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Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I found in interesting JJ commented on the need to stop tinkering with things and getting points costs correct, and in another breath say Bionics and Purity Seals were taken out of Codex: DA because no one was using them.

Perhaps adjusting the points on those items would have been better than removing them completely...perhaps he should explore the differences between 'modeling aesthetics' and 'overpriced wargear'.

And JJ, if you're out there and being mis-quoted be sure to speak up. I'd hate to hang this all on you if this isn't what you said/meant.

It wasn't the points cost of the item, it was that a rule was being created for an item. A lot of models have both bionics and purity seals, but why do they have to be defined by an in game rule? It never really made sense.

Neither does every space marine with in x radius going ape edited because they see a pretty banner.

In fact, I find the banner less useful than purity seals or bionics, yet the banner stays, because its cool looking.

I see a huge whorl of circular logic encompassing that statement.

The rules are needlessly fiddly and complicated in ways that don't really enhance gameplay while overly simplistic in ways that are utterly slowed.  For some reason it is necessary to have rules for every little scrap of paper, but my tactical squad can't shoot a tank with its lascannon while shooting the guys next to it with their bolters because that would be too complicated and slow down gameplay.

Posted By Hellfury on 04/10/2007 6:02 PM
Neither does every space marine with in x radius going ape edited because they see a pretty banner.

In fact, I find the banner less useful than purity seals or bionics, yet the banner stays, because its cool looking.

I see a huge whorl of circular logic encompassing that statement.

Obviously there is always going to be a subjective decision on the games designer's part over whether something should be an aesthetic choice only or have representation in the rules.

However, according to Jervis he is trying to get the designers to cut down on having a rule for the sake of having a rule and rather only actually have a rule where it is needed.

He said that if anyone is to blame for 40k going down the path of writing rules for the sake of rules, he was to blame. But this is something that he is trying to hold the designers to at this point.

So while a company standard is clearly an aesthetic choice, players can always use 'regular' banners if they want without paying the points. The company standard is a rather symbolic piece of wargear and books/movies always represent models fighting harder to save their banner (think: the Dawn of War intro), so it only makes sense that the banner have some sort of special rules attached to it.

What Jervis didn't like about the bionics/purity seals (for example) was that if players didn't like the rules or the points values for these items, they wouldn't put them on their models, even though they liked the aesthetic value of them.

When it comes to adorning your models he didn't want rules to dictate how you did that, unless it was really necessary (like a weapon or major piece of wargear).

Overall I personally like the concept and I hope they continue to adhere to it in the future.

 

Yep. It seems a much better concept,.. and banners/flags will always be symbolic to an armed fighting force.

"Don't let the colours hit the ground!"

I like the concept of fewer rules as well (with the belief fewer rules should mean fewer problems) but designers are going to be treading the fine line between removing 'aesthetic rules' and removing the unique feel of a chapter or race.

Good intent, but let's see how they follow through...

Posted By yakface on 04/10/2007 9:17 PM

What Jervis didn't like about the bionics/purity seals (for example) was that if players didn't like the rules or the points values for these items, they wouldn't put them on their models, even though they liked the aesthetic value of them.

Or sonic weapons on Emperor's Children vehicles.  Wow, I can swap out my heavy bolters for sonic blasters for free?  Fantastic!  Maybe I would have modeled them as sonic weapons and used "counts as" but now I can't because sonic weapons are an actual (sucky) option.