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Well, we see what Apocalypse means to Orlanth:

Arguments and games ending in tears...

Just kidding.

Last night I thought up a list. a fluffy list.

Daemon Horde of Slaanesh

Consisting of two Daemon Princes of Slaanesh with lash. (assuming lash limits remain)
Greater Daemons of Slaanesh: aka scounts as' with dakkafexes, and flyrant rules
'Possessed' tanks: aka Holofalcons and holo Fire Prisms.

It would be fluffy, every unit woukld be daemonic. Possessed Eldar Grav Tanks make sense. Slaanesh corrupting Eldar being as core storyline. The tanks are possessed by access to the psirit stones. The daemons suck out the eldar spirits and breath in sleeneshi daemons instead.

Its internally consitent and could be made to look good. It would be just about the most borken army you could think of. Unless you added possessed holo super heavys.

Then when you play it and destroy your opponent, you laugh and tell him to take an extra stratagem. Tell my asscannon list I only have 3-4 turns of ammo (seriously, how long could a Baal fire those things - 45 seconds total). It's all about intent. I'm taking the assault cannon because it looks cool, and having heard a large caliber gatling gun fire in person...it makes the coolest sound in the world. I don't want it to be overpowering, so I'd work with my opponent. If it's overpowering, we'd work out the strategems of come up with something like my ammo thing.

We're coming at this from different directions...you are looking at the rules and expecting people to try and "list" each other out. Some games and gamers will do that...more power to them. But I look at it as building a fluff list, finding the matching rules, taking a look at the point differential with my opponent, and figuring out a way to make the unwieldy thing work. Yes, Apocalypse could be uber-cheese if you are playing it strictly competitively (strictly is the key word there...it's OK to be competitive). Like I said before, it's about policing yourselves. I'd rather have that opportunity.

Again, we're evaluating this from different paradigms. Maybe you need better gaming buddies. I don't game enough to know, but if every player is that douchy, maybe I don't need to. I'll assume people want to make cool armies and have fun. When I get competitive, I'll play a sport

And I like your fluff list, Orlanth.  Let me play my 13th Company with Harlequin allies (the enemy [Imperium] of my enemy [Chaos] is my friend...), a chunk of Grey Knight Termies (representing the remaining veteran Adeptus Custodes the Emperor sent with Russ to Prospero - it's in the HH fluff) and a few units of Chaos Renegades who've "seen the light" and turned to the side of angels, and it would be great (GREAT) fun.  You take some warp rifts, I'll take some vortex grenades, and I'll use a few Rune Priests to warp around some Dev squads, and we'll make a day of it.

It's completely insane, but that is the point.  It's so insane, you tweak some of the rules as you go...looking for some balance so both sides have fun.

Win-win...

I think what some people are missing is that playing a game of Apocalypse is like making love.  You don't make love to just any stranger, do you?  No, you make love to someone who you trust.  Who you feel safe being near.  Who you don't worry about being helpless with.  You don't sit down with your partner and lay out rules and regulations and numbers, you agree on a safety word and proceed with the gentle, tender touching.  You don't just worry about winning, you worry about your partner's enjoyment. 

When putting together an army list for Apocalypse, light some candles, pour yourself some wine.  Watch the shadows dance on your miniatures as you start adding up the points.  Make a joke, brush the hair out of your face with your pencil.  Relax.  If you've had a long day, be sure to shower beforehand; your freshness will be noted and appreciated.

When it's game time, don't rush things.  Smile, make eye contact, communicate.  Make sure you and your partner are on the same wavelength, and just relax; tensing up ruins things for everyone.  Don't be afraid to ask for what you want, and listen to your partner.  At the end, be courteous and be sure to clean up at least your portion of the mess, and mayhaps, your partner's as well.

I don't wanna make love to my models though, it might mess up the paint jobs

Note to self.... Don't play Apocalypse with Iorek.

Orlanth,

Your 6 Falcons won't do squat when my Vortex grenade lands on them... Keep in mind that your opponent will be able to take enough stuff to combat your 6 falcons of doom. Hell, the Baneblade's main cannon could destroy a few with one shot (depending on if the Auto-Pen from the "D" strength weapon ignores the "moving fast" rule).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

EDIT:

I should probably answer the OP's question.  For me, it means using my entire 5th Company of Dark Angels with support from the Deathwing and Ravenwing and 10th Company.  My buddy has the entire 3rd company of Dark Angels so together we would have nearly 300 marines and 16-20,000 points.  Several others in our gaming group play Orks.  I'm anticipating a huge slugfest of hundreds, maybe over a thousand Orks vs 300 Space Marines (where have I heard of that before...).

It means playing a game of 40k with 40k points on the table.

See, now we're talking.

How about different scenarios? The Tau Pathfinder army (pathfinders, stealth teams, etc.) that has to take out the baneblade (guarded by a small unit of stormtroopers--or is it?). The Inquisitorial strike team with Dark Eldar/Eldar Pirate allies that has to take and hold...an Eldar Webway portal. The IG Recce team (Salamanders, Sentinels, a few chimera-mounted grenadiers) finding the wreck of a space hulk--which just happens to be the beachhead for an ork/tyranid/chaos invasion. Or maybe they're just backup for a survey team that's exploring an artifact--that happens to be a Necron Pylon (guarded by a couple of Monoliths and a horde of tomb spyders).

Getting rid of FOC and freeing the game from equal point values also frees the players to do something other than rank up forces on opposite sides and start rolling dice like Yahtzee. Add dusk-and-dawn and a few other little bits (perhaps the Necron Pylon is discovered in a ruined Eldar city? Hey, now we can use CITIES OF DEATH rules!) and we've got a game, not just dice rolling around toy soldiers.

Posted By Necros on 08/23/2007 9:12 AM
I don't wanna make love to my models though, it might mess up the paint jobs

That isn't 'Ard Coat...

To me, Apocalypse means lazy game developer.

"Hey all, why don't you buy twice as many minis as you have now, and a $50 book on top, then mash it all together on the table and fudge the rules, cos who wants to worry about rules!"

Do GW developers have any professional pride at all?

Wow, so I could actually play my fluff of my marine chapter where they split up and the "good" guys joined the Tau, and they always get visited by the Harlequins?

Oh, I would need a Tau army and some Harlequins.  Hmmm..

This get my juices flowing.  Anyone need some models varnished?

Posted By Xerxes on 08/23/2007 1:39 PM
To me, Apocalypse means lazy game developer.

"Hey all, why don't you buy twice as many minis as you have now, and a $50 book on top, then mash it all together on the table and fudge the rules, cos who wants to worry about rules!"

Do GW developers have any professional pride at all?

Here we go all over again

After Codex: Renegade (not starring Lorenzo Lamas), I'm all for giving the design team a couple days off.

there are some great ideas in this thread, and i feel like some people will get a lot out of Apoc, but others may pass on it, which is cool.


I was thinking about combining elements of combat patrol and apoc. in one big game.

think about setting up a huge table with one team's forces set up in deffensive postions around one central objective, like an HQ. Give the deffending team 20 minutes to set up half of their forces in deffensive positions anywhere on the board and let them use the Brute rules. He can spend points on things like gun emplacements, mine fields, bunkers, artileray strikes, etc.

The other half of their forces start in reserve.

The attacker gets to deploy any infiltrators/commandos on the board and they can move around like kill teams trying to get into position to call in deepstrikers, bombardments, turn off deffensive gun emplacments, locate minefields, take out artillary batteries, etc.

If the deffenders squads acting as brutes spot the infiltrators then the alarm is sounded and they can play and fight like normal, with reseverves coming in over the next two turns.

the attacker must try and achieve his objectives or he can call in his forces at any time, and all his forces come on in the next turn as they have been waiting to attack.

you could vary this idea with more points for attackers but giving the deffenders more strategic assets or just flat out making up rules for a base, like giving it the ability to shoot at deepstrikers as if it had mystics, or a 3+ cover save, or gun emplacements, fearless units inside it, etc.

Stuff like that would be so fun. You could play a narrative game where the abilities of units really come into the foreground. Infiltrators will actually do what they are meant to do, not just set up a turn one or two charge, deepstrikers play a huge role but would enter into play unsupported, mech units move faster, scouts actually scout things, artillary is actually used in a realistic fashion.

I think it opens the doors to player's immaginations.

If you want to be a cheese donkey you can, but dont expect to play with my club. Powergaming is for competetive play where it belongs, IMHO, not stuff like apocolypse.

I now know what Apoc means to me:

Armies of 40 Falcons w/Holo-Fields (difficult to kill), acting as flyers (hit on 6), that can only be glanced (moving fast), with bright lances and pulse lasers (average 3 S8 Lance shots per tank).

And they can deep strike. Multiple times.

Way to go GW balance!

BYE

I wish I could revile to you all what Apocalypse means to me but I am swan to secrecy.

What does Apocalypse mean? Painting a Titan and playing games of 40K with it.

Hey all.

Does this mean there are REAVER titan rules in Apoc? I may be ignorant of previous comments, so I would love to know!! I have a Reaver and a Warhound, and I would love to inc. in any game I play with Apoc. Warhounds are cheap A$$ to put on the field, I know I would rather have 1 of them compared to 3 Land Raiders.

PS I read an interesting Fluff piece recently that said a dude responsible for its success in the Imperium had the last name of "Land". I always used to wonder why they were named the way they were.........

From what I've heard there will be rules for Warhound and Warlord Titans in Apocalypse, but not Reaver Titans. That said, finding a happy medium between the two existing titan rules should give you pretty good Reaver stats.

what apocolypse does for me?

lets me put my now illegal(thanks to the new dex) tournament level ravenwing list back on the table with everything else i have which is 5,000 points of dark angels and even a titan if i want to push 6K

Money.

It means fun and madness back into games.

It means buying more GW stuff atlast and feeling kiddy with the new goodies again

It means sorting out more dakkaites I'd never bother playing against !

It means going back to things as they were when I started and fell in love with the whole hobby.

it meens being able to field my 4 titans, 1 baneblade and 2 (unofficial Tank conversion baneblade) plus my massive SW army I might even buy some Gundam models and use them as eldar titans.

its a game for those who dont want to paint or play competeively while they make gt's and gd's for the "pro" level players

For me it meens ork dread mobs mixed with speed freaks, always losing horribally but never caring, stompas (at last), showing of conversions and generally having a good time. mixing my orks with dark eldar when playing cheese, just to smash them