Many topics, a thread continued.

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**Hellfury**

Dipping technique is what you do when you dip an entire model into what is basically an ink bath. Remove the model and shake off the excess. it leaves a shading in the recesses with little to no work involved. This works effectivley when used for more organic models such as tyranids.

Glazing is the careful application of a wash (with varying colors) to the model. There is a fine line between glazing, adding shading filters, or just out and out wash baths.

Its an old idea with a new name basically.

**Drake_Marcus**

Well I wish I had stumbled on this thread earlier but alas this is the first time I've read it. Although I don't have to, I'd like to defend my decision to close the thread in question since Hellfury has called my decision making in question.

First of all- the thread was not closed down as soon criticisms popped up. In fact, here's exactly what I said when the first criticisms were posted by WD:

Thanks for fielding peoples' criticisms here Eric. I'm glad you've been so polite given the overly frank way they've directed it at you. WD- you're just shameless [Wink] You should post at Frothers- they're pretty hardcore too. Seriously though, there's no need to literally attack the man! You've got the right to your opinion, and I'm not chiming in one way or another about the dipping thing given my new position. All I'm saying is that you could be a bit nicer about it!

But the argument kept going. Why'd I shut it down? Well I felt that Chucky's attack was just reaching the point of repetitive personal attacks on BTP, for example (emphasis mine):

Your miniatures do look dipped. I also don't care how many times you say they are "carefully glazed" - because they look dipped. If I spend 5 days blending the shoulder pad, and it looks dry brushed, then I might have just dry brushed it.

BTP needs to try something else, because right now, your prices are NOT worth the product. Instead of spending the time trying to claim your stuff is glazed, how about you develop some more techniques.

This was not about BTP being a sponsor, I couldn't care less about that when it comes to my duties as a MOD. This was about someone beating a dead horse and the dead horse on the receiving end of this beating was simply a company representative who was acting very professional in light of the rather inflammatorily phrased comments directed at him. The exact same criticisms pop up over and over again when it comes to BTP and to be honest it's gotten a little old to see them have to fight it off each time.

I would've been fine if Chucky and WD had phrased their comments with politeness (Dakka Rule #1) but they really didn't. I posted half way through the thread requesting people be more polite with their comments as I felt that Eric was unnecessarily under attack.

No one should feel under attack on these forums.

I'm willing to admit that I may have been heavy handed in shutting that thread- but what would leaving it open have contributed to the discussion? Is there really anything Eric can say about BTP's policies that he hasn't said 10 times over? I felt like the thread was degrading into a potential flame war and cut it short. Moreover, Russ has completely supported my decision to do so.

I'm with people questioning me- I'm doing this job for you guys. I love dakka and wanted to help Russ so here I am.

If anyone has a problem with how I've dealt with any situation please feel free to PM me about it.

Sorry it took so long for me to get in on this thread- I should've noticed it earlier.

Marcus Brookshaw

**Mannahnin**

No worries, Marcus. It's cool, and we appreciate the hard work you put in around here. Thanks for being a Mod.

**Hellfury**

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 10/14/2006 3:36 PM
Well I wish I had stumbled on this thread earlier but alas this is the first time I've read it. Although I don't have to, I'd like to defend my decision to close the thread in question since Hellfury has called my decision making in question.

First of all- the thread was not closed down as soon criticisms popped up. In fact, here's exactly what I said when the first criticisms were posted by WD:

Thanks for fielding peoples' criticisms here Eric. I'm glad you've been so polite given the overly frank way they've directed it at you. WD- you're just shameless [Wink] You should post at Frothers- they're pretty hardcore too. Seriously though, there's no need to literally attack the man! You've got the right to your opinion, and I'm not chiming in one way or another about the dipping thing given my new position. All I'm saying is that you could be a bit nicer about it!

But the argument kept going. Why'd I shut it down? Well I felt that Chucky's attack was just reaching the point of repetitive personal attacks on BTP, for example (emphasis mine):

Your miniatures do look dipped. I also don't care how many times you say they are "carefully glazed" - because they look dipped. If I spend 5 days blending the shoulder pad, and it looks dry brushed, then I might have just dry brushed it.

BTP needs to try something else, because right now, your prices are NOT worth the product. Instead of spending the time trying to claim your stuff is glazed, how about you develop some more techniques.

This was not about BTP being a sponsor, I couldn't care less about that when it comes to my duties as a MOD. This was about someone beating a dead horse and the dead horse on the receiving end of this beating was simply a company representative who was acting very professional in light of the rather inflammatorily phrased comments directed at him. The exact same criticisms pop up over and over again when it comes to BTP and to be honest it's gotten a little old to see them have to fight it off each time.

I would've been fine if Chucky and WD had phrased their comments with politeness (Dakka Rule #1) but they really didn't. I posted half way through the thread requesting people be more polite with their comments as I felt that Eric was unnecessarily under attack.

No one should feel under attack on these forums.

I'm willing to admit that I may have been heavy handed in shutting that thread- but what would leaving it open have contributed to the discussion? Is there really anything Eric can say about BTP's policies that he hasn't said 10 times over? I felt like the thread was degrading into a potential flame war and cut it short. Moreover, Russ has completely supported my decision to do so.

I'm with people questioning me- I'm doing this job for you guys. I love dakka and wanted to help Russ so here I am.

If anyone has a problem with how I've dealt with any situation please feel free to PM me about it.

Sorry it took so long for me to get in on this thread- I should've noticed it earlier.

Marcus Brookshaw

There is no reason in the world why you should have to defend your actions as a mod to anyone but Russ. I persoanlly dont care myself. If a thread gets closed before its time due to whatever factors, then a new one can always be started. Its been that way for quite nearly 10 years now. I stated the reasons for restarting the thread so I didnt get comments such as "2.0" left, as he obviously didnt read the whole thing.

If it was a personal jab, I take it to PM's as opposed to spouting it off publicly.

In short I would like to say one reason this site has been so popular in the past, is its lack of draconian moderation.

To paraphrase shakespeare:

No epilogue, I pray you; for your moderation needs no

excuse. Never excuse; for when the threads are all closed there

need none to be blamed. Marry, if he that writ it had played

Whitedragon, and drown'd himself in BTP's brush water, it would have
been a fine tragedy: and so it is, truly; and very notably
discharged. But come, your duty; let your epilogue alone.

**bigchris1313**

Posted By Hellfury on 10/15/2006 10:01 AM

To paraphrase shakespeare:

No epilogue, I pray you; for your moderation needs no

excuse. Never excuse; for when the threads are all closed there

need none to be blamed. Marry, if he that writ it had played

Whitedragon, and drown'd himself in BTP's brush water, it would have
been a fine tragedy: and so it is, truly; and very notably
discharged. But come, your duty; let your epilogue alone.

Midsummers? Good call.

**Drake_Marcus**

It's so hard to resist being draconian when your sign in name is Drake

I do appreciate the suppor though guys, it's good to hear that everyone appreciates my work

**whitedragon**

Actually, the first printing of Midsummer's had that exact line in it. But when Shakespeare realized how much royalties to myself and Blue Table would have been, he changed it to the now famous version.

You can think of the original paragraph as Shakespeare's Director's Cut.

**beef**

Well I never

**malfred**

Shakespeare! The man was a two-penny hack!

I want to be a two-penny hack

**nyarlathotep667**

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 10/15/2006 3:05 PM
It's so hard to resist being draconian when your sign in name is Drake

I do appreciate the suppor though guys, it's good to hear that everyone appreciates my work

Is this an open invitation to flame you? Or are we the ones to be crispy critters?

I'm going to be locked up in the gulag, aren't I?

I'm obviously kidding! While I did think you acted a little harshly there, I otherwise think you've done a pretty good job at modding. Dakka has always had a laid back "live and let live" moderation approach and aside from the occasional hiccup, that hasn't changed. Good work alls of ya!

As far as this thread goes, I think it's done a lot better and I for one am glad Hellfury posted it. While BTP hasn't responded here, others that have purchased and or seen their products have and the tone has been a bit more objective. I'm hoping more who have seen the product in person will weigh in as well as BTP.

**Drake_Marcus**

Of flame me all you want Nyarly- I can give as good as I take

**nyarlathotep667**

Oooh, that's right, fire-drakes have "fire resistance"... how could I forget?!? :p Crap. I can always fling Malfred at ya, that should keep you tied up for abit... now where is Malfred?

**Glaive Company CO**

From what my feeble mind can comprehend of this thread (and the preceeding thread) it seems that the problem isn't whether or not the company uses a specific method such as dipping. The problem is that the company uses dipping, but calls it something else.

I am by no means an expert painter or anything, but I do seem to achieve an above game table level of painting on my minis. Note that this is based on personal experience in my area. I'm sure on a world scale I'm probably below average or even poor. Anyways, I wash my minis. I've always called it washing. My father has always caled it washing and I'm sure whoever he got it from called it washing. I use rubbing alcohol and water color. Not the pre-moistened water colors, but the almost wax/chalky kinds. Then I apply it to the areas of shadow or just brush it into the creases. I use different colors to achieve different effects and I load the brush with more or less pigment to get greater contrast. The whole thing goes pretty quickly, but still takes a while when an entire army is being paited that way.

The first time I ever saw a 'dipped' mini I was floored. The effect is almost exactly the same as what I achieved in a quarter of the time. On a few of my minis the effect was indistingushable from my end results. If you're curious about some of my 'washed' minis:

http://ghostpics.spaces.live.com/PersonalSpace.aspx?_c01_photoalbum=showdefault&_c=photoalbum

The albums are on the left although the 1/4 scale human turned out perfect without washing, glazing, or dipping!

My point is that I don't find it hard to believe that their effect was achieved with a more controlled application even if the end result was similar to the 'dipping' method.