta**

I have never agreed with the design choices when it comes to the Abyssals, but these came out better then I expected.

**Barzam**

The males are okay, but now I'm sort of wishing I'd thrown down for some of the Succubi, too.

**highlord tamburlaine**

I don't like the pupils on the abyssals. Demons should have glowy eyes and look all menacing and stuff.

The ladies do look a lot better than the male versions though.

I'm looking forward to seeing what their big huge giant boss abyssal guy will look like, and if he ends up being all metal still or not.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Barzam wrote:
The males are okay, but now I'm sort of wishing I'd thrown down for some of the Succubi, too.

Aren't these the KOW2 HIPS minis? I thought we still had approximately two more waves of pledge manager availability.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

they might well be prints rather than the final styrene

**Baragash**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
they might well be prints rather than the final styrene

They are masters yes.

**lord_blackfang**

I like the Abyssals. I backed for two starter armies for them (cause I would prefer to get another 10 gargoyles in place of the metal characters).

**RoninXiC**

Didnt back the last KS project because I, at that time, didnt like the first real pictures of the abyssal.

Now Im sad that I didnt spend 200$ :(