Voodoo Boyz wrote:

That Sucks, and all to stop Dakka Fex's. What a bad way to do things.

Agreed. A better way to fix it would be to errata the nid codex until a V5 nid codex is printed.

I know that wont happen, but it is easier than an across the board nerf bat.

Naa, like I said, GW is just making MC's what they're supposed to be...

CC terrors that CAN shoot. Not shooters that are more effective out of CC.

Ghidorah wrote:However, the bit about shooting through 2" of cover seems a little goofy. Why would a guy in the open get a cover save because you are shooting through 2" of cover? Makes no sense.

Makes alot of sense actually.

Your still shooting through an obstacle. Hence the chance that the target may receive a cover save.

I am beginning to wonder if the guy who sent that Email to the D6 Generation really did know what they were talking about when he said that GW was looking through other companies rules for good ideas for 5th ed 40K.

Because this is done in two other fairly popular wargames that are still being published and the people who play those games dont seem to have a problem in the slightest with how cover works in this way.

Hellfury wrote:

I am beginning to wonder if the guy who sent that Email to the D6 Generation really did know what they were talking about when he said that GW was looking through other companies rules for good ideas for 5th ed 40K.

Because this is done in two other fairly popular wargames that are still being published and the people who play those games dont seem to have a problem in the slightest with how cover works in this way.

How about that....

Andy Chambers is still writing the rules!

Noone is forcing you to buy new models, but this hobby is entertainment, entertainment frequently requires you to throw money at it to continue to be entertained. Were you complaining this much when you had to buy a new playstation or xbox after they made improvements and created a new advanced console in the newest version? Did you complain every time a new LotR movie cam out? It's the same thing. If you want to enjoy this hobby to the utmost, you cannot expect to spend your money, and then be done. Never again having to spend money....you're not really that daft I'm sure.

New console versions are, you know, actually upgraded. If MS/sony decided to just fry all the current consoles who are hooked up online, forcing the owners to buy a new system, you'd have a better comparison. It wouldn't have to fry the whole system; just give the user less satisfaction like the MC change does. And here I'll expect people to say MS forces you to do this annually with the 360's red ring.

Its not about Nids losing firepower, its about the "character" of a Monstrous Creature...what they're supposed to do in-game.

Thank you for telling us what Monstrous Creatures are supposed to do. As I recall, GW decided to make them shooty monsters of death - at least temporarily. I'm sorry if that didn't fit with your idea of what a monstrous creature does.

GW invalidating entire armies with changes to the general rules? How does this surprise anyone?

On the bright side however, atleast they're not blowing smoke up our asses like they did with 4th Ed, promising how our armies would remain valid and wouldn't have to be changed, yadda, yadda, yadda.

BYE

Hellfury wrote:I am beginning to wonder if the guy who sent that Email to the D6 Generation really did know what they were talking about when he said that GW was looking through other companies rules for good ideas for 5th ed 40K.

Turnabout would be fair play, wouldn't it?

dienekes96 wrote:

Hellfury wrote:I am beginning to wonder if the guy who sent that Email to the D6 Generation really did know what they were talking about when he said that GW was looking through other companies rules for good ideas for 5th ed 40K.

Turnabout would be fair play, wouldn't it?

I suppose it might.

I could split hairs over that, but after thinking about it in the grand scheme of things, all I want is a competent rules set for the dollies I love to move around the table. I really don't care how it happens, so long as it does.

stonefox wrote:
New console versions are, you know, actually upgraded. If MS/sony decided to just fry all the current consoles who are hooked up online, forcing the owners to buy a new system, you'd have a better comparison. It wouldn't have to fry the whole system; just give the user less satisfaction like the MC change does. And here I'll expect people to say MS forces you to do this annually with the 360's red ring.

...and possibly the "more satisfaction" you're talking about is Monstrous Creatures and the effect they have on the game being adjusted as a part of making the entire game to run smoother and more fairly. Hence, an improvement overall.

Thats another way of looking at it. One that big bug players are blind to, since their 'easy' army is no longer so 'easy' to play.

stonefox wrote:
Thank you for telling us what Monstrous Creatures are supposed to do.

You're welcome.

Deadshane1 wrote:
Thats another way of looking at it. One that big bug players are blind to, since their 'easy' army is no longer so 'easy' to play.

Er... Once again, i DO NOT PLAY NIDZILLA. My army is NOT EASY TO PLAY. I am using Warriors, Biovores and Lictors. And still i complain about this stupid new rule. Not because it nerfs Nidzilla (which is a good thing) but because it nerfs my BALANCED army and it was neither the only nor the best way to nerf Nidzilla.

Stingray_tm wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:
Thats another way of looking at it. One that big bug players are blind to, since their 'easy' army is no longer so 'easy' to play.

Er... Once again, i DO NOT PLAY NIDZILLA. My army is NOT EASY TO PLAY. I am using Warriors, Biovores and Lictors. And still i complain about this stupid new rule. Not because it nerfs Nidzilla (which is a good thing) but because it nerfs my BALANCED army and it was neither the only nor the best way to nerf Nidzilla.

Settle down, I wasnt referring to you specifically.

You DID know that you arent the only 'Nid player out there didnt you? There are lots of players that play specifically Zilla lists, those are the peeps I was referring to. I'm not trying to PICK on you.

Well you make it sound, that every Nid player out there uses Nidzilla and they got what they deserved. I haven't met many Nidzilla players in real life, but almost every player i know, who uses MCs specializes them for shooting, because you need to specialize with Nids.

And if i complain about the nerf, your answer is: "Nidzilla deserfs it", totally ignoring my points, that balanced players are getting nerfed aswell and that there are better solutions to the problem.

@Deadshane1 : if you have spent months to paint a fex like I do below and want to see him in action ,then do a good job ,not just waste up points, I doubt you would keep up your opinion

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img460672c9a83ae.jpg

and if you got this kind painting skill ,I doubt you would say it's easy to pull off a arm and just repaint it or sth.

and you hate nids zilla list ,ok . I dont lilke it either, but you dont paint a single carnifex or tyrant do you ? you dont play a single one of them do you? and how could you just imagine every nids player who's brought a zilla to his list is some kind fXXk up powergamer? deserve nothing but crapy rules ?

and why should every player play the fluff that way ? especially that's just someone's imagination ,why cant people use their own imaginations to build their own army?

so please if you see someone's feeling got hurt ,dont laugh at or clap ok?


btw, I knew they would nerf zilla some day ,so I made my fex's arm changeable

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img4606775de0b3c.jpg

but just feel sorry for other nids player,who spent tones of time to convert and paint a gunfex.

Deadshane1 wrote:Naa, like I said, GW is just making MC's what they're supposed to be...

CC terrors that CAN shoot. Not shooters that are more effective out of CC.

Except that Carnifexes aren't CC terrors unless you kit them out a LOT for CC. The point remains that you fix army lists by fixing army lists and not amending main rules. But as we all know, it's *bizarrely* easier for GW to change the main rules than to change an army list.

Honestly, I'll still probably give them two guns, or none at all. If you take a VC or BS Carnifex for ranged support, how much benefit is a set of scything talons? You might as well take a set of devourers in case a different type of target presents itself.

Fantastic paintjob there, dude!

ED209 wrote:@Deadshane1 : if you have spent months to paint a fex like I do below and want to see him in action ,then do a good job ,not just waste up points, I doubt you would keep up your opinion

You guys are acting like you're the only ones ever to have lost well painted units to rules changes, I've got news for you....

You arent.

Doesn't make it any better! In fact it makes it even worse!

Deadshane, you got that right. There are thousands of people in the same position. Guess what? Every one of them has a right to complain. (Including you if you should wish to, since I assume you're one of them.) Whether their complaining is of any use is another matter, but regardless, your "suck it up and deal" attitude is misplaced.

ED209 wrote:

and if you got this kind painting skill ,I doubt you would say it's easy to pull off a arm and just repaint it or sth.

I do, and I do.

ED209 wrote:

and you hate nids zilla list ,ok . I dont lilke it either, but you dont paint a single carnifex or tyrant do you ? you dont play a single one of them do you? and how could you just imagine every nids player who's brought a zilla to his list is some kind fXXk up powergamer? deserve nothing but crapy rules ?

Actually, I've painted two FULL tyranid armies in the past, I know your pain. This is all 'crying' plain and simple. If you know anything about GW's practices, you know that rules will change and certain selections will become sub-par or even unusable. Get used to it, or dont, and simply quit playing.

ED209 wrote:

so please if you see someone's feeling got hurt ,dont laugh at or clap ok?

instead I'm supposed to boo-hoo for them when my own tanks cannot move and shoot all of their str 6 and below weapons. (my pred destructors in my DA army) Negative. You deal with new rulesets and adjust your play style, its part of this hobby. Get over yourselves. You dont hear me crying, am I disappointed? Sure I am, but its the nature of the beast. I'm not going to threaten to quit the hobby yet keep posting negative comments online. If I got as upset as some people about these rule (not necessarily singling YOU out here stingray), I'd be gone....without a peep here. Just vanish.

ED209 wrote:


but just feel sorry for other nids player,who spent tones of time to convert and paint a gunfex.

Nope, since I also spend tons of time painting well painted models that rules change on.

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW invalidating entire armies with changes to the general rules? How does this surprise anyone?

On the bright side however, atleast they're not blowing smoke up our asses like they did with 4th Ed, promising how our armies would remain valid and wouldn't have to be changed, yadda, yadda, yadda.

BYE

Give them a little while. I'm sure that will come.

I would not like it if MC's could not shoot two weapons.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Deadshane, you got that right. There are thousands of people in the same position. Guess what? Every one of them has a right to complain. (Including you if you should wish to, since I assume you're one of them.) Whether their complaining is of any use is another matter, but regardless, your "suck it up and deal" attitude is misplaced.

It's whining. Period. None of this is going to ruin the game.

Discussion is fine, disagreeing with rules changes is fine, but give me a REAL reason why you disagree. Complaining that rules are wrong because people are now going to have to change their army lists is whining. That has nothing at all to do with whether or not the rules are more balanced or better. It's whining that you have to spend more money on your entertainment. Something that all of us here do.

My "suck it up and deal" attitude is actually spot on.

So you are basically whining, that people are whining? Doesn't make sense to me.

And it is a valid reason to complain about changing MODELS (not an army list MODELS), especially if you can think of another solution, that gets done what was supposed to be achieved, WITHOUT having these changes.

oops so you are not as happy as your Avatar shows , then my bad

Stingray_tm wrote:So you are basically whining, that people are whining? Doesn't make sense to me.

And it is a valid reason to complain about changing MODELS (not an army list MODELS), especially if you can think of another solution, that gets done what was supposed to be achieved, WITHOUT having these changes.

I'm not 'whining' that people are whining, I'm making fun of them....there is a difference.

Is it valid if the rules on the whole are more balanced and fair? I dont think so. The tyranid codex is hit hardest by this rules change, that is for the sake of the game as a WHOLE. Sorry you have to change up your armies, but we have a more balanced game now. Sure this is a dicey claim, but it makes sense assuming that it was the INTENT. If monstrous creatures firing two weapons was considered by the designers as unneeded or unbalancing, it makes sense to change the rule. Perhaps the MC players dont agree (not surprising), but the "I have to change my army now" arguement has NOTHING to do with game balance or fairness. Give me a real reason why they should have kept it the way it was....and "Tyranids need it for their shooting game" wont work, there have been competetive 'Nid armies around for years, and many of them dont have MC's wielding two ranged weapons.

ED209 wrote:@Deadshane1 : if you have spent months to paint a fex like I do below and want to see him in action ,then do a good job ,not just waste up points, I doubt you would keep up your opinion

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img460672c9a83ae.jpg

and if you got this kind painting skill ,I doubt you would say it's easy to pull off a arm and just repaint it or sth.

and you hate nids zilla list ,ok . I dont lilke it either, but you dont paint a single carnifex or tyrant do you ? you dont play a single one of them do you? and how could you just imagine every nids player who's brought a zilla to his list is some kind fXXk up powergamer? deserve nothing but crapy rules ?

and why should every player play the fluff that way ? especially that's just someone's imagination ,why cant people use their own imaginations to build their own army?

so please if you see someone's feeling got hurt ,dont laugh at or clap ok?


btw, I knew they would nerf zilla some day ,so I made my fex's arm changeable

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img4606775de0b3c.jpg

but just feel sorry for other nids player,who spent tones of time to convert and paint a gunfex.

I'm not seeing the terrible tragedy for VC/BS gunfexes just yet anyway? AV14, shooting the BS at it is kind of meh. A unit of Boyz, shooting the VC at it is kind of meh and you just got a nice boost to your strangler.

Opentopped vehicles the VC isn't so bad either?

sorry having net probs, dbl post.

I think it is pointless to really argue the MC change because we don't know what the context is yet.

Can Monstrous Creatures fire both weapons if they stand still?

The problem with these rumors is that they are just cursory glances at the rule book. The -1 no argument cover rule is a prime example that complaining about a rule taken out of context is pointless.

All I know is that Stealer Shock is going to be undergoing a bit of retooling once 5th ed comes out. It's actually going to be quite difficult to retool the two Hive Tyrants and Carnfexes I've converted, and I'm not sure if I even want to. (Especially on my winged tyrant - "Counts As" will likely rear its ugly head".) But even my HS carnis are converted so that there's a gun on each side, with proper feeder tubes and everything. Lots of finnicky work to change them.

The thing I'm most worried about is the scoring units thing: (Only infantry troop units? Screw ravenwing, Saim-hann, etc.) I really, really, really hope that its "infantry OR troops.

The skimmer cover save thing is disturbing as well.

Vandez wrote:

Fallen668 wrote:

Blast Weapons:
Blast weapons don't roll to hit, but always scatter D6" minus the BS of the firer. ~Yikes, watch out for Dark Reaper Exarchs!
All models under a blast template (including partials) are automatically hit.

o_O

Holy crapmonkeys of doom, that's bad news for my Boyz.